Sub predictions for Q2, 2013

[Slappers]

No one is saying subscription loss is ok. Not one single person. No one. The point is even with losses the game is still pushing forward and not dead not even close not even by a long shot. Considering EQ1 is going on 15 years and its 19th expansion with significantly less than 8.3 million subscribers I think Wow will do just fine. That is the point you people continually willfully miss and refuse to consider.

I've seen people defend it, nobody from Blizz obviously, but posters. Not like you read my post properly either, I wasn't saying WoW is dying at all, I asked if it's evolving fast enough, that's not even a statement, more something to ask yourself. I think WoW will last and evolve till Blizz takes down the servers.

[xanzul]

I'm sorry but I cannot write every single post with Will Xanzul take this wrong way in mind.



You know you don't have to read these threads? No one is forcing you to, in fact I'm pretty sure had the people arguing on Blizzard's behalf had not posted in this thread it would have dropped off of the front page long ago.

Here is the thing: every other thread on this forum is generally started by someone trying to stir the pot by calling the game crap or calling the devs out or generally insulting anyone who dares like Wow still. I think people have every right to be fed up with it. Don't like it? Too god damn bad.

---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 11:42 AM ----------

You could say the same about all of the threads on this site.

This thread is about predicting the sub numbers for Q2 of course many people will get it wrong if you look at the thread for Q1 the majority of people thought it would be no higher than 300k.

Like it or not WOW is not in good shape, should we just ignore that or should we discuss what we think is behind it? Surely by discussing the problems we perceive with WOW we can give Blizzard a better idea of how the player base feels and how they can deal with it?

Well you've got two extra posts out of this very page so don't knock it.

Like I said from the start this thread isn't about predictions. Blizzard flat out straight up said there WILL be more losses. There is no prediction to be had especially given the choice in the poll was either gains or losses. This is a hater circle jerk and nothing more and everyone knows it. Stop pretending to be objective because we all know you are full of shit.

---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 11:43 AM ----------

Any business or product that is losing customers and has been doing so for over two years is not in good shape regardless of how large it is. If the losses continue at the current rate, although they will slow down at some point, WOW will have less players than Eve in two years time that is a truly frightening prospect.

That is my point as soon as a thread like this pops up it is immediately jumped on by people that feel they have to defend Blizzard but don't get me wrong I do think that part of the point of this thread was to get that reaction.

And my point is simply because you hate the game and don't understand and can't comprehend why people disagree doesn't change the fact that people still do like Wow.

[Zdrasti]

Here is the thing: every other thread on this forum is generally started by someone trying to stir the pot by calling the game crap or calling the devs out or generally insulting anyone who dares like Wow still. I think people have every right to be fed up with it. Don't like it? Too god damn bad.

And if you're tired of people whining, too god damn bad for you too =) That river of tears flows both ways

[Pann]

Here is the thing: every other thread on this forum is generally started by someone trying to stir the pot by calling the game crap or calling the devs out or generally insulting anyone who dares like Wow still. I think people have every right to be fed up with it. Don't like it? Too god damn bad.

If you know that the thread is started to cause trouble why rise to the bait? So what is if someone calls the game crap or calls out the devs, how does that affect you? Do you react like this with other products what if someone wearing Adidas called Nike crap? Or a Pepsi drinker calling out the makers of Coke? Seriously if people's opinion of a product you enjoy bothers you that much it is you that has the problem not them.

[xanzul]

The ENTIRE point of this thread was to get that reaction, nothing about this thread is constructive or trying to solve any problems at all.

And sadly the mods will leave threads like this open while banning the people who start them. That says it all. They know certain people post here to stir up shit and refuse to perm ban them and refuse to properly moderate the forums and wonder why people start raging at the sheer number of these idiotic threads. It is at the point where I think this site needs to lose its official fan site status and everything that entails. Without Blizzard backing it up it would be curious to see how relevant it stays when people who enjoy Blizzard games are routinely harassed and chased out of here.

---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 11:54 AM ----------

Yeah because talking on one of many WoW fanforums is going to solve problems... :P

Mindless unmitigated hate solves nothing especially when malcontents direct it at the people who still like this game and have a reason to want to see it continue to thrive. People like you just want to see Blizzard and this game burn and nothing else and to hell with anyone who thinks differently than you.

---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 11:59 AM ----------

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. The fact is that these boards are full of people from all over the world all with different outlooks, ages, etc and it is inevitable that some people will want to discuss things that others do not. Problems arise when the people that do not want to discuss a certain subject decide that others should not discuss it either, as you can see from this thread there are individuals that are clearly not happy with it instead of just ignoring it which would result in the thread dropping off of the first page they post multiple times thus extending the life of the thread. Would you expect someone to sit there screaming at the television that the program showing was crap or to change the channel?



It cannot do any harm.

The majority of people who are unhappy with a service just stop using it they do not tell the business why. Blizzard have a fantastic resource in these and forums like them in which people will gladly give up their time to talk about, in detail, what they like and dislike about WOW.

Yes a lot of people have different opinions of this game. The problem is haters like you refuse to accept people quit the game for any other reason than it is "crap". If you are going to defend opinions then you are a hypocrite for attacking those who point out people dislike the game for reasons other than yours.

---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 12:08 PM ----------

Good for you? I'm very neutral when it comes to hating or liking WoW. I'm just a guy who played a lot of different MMOs and gives every new one a try.

Personally I don't think it's fair or even has much use to compare subscriber numbers between MMOs when most MMOs out there don't bother trying to release outside the West (US, EU, Australia). And then to use the subscriber numbers as a measurement of quality is when it gets completely ridiculous.

Let me point out what is wrong with the following statement:

"WoW is the best, because we have 8,3M subscribers!"

1. "WoW is the best": Very subjective. It has smooth and very responsive controls and sure does offer a lot of things. But on the side of graphics and gameplay diversity or even quest and leveling quality it falls short compared to more recent MMOs. It also offers a decent endgame, but not the best end-game or best raiding scene that is available on the market right now.

2. "Because we have 8,3M subscribers": Only because they forcefully made the game have a global coverage. Most modern MMOs that people think try to compete with WoW or try to compare with WoW aren't even reachable for 90% of the market that WoW covers. Once again, it's pointless to compare MMOs when WoW has a global coverage and has subscriber numbers inflated by a few million chinese, while other games like GW2 and Rift don't even try to branch out into Russia or the middle-east, let alone Asia... Furthermore quality is definitely not defined by subscriber numbers or viewers... since if that was the case then Honey Boo Boo child would've been one of the best TV shows of the decade and Pewdiepie is the best Youtube channel ever...

It's why I find the 8,3M number ... very dumb and pointless when used to compare with other MMOs. And why Blizzard should post regional sub numbers, or people should only use the regional estimates if they want to compare WoW with other MMOs.

But hey, nice to see you play on Silvermoon EU by the way. I was a founding member of Inner Sanctum for many years...

How the fuck are you neutral? Despite how fucked up moderation on this site is we can still see your post history. We can still see you have a hardon for hating on Wow. You aren't neutral and you thrive on negative Wow threads and you do your best to contribute as much toxicity and negativity as possible. You are nothing but a hater who can't handle the fact Blizzard isn't on its knees begging you to come back and that they will do anything for you if you do. It is pathetic and sickening honestly the way you and others on this site behave. People like you have NO interest in Wow improving or if people are having fun with the game they pay for. You want it gone because YOU personally have decided because the game isn't good enough for YOU that NO ONE should be able to play it.

[Pann]

Yes a lot of people have different opinions of this game. The problem is haters like you refuse to accept people quit the game for any other reason than it is "crap". If you are going to defend opinions then you are a hypocrite for attacking those who point out people dislike the game for reasons other than yours.

Haters like me?!? Seriously how old are you?! Having a negative opinion about certain directions the game has taken does not mean I hate the game nor have I ever said that it is crap, again, this goes back to actually reading peoples' posts.. you should try it sometime. I fully accept the opinions of others even if I disagree with them perhaps you could offer your own opinion as to why people left the game at a rate of roughly 14k per day last quarter?

[xanzul]

Why? He is right. There is a reason why Blizzard NEVER releases regional info. All the people would see that WoW isn't all that popular in the west anymore and hasn't been for quite some time.

Personally, my enjoyment of the game doesn't correlate to the sub numbers, as long as I have enough people to raid with.

The fact that Blizzard profits are up proves loss of Asian subscriptions didn't hurt the bottom line. I mean you haters love to talk about how Asians players pay pennies on the dollar. It sucks when your own words and agenda come back to haunt you doesn't it?

[mvaliz]

Good god NO ONE can possibly be this dense.

I said no less than three different times in this thread alone (not to mention more than a few others where you spread the same erroneous information) that Blizzard only announces sub numbers when expansions are released or shareholder calls. How the fuck is linking me an announcement less than a week after Mop release prove me wrong in the slightest? What the fuck is wrong with you? Seriously?

Ummmmm.... because it proves you wrong because that press release was NOT a shareholder announcement, as the shareholder announcement was November 7th?

Seriously, let me break this down for you:

Sept 25th - MoP release
Sept 30th - Q3 officially ends
Oct 7th - Blizz press release - Subs back up to 10 mil -
Nov 6th - Q3 shareholder announcement - re-states that subs are 10 mil.

I can't make that ANY simpler for you...

The voracity of your language, coupled with that you waited 24 hours to respond, and the DESPERATE attempt to completely re-write your point betrays how wrong you know you are.

And, as somebody else provided a link above, another press release was put out BEFORE Cataclysm's release of the subscription milestone of 12 million, and that was on October 7th - one month BEFORE that quarterly report and TWO months before Cataclysm.

Again, let me break this down for you:

Sept 30th, 2010 - Q3 officially ends
Oct 7, 2010 - Blizz press release of up to 12 million
Nov, 2010 - Q3 Shareholder report - re-stating 12 million
Dec 7, 2010 - Cataclysm release date.

Dude... it's 100% proof against what you said. You saying it's "Wrong" doesn't make it wrong... It's right there in PURE BLIZZARD PUBLISHED BLUE WORDS!!!

To answer your line "Good god, nobody can be this dense" - please look into a mirror. It's right there in BLIZZARD'S OWN WORDS - and you're saying "No, it's not". How is that not dense?

[xanzul]

I've seen people defend it, nobody from Blizz obviously, but posters. Not like you read my post properly either, I wasn't saying WoW is dying at all, I asked if it's evolving fast enough, that's not even a statement, more something to ask yourself. I think WoW will last and evolve till Blizz takes down the servers.

And yet if you check around on official forums and here you will see people only bring up subscriber count to say the game isn't dead in response to people saying the game is dead. No one is defending subscriber loss here. It is flat out trolling to say that is what is happening.

[vindicatorx]

Do the subs usually rise when new patches are released? Why (in your opinion) did the the subs fall so low after a new patch was released?

it's a patch usually not enough to bring people back unless it's the last one. Why do I think that? I used common sense is why.

[Drakesong]

I see a lot of fanboys asking "why is this relevant". They are just trying to be blind in face of the entire situation

First of, less subscriptions means less income, which can result in less financial power in order to keep blizzard developing content.
Second, despite the oficial excuse that the subs are dropping because the game is old (just like they said in Q1 that the subs dropped because of diablo, yeah...), the subs drops only refflect the bad quality of the game right now. Countless threads reminding of big problems, such as Daily burnout, gating, realm population issues, etc, and blizzard just remains iddle, giving excuses instead of solutions.

[Deleted]

Lol@people choosing higher.
Blizzard themselves said the sub numbers were going to sink again.
At least in the past they tried to make up an excuse and look forward to the next quarter, this time they didn't even bother.
It means another big drop is going to happen (because they already see it in their data)

[Huehuecoyotl]

And right on queue another hater joins the pile.

very good analysis of my point. you have certainly dissected my argument and managed to refute every detail with both logic and style.

or, as usually happens, you just launch insults at anyone whose viewpoints disagrees with you, without adding to the discussion at all.

are you related to that woman from the recent Kitchen Nightmares show by any chance?

[Granyala]

The fact that Blizzard profits are up proves loss of Asian subscriptions didn't hurt the bottom line. I mean you haters love to talk about how Asians players pay pennies on the dollar.

Oh yeah the release of "Star Craft II - Heart of the Swarm" surely didn't bring in any profits at all so it must all be from WoW.

Subscription revenue is DOWN.
Net profit (Including game sales) are UP.

And yes, since Asians pay far less than Europeans / Americans, them leaving doesn't hurt Blizzards finances as much as if they were "western players".
Still such a big sub dip is bad PR, as you can clearly see all over this and the battle.net forums.

It sucks when your own words and agenda come back to haunt you doesn't it?

I have no agenda. If I had one, it would be to strengthen WoW any way I can, because I still love the game.

[BenBos]

Good for you? I'm very neutral when it comes to hating or liking WoW. I'm just a guy who played a lot of different MMOs and gives every new one a try.

Personally I don't think it's fair or even has much use to compare subscriber numbers between MMOs when most MMOs out there don't bother trying to release outside the West (US, EU, Australia). And then to use the subscriber numbers as a measurement of quality is when it gets completely ridiculous.

Let me point out what is wrong with the following statement:

"WoW is the best, because we have 8,3M subscribers!"

1. "WoW is the best": Very subjective. It has smooth and very responsive controls and sure does offer a lot of things. But on the side of graphics and gameplay diversity or even quest and leveling quality it falls short compared to more recent MMOs. It also offers a decent endgame, but not the best end-game or best raiding scene that is available on the market right now.

2. "Because we have 8,3M subscribers": Only because they forcefully made the game have a global coverage. Most modern MMOs that people think try to compete with WoW or try to compare with WoW aren't even reachable for 90% of the market that WoW covers. Once again, it's pointless to compare MMOs when WoW has a global coverage and has subscriber numbers inflated by a few million chinese, while other games like GW2 and Rift don't even try to branch out into Russia or the middle-east, let alone Asia... Furthermore quality is definitely not defined by subscriber numbers or viewers... since if that was the case then Honey Boo Boo child would've been one of the best TV shows of the decade and Pewdiepie is the best Youtube channel ever...

It's why I find the 8,3M number ... very dumb and pointless when used to compare with other MMOs. And why Blizzard should post regional sub numbers, or people should only use the regional estimates if they want to compare WoW with other MMOs.

But hey, nice to see you play on Silvermoon EU by the way. I was a founding member of Inner Sanctum for many years...

I find it very "dumb" to compare these 8.3 million subs with games ...which have ZERO subs...

Zero as in nada, noight, null, nill, ...

People are STILL not awake yet. As of June 2013 there will be 2 massive subscription based games: WoW and Eve ...all the rest is hanging on life support ... Subscription wise.

THAT's the NEW reality.

[mvaliz]

The fact that Blizzard profits are up proves loss of Asian subscriptions didn't hurt the bottom line. I mean you haters love to talk about how Asians players pay pennies on the dollar.

Blizzard/ACTIVISION profits... not just "Blizzard" profits.

Activision does have QUITE a few more popular things that brings in more money than just WoW - such as Skylanders.

[ringpriest]

I think WoW is doing fine. If WoW is "not in good shape". What state is EVE in, with 500k subs?

It hasn't lost over 10% of it's subscribers in a single quarter, nor almost 20% of it's subscribers in under a year.

[Galaddriel]

Benbos is going to chase that sub model all the way down - he'll be swirling around the drain yelling "It's better because it has suuuuubs!!!"

[Zdrasti]

I find it very "dumb" to compare these 8.3 million subs with games ...which have ZERO subs...

Zero as in nada, noight, null, nill, ...

People are STILL not awake yet. As of June 2013 there will be 2 massive subscription based games: WoW and Eve ...all the rest is hanging on life support ... Subscription wise.

THAT's the NEW reality.

Eve is a good game (good enough that I give them my money), but it's subscription base is far from massive.

[dacoolist]

Lower. Just not as drastic as the last. Not that I care anyway. I'm still enjoying myself.

I agree 100%. I could play wow with 1,000,000 and still be 100% Happy. I'm glad people are leaving