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  1. #1
    Bloodsail Admiral Master Jinora's Avatar
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    Was Stalin both most evil person on earth, and modern civlizations savior?

    Title says it all. If Russia had fallen, germany would have had room to finish what they started in the battle of britain, and perform the necessary acts to bring about the end of the RAF, the royal navy, and Operation Sea Lion.

    The big question, after the millions he slew in his purges, does his leadership on the battlefield across eastern europe, and crushing hitler make up for his brutal noose he held on his own people? Is he just entirely evil? I do not believe russia could have defeated the hitler without his cruelty, and stomach for casualties. Infact, if you were a soldier and encircled, you needed to fight until the bitter end, if you broke out? You were shot.

    So tell me MMO-Champion, what do you think about this?
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  2. #2
    If # of deaths is the sole criteria, I doubt the body count of an extended WW2 would have exceed Stalin’s.

  3. #3
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    People say the want to be good rulers, yet the intend to be rulers. I don't blame hime for being a little tyrannical. After all he did command his military to victory. That's noble enough.

  4. #4
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    Stalin was an evil piece of shit who helped defeat another evil piece of shit. Nothing more. We only allied with him out of necessity.

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  5. #5
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Linkedblade View Post
    I don't blame hime for being a little tyrannical.
    A little?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Purge
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  6. #6
    Stalin had little to do with Germany's hubris. The state of Russian military can be best be described by grabbing guns off the guy who got shot in front of you. I am willing to argue that partisans had a bigger impact on foiling German advancement than the military. Russia, just like with Napoleon, you pack your shit and got east, while father winter does the rest.

    Even before the war, the treaty with Germany was a mistake. Germany couldn't move forward without knowing Russia would ignore the take over of Poland. After the war, with Stalin as the only member of the pack that was not ill, he is heavily responsible for carving Israel out of other countries, without a single representative of said country or the region, was a huge mistake.
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  7. #7
    It was not Stalin's leadership that won the battles, it was his generals, such as Zhukov.

    And no, just fighting against another madman does not justify any of the evil and suffering that Stalin caused. Stalin was just as evil as Hitler, probably even worse.

    But even if the USSR would have collapsed, I don't think the nazis would have won in the end. The might of the U.S., when channeled to war efforts, was simply too great. If anything, the world might be a little better place today: commies crushed by nazis, nazis crushed by USA, win-win. No communist China, no North Korea, no Che Guevara, no Castro's Cuba, no half a century long Cold War and endless communist revolutions around the globe supported by the USSR. Hundreds of millions of lives would have been spared.

  8. #8
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    He had a single front, the german supply lines were stretched too thin and he had the numbers. The other allies were pounding on all sides of Germany which thinned thier solders and supplies. It was inevitable.

    and crushing hitler make up for his brutal noose he held on his own people?
    IMO only, you dont have to be a brutal killer of your own people to be a successful war time leader.
    Is he just entirely evil?
    yes
    I do not believe russia could have defeated the hitler without his cruelty, and stomach for casualties.
    One on one with no allies? We will never know.
    Last edited by kunah; 2013-05-17 at 04:18 AM.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Gahmuret View Post
    It was not Stalin's leadership that won the battles, it was his generals, such as Zhukov.
    The expertise or quality of Russian generals can be directly linked with how quickly they were removed from their post after the war.
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Felya420 View Post
    The expertise or quality of Russian generals can be directly linked with how quickly they were removed from their post after the war.
    Indeed. Stalin, being a paranoid tyrant, would probably loved to have had Zhukov eliminated, had he not been a national hero.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Title says it all. If Russia had fallen, germany would have had room to finish what they started in the battle of britain, and perform the necessary acts to bring about the end of the RAF, the royal navy, and Operation Sea Lion.

    The big question, after the millions he slew in his purges, does his leadership on the battlefield across eastern europe, and crushing hitler make up for his brutal noose he held on his own people? Is he just entirely evil? I do not believe russia could have defeated the hitler without his cruelty, and stomach for casualties. Infact, if you were a soldier and encircled, you needed to fight until the bitter end, if you broke out? You were shot.

    So tell me MMO-Champion, what do you think about this?

    Russia would have fallen if not for the incredible amount of supplies the US was giving them during the war. And it is not cruel to demand that soldiers fight in a war to defend your land and your people. Russia would have been just fine without Stalin in WWII.

    In total, the US deliveries through Lend-Lease amounted to $11 billion in materials: over 400,000 jeeps and trucks; 12,000 armored vehicles (including 7,000 tanks); 11,400 aircraft and 1.75 million tons of food to Russia.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Scoots View Post
    Title says it all. If Russia had fallen, germany would have had room to finish what they started in the battle of britain, and perform the necessary acts to bring about the end of the RAF, the royal navy, and Operation Sea Lion.

    The big question, after the millions he slew in his purges, does his leadership on the battlefield across eastern europe, and crushing hitler make up for his brutal noose he held on his own people? Is he just entirely evil? I do not believe russia could have defeated the hitler without his cruelty, and stomach for casualties. Infact, if you were a soldier and encircled, you needed to fight until the bitter end, if you broke out? You were shot.

    So tell me MMO-Champion, what do you think about this?
    Savior? No. If he hadn't purged all the competent generals before becoming involved in WW2 that front would have been quite a bit different. Stalin was a paranoid dictator who removed anyone who he saw as a threat to him (which was pretty much anyone competent).

  13. #13
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    Stalin was only good for having the world's largest irl zerg rush.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Kulanae View Post
    Russia would have fallen if not for the incredible amount of supplies the US was giving them during the war. And it is not cruel to demand that soldiers fight in a war to defend your land and your people. Russia would have been just fine without Stalin in WWII.

    In total, the US deliveries through Lend-Lease amounted to $11 billion in materials: over 400,000 jeeps and trucks; 12,000 armored vehicles (including 7,000 tanks); 11,400 aircraft and 1.75 million tons of food to Russia.
    What about the supplies the British sent them...months before US aid ever began...and the British never asked for a penny back. Nevermind that Canadians were also escorting your merchant ships through the arctic.

    Unless I'm missing the actual intention here and this isn't some thinly veiled "US won WW2 for everyone" post.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TradewindNQ View Post
    What about the supplies the British sent them...months before US aid ever began...and the British never asked for a penny back. Nevermind that Canadians were also escorting your merchant ships through the arctic.

    Unless I'm missing the actual intention here and this isn't some thinly veiled "US won WW2 for everyone" post.
    I don't think so. It's just a datapoint in the discussion thread.
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  16. #16
    Pandaren Monk Fred the Hunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olo View Post
    If # of deaths is the sole criteria, I doubt the body count of an extended WW2 would have exceed Stalin’s.
    For anyone wondering about the body counts of dictators.


  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by kunah View Post
    I don't think so. It's just a datapoint in the discussion thread.
    idk, it seems quite exclusionary.

    I should also mention that a lot of the aid also came after the war in europe had already ended.
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  18. #18
    I am Murloc! Charge me Doctor's Avatar
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    Yeah, because each and every human being in this death count was killed personally by Stalin. You do know that corruption exists not only in democracy?

    @Kulanae, yeah, but you forget that US supplied 3rd reich too. And many of these delivers come too late to be effective
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    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  19. #19
    Evil is a matter of perspective.

    He revolutionised Russia from nothing into something, not to mention every other superpower has skeletons in their closet. Hell the British Empire killed alot of people in it's time frame.



    All I will say is that Russians seem to want a leader like him back even knowing what he did.
    "Heresy is like a garden weed, it won't stop feeding until you... BURN THE WHOLE DAMN GARDEN WITH A FLAMER, BURN IT, BURN IT TO HELL!!!!!" "Is there a wittle puppy in the garden? ITS A DAEMON! BURN IT!"

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Yeah, because each and every human being in this death count was killed personally by Stalin. You do know that corruption exists not only in democracy?

    @Kulanae, yeah, but you forget that US supplied 3rd reich too. And many of these delivers come too late to be effective
    It was the Russian winter and the long uninstainable supply line that defeated the Germans not Stalin. just ask Napoleon

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