1. #1

    What is the difference here?

    So I am consistently beat on damage by another mage in very comparable gear (maybe 1 ilvl difference), and I cannot figure out why. Other than me having an 'unerring vision of lei shen' and him having cha'ye essence of brilliance, but I dont know if it is that big of a difference.

    My armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...knezz/advanced
    His armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...cious/advanced

    Logs (I kick shells on tortos but other than that we do the same job):
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-iz8s0mtafqgl4m9j/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-bw8svys1jtjwoy5e/
    http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-lpqnmvdr6a6rv7fr/

    Zevix is another mage, but not the one im talking about. I am Sycknezz and the mage I refer to is Bubulicious.

    I have asked him in the past, and he doesnt really tell me anything.

    Any wizards of logs out there that would be willing to cast some insight on this would be greatly appreciated.

    Also in case anyone is curious, on the pull I evoke and mirror image, precast pyro with pot, put up NT, then cast fireball for heating up, when I get that I IB, and cast until i get another heating up (unless it will drop procs to wait any longer), then I hit my AT macro, pyro pyro (pyro more if I get crits), cancel AT, and pyro more, and on the pull on single target i usually end up with a 100-150k ignite that I can combust on with all haste buffs active (meta, troll racial, lust if used on pull). I do not really wait around for combust much, when my PoM comes off cd, or when it is a few seconds away, I will get a pyro/heating up, and then hit those, which usually nets me a 70-80k ignite for combust. I do not wait on procs, only on pyro/heating up.

    As far as rotation goes, fireball until pyro/heating up are both up, cast pyro with a fireball at that point. Always have NT on target etc.

    I dont know what is the major difference here, any help would be greatly appreciated.

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    So I am consistently beat on damage by another mage in very comparable gear (maybe 1 ilvl difference), and I cannot figure out why. Other than me having an 'unerring vision of lei shen' and him having cha'ye essence of brilliance, but I dont know if it is that big of a difference.
    Unerring is useless for fire. While I don't know how big of a difference it makes compared to what you could be using, it is something that you can change and will see an improvement. Also, unless I'm missing something, why don't you have your synapse springs on your gloves?
    Last edited by Monstercloud; 2013-05-17 at 07:59 AM.

  3. #3
    Well for starters I don't know why you picked Lei Shen trinkets since it's so terrible for any mage spec.

    Also you seems to use Combust at the end of your AT macro and you shouldnt, because there's a good chance your ignite was higher before the end.
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  4. #4
    with a fast look, his combustion ticks are over 300 when yours are less then 200. this means he is spreading his combustions in a better way than you do. improve it and you will see your dps going up. also you got your mind on the timers for the kick which i believe distracts you from the pure dps and avoid dmg inc
    edit: only checked one tortos fight, will check more later
    Last edited by Cellyna; 2013-05-17 at 12:56 PM.

  5. #5
    The Patient Deztru's Avatar
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    You got 2 ilvl522 trinkets and the Unerring vision, which is plainly bad for mages.

    He has 535 wushoolays and 522 Cha-yes, the BiS trinkets for fire.

    Also he has 1,7% more crit which shows up, and fire vs. fire dps comes down to the level of who of you just gets more lucky. His bigger crit chance lowers the margin of luck to be beaten by another fire mage.

    He has higher ilvl weapon, and overall 1 ilvl more which means more spellpower, 500-1000 SP more for him and this shows up too.

    And then just the skill of 2 of you. Here you can see too that luck is a significant margin when comparing to another fire mage.

  6. #6
    and want to add smth to what destruktio said. although you got more haste, he always ends up having casted more spells than you which simply means he is playing better

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Cellyna View Post
    with a fast look, his combustion ticks are over 300 when yours are less then 200. this means he is spreading his combustions in a better way than you do. improve it and you will see your dps going up. also you got your mind on the timers for the kick which i believe distracts you from the pure dps and avoid dmg inc
    edit: only checked one tortos fight, will check more later
    I am sorry for being unclear, I did not want you to focus on tortos, but rather avoid it and focus on the other fights. I kick all the shells, so I lose a bit of dps compared to the other mages.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 08:15 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Destruktio View Post
    You got 2 ilvl522 trinkets and the Unerring vision, which is plainly bad for mages.

    He has 535 wushoolays and 522 Cha-yes, the BiS trinkets for fire.

    Also he has 1,7% more crit which shows up, and fire vs. fire dps comes down to the level of who of you just gets more lucky. His bigger crit chance lowers the margin of luck to be beaten by another fire mage.

    He has higher ilvl weapon, and overall 1 ilvl more which means more spellpower, 500-1000 SP more for him and this shows up too.

    And then just the skill of 2 of you. Here you can see too that luck is a significant margin when comparing to another fire mage.
    What can I do to improve my skill? Where is it lacking? Can you be more specific? BTW thank you for responses so far.

  8. #8
    I don't know what the general feeling for the site is, but for things like this I use comparebot. I've put in your logs for Jin'rokh and these are the results:
    raidbots com/comparebot/5196386974254e7e4c00094b#damage
    (sorry can't link it, you'll need to put the . in the .com


    the main things that I can see here are that he got an extra 8.2mil dmg from pyroblast and 5.5mil from fireball. He got those by casting 9 more pyroblasts and 19 more fireballs. His average pyroblast was a good 100kdmg more then yours (although he did have a lot more crits then you) so perhaps he used them at better times.

    You cast 28 scorches compared to his 9, so you're losing a lot more dps then him from moving.

    One other interesting thing is that you hit more times with nether tempest (326 - 318) but he did 900k more dmg with his.

    If you're not using your procs with trinkets/boss mechanics, it might explain the amount of difference between the pyroblasts and nether tempest dmgs




    On second look, it seems as though he got an ionization in the raid, which if I'm reading this right, looks like it counts to his dps (I don't do heroic, so I'm only guessing that this is a very bad thing). According to comparebot it counted for 40k dps, which all up puts him only 5k dps ahead of you...

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Monstercloud View Post
    Unerring is useless for fire. While I don't know how big of a difference it makes compared to what you could be using, it is something that you can change and will see an improvement. Also, unless I'm missing something, why don't you have your synapse springs on your gloves?
    I have not had a breath of the hydra or cha'ye essence of brilliance drop for me, I coin megara and animus weekly <.<

    Also it must be an armory bug, because i have all my engineering funsies on my gear, including synapse springs.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 08:25 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by tethrius View Post
    On second look, it seems as though he got an ionization in the raid, which if I'm reading this right, looks like it counts to his dps (I don't do heroic, so I'm only guessing that this is a very bad thing). According to comparebot it counted for 40k dps, which all up puts him only 5k dps ahead of you...
    Yes that is a bad thing, we died just as jinrok died to some fool blowing us up with ionization, guess now i know who it was >.>

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    I have not had a breath of the hydra or cha'ye essence of brilliance drop for me, I coin megara and animus weekly <.<

    Also it must be an armory bug, because i have all my engineering funsies on my gear, including synapse springs.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 08:25 AM ----------



    Yes that is a bad thing, we died just as jinrok died to some fool blowing us up with ionization, guess now i know who it was >.>
    I'm guessing even the SPA valor trinket would be better than Lei Shen's, even maybe LOTC heroic or something like this. If you have the time you could even run LFR's to drop either BoH or Cha'Ye LFR, it would be loads better than Lei Shen's trinket.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Eihwaz View Post
    I'm guessing even the SPA valor trinket would be better than Lei Shen's, even maybe LOTC heroic or something like this. If you have the time you could even run LFR's to drop either BoH or Cha'Ye LFR, it would be loads better than Lei Shen's trinket.
    Those are things I can do, I was not sure if they outperformed the straight int on unerring though, I will probably go with the valor trinkit. By the way, can anyone tell me how to sim certain pieces of gear for myself? I run sims on my char for stat weights (which atm seems to be horribly broken), but have no clue how to sim pieces of gear.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral spaace's Avatar
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    His heroic TF weapon is huge.
    Not to mention the trinkets...

    His "buffed" stats destroy yours, because of itemization, for starters.
    His combustions all best yours by lots. He also has more casted spells, overall.
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  13. #13
    What saddens me is that you have a 530 ilvl and you have to ask these questions. On one hand, he probably doesn't tell you anything because his back is tired. On the other, you are coming here to improve your skill, so at least that says something.

    The advice from the others above is good, as usual, because they take the time to understand the workings of their class. MY advice to you has nothing to do with how to improve your damage. MY advice to you is to educate yourself completely on your class so you can build a respectful relationship with your fellow raid's mages. It is sad to see a raid where one fellow of a class won't help another (like when you say he won't tell you much). That stems from someone being a complete cun7, or from a total lack of respect.

    I honestly don't mean this as a dig to you, but sincere and thoughtful advice.
    Last edited by Malfecto; 2013-05-18 at 05:04 PM.

  14. #14
    Seriously ditch the lei shen trinket and use the valor trinket.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Malfecto View Post
    What saddens me is that you have a 530 ilvl and you have to ask these questions. On one hand, he probably doesn't tell you anything because his back is tired. On the other, you are coming here to improve your skill, so at least that says something.

    The advice from the others above is good, as usual, because they take the time to understand the workings of their class. MY advice to you has nothing to do with how to improve your damage. MY advice to you is to educate yourself completely on your class so you can build a respectful relationship with your fellow raid's mages. It is sad to see a raid where one fellow of a class won't help another (like when you say he won't tell you much). That stems from someone being a complete cun7, or from a total lack of respect.

    I honestly don't mean this as a dig to you, but sincere and thoughtful advice.
    Maybe he doesn't say much because it's kind of hard to describe how to play a spec perfectly, it's just something you get a feel for. You can't really describe the timing of everything so that it is 100% understandable, I do a very similar thing when people ask me how to play. It's just not an easy thing to do.

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by fearist View Post
    Maybe he doesn't say much because it's kind of hard to describe how to play a spec perfectly, it's just something you get a feel for. You can't really describe the timing of everything so that it is 100% understandable, I do a very similar thing when people ask me how to play. It's just not an easy thing to do.
    Various guides, theorycrafters, combat logs, and forum goers would like to say otherwise.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Monstercloud View Post
    Various guides, theorycrafters, combat logs, and forum goers would like to say otherwise.
    Indeed. When I started to play fire I found the best DPSing mage on our realm and made a Horde toon and asked him for tips and he was happy to help. If I recieved help from a complete random, on the opposite faction, then the fact that the other mage in your guild/raid team didn't really make an effort does not put that particular mage in a very good light.

  18. #18
    As have been mentioned you kind of seem to know what you're doing but doesnt seem to be 100% why you're doing it. A deeper understanding of your class/specc cant ever hurt your game play so you should read up more or ask other mages.

    You obviously know that fire mages loves crit since you're gemmed towards it due to the many mechanics that crits will trigger for us. Try to analyze your logs by your own and find those mechanics like heating up, Pyroblast! etc and compare the amount of proccs gained, proccs used and the average uptime on them. Provided your fellow mage deep down really is a nice guy this he could very much help you with. Just take 15-20 mins after a raid and go through the logs together.

    Use the "Buffs Cast/Buffs Gained" tabs to compare yourself to him in addition to Damage by Spell. Sometime Damage by actor is interesting to peek at aswell(hint look up the dmg to Horridon for you both)

  19. #19
    Legendary! Polarthief's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grumash View Post
    So I am consistently beat on damage by another mage in very comparable gear (maybe 1 ilvl difference), and I cannot figure out why. Other than me having an 'unerring vision of lei shen' and him having cha'ye essence of brilliance, but I dont know if it is that big of a difference.
    ... I mean, that's a pretty significant difference...

    Also on Durumu, you had 4 Combustions. Your friend had 5. His "spikes" were also much larger than yours (click just both your names on that). To be fair, you did die at one point, but your "DPS Wave" wasn't spiky at all like his was. May have been consistently poor procs and bad RNG.

    PS: Cha-Ye is a huge difference, not just for the procc. That crit boost is amazing.
    Last edited by Polarthief; 2013-05-21 at 06:38 AM.

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  20. #20
    out of curiosity... do you have weak auras to monitor all procs and raid cds? PoPing alter time macro with Skull Banner up will for instance make a whole lot of differance.
    Same goes for combustioning with trinkets or Meta proc up.

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