View Poll Results: As a Horde player, would you rather side with the Darkspear Rebellion or Warchief?

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  • Darkspear Rebellion

    340 71.58%
  • Warchief

    135 28.42%
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  1. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by earthwarden View Post
    You mean this?



    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 01:17 PM ----------


    You can't "disregard neutrality". Can't stock arms in Red Cross tents and pretend it's okay if busted because "it's tactically sound, lol".

    Theramore was an Alliance city, clearly marked, the whole difference was that Jaina was to be parleyed with.

    Yes, that made it open for an attack, but it's Garrosh who started the total war on Azeroth, using methods previously employed only by Archimonde. The thing is that if you're using such means, Jaina would've been well within her rights (and had the ability to do so) to nuke Orgrimmar right back.

    Bottom line: Garrosh has it coming. Tactically sound or not, by using such means to an end, he started something he cannot possibly finish.
    Ah I see what the issue was. You never read my post correctly.

    I already said Garry was the person to blame for all of this. prior to cata I had no problem with Theramore. When cata happened and Theramore was used as a base of operations it was fair game in a total war scenario. I don't agree with this method but I do agree with the reasons why it was attacked. Your analogy made no sense btw what context were you referring to? It really was a bad one sorry.

    Nuking Orgrimmar back would have made her a monster and would have been worse than Theramore as the population is HUGE there. She would not have been within her rights she would have been out of her mind. I do agree he has it coming so does that bitch jaina. Shes sounding a lot like him these days. But no doubt shes safe for now ¬_¬

  2. #222
    Lets see we have Garrosh, racist, shitty leader, chooses to ignore his allies and not learn a thing about them but demand from them things they cant provide. Warmonger who believes in his own "pride" though he himself has done little of note. Has been in two duels he was about to lose but 1 the fight was cut short, other he had to have a poisoned blade save him from death.

    Can see why people want him dead?

  3. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthwarden View Post
    Point is, no complaining apparent. In third mission they mention it's hot to just jog through the Barrens for days butt-naked, that's about it.
    Heart of War
    On Garrosh's first day in visiting Ogrimmar he gets into an argument with a women complaining that Durotar is crap

    and that was before the Shattering where things became worse than "usual"
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  4. #224
    Scarab Lord MasterOfKnees's Avatar
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    They merely stated that Garrosh is universally despised in lore, not by the playerbase, the only mention of the playerbase in that quote is that we have to take him down.

  5. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Ah I see what the issue was. You never read my post correctly.

    I already said Garry was the person to blame for all of this. prior to cata I had no problem with Theramore. When cata happened and Theramore was used as a base of operations it was fair game in a total war scenario. I don't agree with this method but I do agree with the reasons why it was attacked. Your analogy made no sense btw what context were you referring to? It really was a bad one sorry.

    Nuking Orgrimmar back would have made her a monster and would have been worse than Theramore as the population is HUGE there. She would not have been within her rights she would have been out of her mind. I do agree he has it coming so does that bitch jaina. Shes sounding a lot like him these days. But no doubt shes safe for now ¬_¬
    its really just the twilights hammers fault, if the twilights hammer never kidnapped varian, varian wouldve given the orcs lumber, the orcs would stop chopping down trees in ashenvale, the night elves and orcs would stop fighting, theramore wouldnt need to build a road to send supplies to ashenvale.

    also the orcs probably shouldnt have enslaved varian and made him fight to the death as a gladiator
    "I was a normal baby for 30 seconds, then ninjas stole my mamma" - Deadpool
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  6. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Heart of War. On Garrosh's first day in visiting Ogrimmar he gets into an argument with a women complaining that Durotar is crap
    To be fair, that was Krenna, who we learned in WOTLK kind of saw everything and everyone as crap.

  7. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by Netherspark View Post
    This is exactly what im talking about.... Garrosh's personallity has never "changed" and he has never been made "evil". He's just an asshole from beginning to end, that is the whole point with Garrosh --a non-corrupted tyrant.
    If that was truly Blizzard's intent from the start, then the fail didn't come from MoP but from Cataclysm. I remember Metzen saying prior to the release of Cataclysm that he'd make Garrosh more likable. Because lots of people didn't want Garrosh as Warchief over Thrall, people were upset so he eased the pain by making Garrosh more honorable. (which is why the Stonetalon event happened for example)

    If his intent was always to make Garrosh evil then he shouldn't have given in and made him more likable back then. Plenty of people loved Garrosh in Cataclysm though, and now their character is getting thrown in the trash like it was never meant to be. Blizzard surely screwed up somewhere along the way. I don't think it's a smart move on their part to get rid of a character that a good portion still likes. It's quite insulting to those players.

    Besides, Metzen knows a group of people still likes Garrosh. He said we would all get through this together. But I have to wait to see it.

  8. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Immitis View Post
    its really just the twilights hammers fault, if the twilights hammer never kidnapped varian, varian wouldve given the orcs lumber, the orcs would stop chopping down trees in ashenvale, the night elves and orcs would stop fighting, theramore wouldnt need to build a road to send supplies to ashenvale.

    also the orcs probably shouldnt have enslaved varian and made him fight to the death as a gladiator
    Very Very true. Was it the hammer that captured him or nagas? I can't remember (or was it naga mobs in vanilla put there) but yes you are certainly right. They also attacked Theramore during that peace summit that was going to result in trade between horde/alliance (fur/other materials from horde for alliance lumber)

  9. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    Ah I see what the issue was. You never read my post correctly.

    I already said Garry was the person to blame for all of this. prior to cata I had no problem with Theramore. When cata happened and Theramore was used as a base of operations it was fair game in a total war scenario. I don't agree with this method but I do agree with the reasons why it was attacked. Your analogy made no sense btw what context were you referring to? It really was a bad one sorry.

    Nuking Orgrimmar back would have made her a monster and would have been worse than Theramore as the population is HUGE there. She would not have been within her rights she would have been out of her mind. I do agree he has it coming so does that bitch jaina. Shes sounding a lot like him these days. But no doubt shes safe for now ¬_¬
    Dalaran was the base of operations against the Lich King, for the good of all, so that's the analogy with medical facilities. Either something is neutral (and you let it go as it pleases) or it is not (or you keep watch on it and not let it close). Sneakily using a neutral being for conquest is out of the question.

    Again, leveling a whole city using magic is something only Archimonde did so far, at least in recent Azeroth history. That's an act of war on an unprecedented scale, which Garrosh did commit and Jaina didn't (despite having been involved in such an attack herself, bereaved and disfigured). She has the clear moral high ground there, so yes, it seems she's "safe". Sylvanas, going full-on Lich King mode seems the most likely next on the chopping block.
    Last edited by earthwarden; 2013-05-17 at 01:43 PM.

  10. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by earthwarden View Post
    You mean this?

    Thrall sure knows much about Draenor when he wasnt even been there.

  11. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by duttyboi View Post

    My vote is in!
    I admire your tenacity to have that done, I really do. But.. doesn't it feel dissappointing knowing the character its themed on is now hated by so many and is just going to be a loot chest?
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  12. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    Thrall sure knows much about Draenor when he wasnt even been there.
    Apparently he does.

    Bottom line, he says "rugged and beautiful", doesn't go "OMG WHAT A DUMP I'M OUT", and he's cool with founding a whole country there.

  13. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badhairday View Post
    People act as if Blizzard suddenly decided to take a good guy and turn him evil on a whim, but who's to say they didn't plan for him to turn out this way from the start? Storywise they plan ahead expansions, and MoP is all about Garrosh. I for one think they planned to make him evil when they first introduced him, and I don't think they did it poorly at all.
    Too much people doesn't understand this, or simply Garrosh fanboys will never admit it, they need to belive that their "hero" became suddenly a bad boy because Blizzard was in desperate need of a villain. Hilarious!

    But personally i don't see Garrosh as "evil". In my opinion the boy is simply flawed, he have an absurd amount of strained pride because of his father and have a very malleable personality, beliving what is the better thing to do depending only on which kind of "friend" advise him to do so. He doesn't accept honest criticism, only the advise of manipulative and malicious characters that say to him all the good, sweety things he wants and likes to hear. He's a strong warrior, a charismatic and inspiring leader, even a strong-willed individual, but have a VERY weak and naive personality, excessive pride and, like his father, an impatient, impulsive and harsh behavior. This is the character that Garrosh was by day 1 in TBC, but a lot of people refuse or forgot to see.

    OT, i don't despise Garrosh, but i will side with the Darkspear rebellion without a doubt. A Warchief needs a strong and decisive personality, not just badass war cries.

  14. #234
    Meh, Blizzard is trying way too hard to make everyone hate Garrosh. Even so bad that I acctually like him now, just to troll Blizzard.

    Garrosh Hellscream FTW

  15. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    If that was truly Blizzard's intent from the start, then the fail didn't come from MoP but from Cataclysm. I remember Metzen saying prior to the release of Cataclysm that he'd make Garrosh more likable. Because lots of people didn't want Garrosh as Warchief over Thrall, people were upset so he eased the pain by making Garrosh more honorable. (which is why the Stonetalon event happened for example)
    The Stonetalon event has been hugely debated in lore circles. Was he really killing Krom'gar as punishment for blowing up the druid school? Or was it more a way for him to cover up something he openly ordered, but didn't want to take the heat on with the Tauren? Garrosh may be a bit of a meat head, but he ain't that stupid.

    In the end though, whether WOTLK, Cata, or MoP, it's always been shown that Garrosh is a slave to his own pride. It's just MoP kicked that pride to 11.

  16. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Besides, Metzen knows a group of people still likes Garrosh. He said we would all get through this together. But I have to wait to see it.
    The fact that people like a character is in no way a reason not to kill him ofcourse. It completely depends on how they handle it. atm it looks a little too much like "I'm a conflicted orc that does not want to make the same mistakes as my father. But the burden of leadership is taking it's toll" to "hurr, garrosh angry, garrosh smash" without anything in between.

  17. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grocalis View Post
    To be fair, that was Krenna, who we learned in WOTLK kind of saw everything and everyone as crap.
    dsnt mean everything she said was completely false
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  18. #238
    Quote Originally Posted by earthwarden View Post
    Dalaran was the base of operations against the Lich King, for the good of all, so that's the analogy with medical facilities. Either something is neutral (and you let it go as it pleases) or it is not (or you keep watch on it and not let it close). Sneakily using a neutral being for conquest is out of the question.

    Again, leveling a whole city using magic is something only Archimonde did so far, at least in recent Azeroth history. That's an act of war on an unprecedented scale, which Garrosh did commit and Jaina didn't (despite having been involved in such an attack herself, bereaved and disfigured). She has the clear moral high ground there, so yes, it seems she's "safe". Sylvanas, going full-on Lich King mode seems the most likely next on the chopping block.
    Ah I see your reference makes more sense now. Thing is she didn't help her case by helping keep the bell safe. She blurred lines. Not condoning giving the weapon to Garry or for elements of the sun reavers to be doing this on his behalf.

    Sylvie another one who needs to be staked. She came off quite good in Wrath then in cata she went full on rage evil mode mini lich queen if you like.

    Jaina used to be a great character but now shes full of hate and when you see her in dalaran as alliance shes all *flowers and peace* moment a sun reaver puts on the troll face mask and steals the bell from under her nose she goes mental again. She does flat out murder some sun reaver guards and pretty much inprisons anyone she sees. But that I can look over. I still think she needs a good kicking. But Garry is on top of my list.

  19. #239
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    If that was truly Blizzard's intent from the start, then the fail didn't come from MoP but from Cataclysm. I remember Metzen saying prior to the release of Cataclysm that he'd make Garrosh more likable. Because lots of people didn't want Garrosh as Warchief over Thrall, people were upset so he eased the pain by making Garrosh more honorable. (which is why the Stonetalon event happened for example)

    If his intent was always to make Garrosh evil then he shouldn't have given in and made him more likable back then. Plenty of people loved Garrosh in Cataclysm though, and now their character is getting thrown in the trash like it was never meant to be. Blizzard surely screwed up somewhere along the way. I don't think it's a smart move on their part to get rid of a character that a good portion still likes. It's quite insulting to those players.

    Besides, Metzen knows a group of people still likes Garrosh. He said we would all get through this together. But I have to wait to see it.
    Likeable doesn't mean flawless. And indeed they didn't make him likeable "because", that was a part of his character, it was important to show us that despite all the weaknesses and flaws Garrosh have, he's NOT a bloodthirsty monster. And the Stonetalon quest served the purpose, because show that Garrosh is nothing like Krom'gar. But not only the quest, even the novels show pretty well that Garrosh do stupid things for naivety and pride, not because he's a evil bastard.

    And the Stonetalon thing didn't make Garrosh "more honorable", he already was, in his own way. The main problem is that Garrosh is not a decisive and strong person that remains steady with his convinctions, he even used the Saurfang's statement without really understanding the meaning behind it : "Honor...no matter how dire the battle will turn...never forsake it", yeah yeah all good but that was easy to say to a retarded mongrel like Krom'gar that killed scholars and murdered innocents for no reason at all. Saurfang meant that no matter how dire things turn out in a war (like the precarious situation of the orcs in Durotar) never forsake your honor, never resolve to murder and destruction, even for a greater good.

    It's the same relationship that Uther and Arthas had, when Uther refused to do something murderous like killing Lordaeron citiziens even if their fate was sealed, but Arthas decided that for the greater good was a necessary "evil".
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-17 at 02:14 PM.

  20. #240
    Well as an Orc I would stick with the warchief no matter what, but it seems that won't be an option. Overall I think it's very dangerous to make a raid like this, I can imagine many horde players not being that comfortable with sacking their own city while they are at war?

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