View Poll Results: As a Horde player, would you rather side with the Darkspear Rebellion or Warchief?

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  • Darkspear Rebellion

    340 71.58%
  • Warchief

    135 28.42%
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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by wolfen View Post
    Its actually not that hard. same amount of bosses, exact same abilities, just one is orc and the other is human. Specially with them using old content backgrounds already ie orgrimmar, dragonblight.

    Seriously isnt that hard.
    Already did that in 1 fight in ToC.

  2. #302
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    I don't like/trust Vol'jin never have never will. They have shoe horned him as a character since Classic WoW. Garrosh was once a decent character and while his Warchief reign has been short, he's made a much larger ripple then the useless Thrall who did nothing but apologize every time the horde did something the alliance disliked.

    The only Horde faction leaders I like are Lor'Themar and Sylvannas, I don't know enough about Baine but if he's anything like his old man then I'll add him to my list of awesome faction leaders.

    I side with Garrosh, he didn't do anything wrong his methods might have been nasty but what he did was within his power and in order to strengthen the horde. Remember that Theramore was a fairly large alliance base that was very close to Orgrimmar and an actual threat. If Garrosh is going to die he needs to die at the hands of the alliance not at the hands of Vol'jin i'll be super pissed if they give that douche the glory. Then again I wouldn't be surprised since they totally shafted Sylvannas in Wotlk when they didn't let her take down Arthas. Out of all the faction leaders in Azeroth Sylvannas was the one that deserved the kill the most.
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  3. #303
    Scarab Lord Wrathonia's Avatar
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    Garrosh was never a leader. In BC he was a sniveling little brat that had to be shown how to be an orc by Thrall. In WotLK he suddenly has super rage issues and hates the alliance for....some reason. It's never really explained where all his anger comes from. Cata they try to show some leadership, but he still botches shit regularly. And in MoP he is insane and xenophobic. He was NEVER a good warchief. I will be glad when he dies.

  4. #304
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    You see, as an evolving storyline this seems like a sudden turn of events, but this will make far more sense in retrospect I feel.

    I'm pretty sure they set Garrosh up right from the start in TBC to be evil. Garrosh is to Arthas as Northwatch is to Stratholme, etc.

    Just as Arthas started being influenced by an evil power partway through his journey, I'm sure Garrosh is now too. I thought that was incredibly obvious that he was no longer sane as early as 5.1.

    In Patch 5.3, it's blatantly obvious that Garrosh has left the building and that his mind has been replaced with tentacles and spikes or whatever.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathonia View Post
    Garrosh was never a leader. In BC he was a sniveling little brat that had to be shown how to be an orc by Thrall. In WotLK he suddenly has super rage issues and hates the alliance for....some reason. It's never really explained where all his anger comes from. Cata they try to show some leadership, but he still botches shit regularly. And in MoP he is insane and xenophobic. He was NEVER a good warchief. I will be glad when he dies.
    Eh, the rage seems genetic, tbh. Grom was always angry too.

    Grom and Garrosh are very, very similar people - the difference is that Grom was the better man in the end and was able to fight the corruption. Garrosh still doesn't see his corruption.
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  5. #305
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathonia View Post
    Garrosh was never a leader. In BC he was a sniveling little brat that had to be shown how to be an orc by Thrall. In WotLK he suddenly has super rage issues and hates the alliance for....some reason. It's never really explained where all his anger comes from. Cata they try to show some leadership, but he still botches shit regularly. And in MoP he is insane and xenophobic. He was NEVER a good warchief. I will be glad when he dies.
    Exactly. Sniveling brat (TBC) > Rage and I am awesome (Wotlk) > RAGE!!!! I AM THE BESTEST EVER!!!! (Cata) > Insane

    Why does he hate alliance so much? Did he not find out about how the Lich King was taken down or who took his place? Garrosh is an impulsive idiot and I cannot stand him.

  6. #306
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    They specifically (poorly) wrote him to pander to the people who didn't do any of the revamped quest lines in Cataclysm showing him to be brash and headstrong, but capable of learning better traits (Stonetalon Mountains specifically). He mostly just wanted his people to prosper. Of course, now they paint him as an insane bad guy since MoP's release with the majority of his evil plan making no damn sense whatsoever.
    Kinda sounds like Hitler. Ive never liked Garrosh and have hated him since he killed Cairne, if he had a shred of honor or dignity them he woulda resigned as warchief. Since then he has become a blood thirsty dickhead.

  7. #307
    Quote Originally Posted by HollerTH View Post
    Exactly. Sniveling brat (TBC) > Rage and I am awesome (Wotlk) > RAGE!!!! I AM THE BESTEST EVER!!!! (Cata) > Insane

    Why does he hate alliance so much? Did he not find out about how the Lich King was taken down or who took his place? Garrosh is an impulsive idiot and I cannot stand him.
    Story-wise, not many know of Bolvar's sacrifice. Remember his final quote.

    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead. And that Bolvar Fordragon. Died. With him."

    So that's no surprise that he doesn't know. Sylvanas, Tirion, and a handful of heroes who assaulted the Frozen Throne are the only few who know of Bolvar's sacrifice.

    Back on topic: I think both Saurfang and Vol'jin have it right about Garrosh. It's in his blood to be a rage-fueled basket case. Grom always was, but in the end, Grom was able to overcome his corruption for the good of all. Garrosh ignores that his father was willing to see his method was literally destroying him, and only sees that his father was strong enough to overcome his obstacle. Garrosh doesn't realize there is an obstacle to overcome, other than the war with the Alliance. He sees his leadership as absolute control, and anyone to question his rule is against him.

    I do believe his character development has been stunted for the good of the playerbase. His pride in Northrend made sense, after having his pride restored by Thrall. His actions throughout the Cataclysm, while over the top, fit exactly what the kind of character he was born to be should be. Strong, controlling, fearsome, but most of all, HONORABLE. He didn't use cheap tactics like mana-bombing a city that has been near his city for years. He didn't condone blowing up a non-hostile Druid base in Stonetalon. He agreed to honorable combat with his advisor (Granted, on the condition that it was a duel to the death), and sought to apologize for the events that then occured when he discovered his victory was stolen from him.

    Come MoP, and he's ordering, and I quote, to 'PAINT THIS NEW CONTINENT RED.' He's abusing the power of a dead old god, the Sha. He seeks the power to meld flesh, and build warriors. He's taking every opportunity to avoid combat in favor of cheap, dishonorable tactics. He favors slaughter over all else. NONE of this fits his previous character development. It's sickening to see what's happened to him. Granted, I've been far from a Garrosh supporter since Cata hit. But I do feel bad that a character with such potential is being killed off just because a vocal minority thought he was too mean.

  8. #308
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    Story-wise, not many know of Bolvar's sacrifice. Remember his final quote.

    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead. And that Bolvar Fordragon. Died. With him."

    So that's no surprise that he doesn't know. Sylvanas, Tirion, and a handful of heroes who assaulted the Frozen Throne are the only few who know of Bolvar's sacrifice.
    So the dude taking credit for the downfall of the lich king doesn't know what happened? Yeah that totally makes sense.

  9. #309
    Quote Originally Posted by HollerTH View Post
    So the dude taking credit for the downfall of the lich king doesn't know what happened? Yeah that totally makes sense.
    I don't think he's ever 'taken credit' for it. Garrosh has only ever said he helped assault Icecrown.

  10. #310
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    Quote Originally Posted by HollerTH View Post
    Exactly. Sniveling brat (TBC) > Rage and I am awesome (Wotlk) > RAGE!!!! I AM THE BESTEST EVER!!!! (Cata) > Insane
    Perception is everything:

    Believes his father damned Orcs --> Learns his father was a great orc hero --> In a blind rage tries to continue the Hellscream legacy --> Wise --> Insane
    Quote Originally Posted by Imadraenei View Post
    You can find that unbiased view somewhere between Atlantis and that unicorn farm down the street, just off Interstate √(-1).

  11. #311
    I do not despise Garrosh. However, we are being 'forced' to dislike him following his actions on 5.1 and now 5.3... i actually like the direction Garrosh took as a warchief, but they are really making it extreme to players actually despise.

    Oh well, i actually really liked him as a Warchief, and he had several awesome moments (specially the final quest in Stonetalon Mountains). Sad they just threw the character off for the sake of having a villain.

    Garrosh should become a hero, following the footsteps of his father - Grom. Not just get villainized and thrown down the crapper.

    I'm disappointed.

  12. #312
    I thought Garrosh was annoying in Nagrand, and my dislike of him only grew after WotLK came out, especially in the Ulduar trailer. Pretty much a chest-thumping arrogant prick. The one time he was ok was in Stonetalon, but that's the exception rather than the rule.
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  13. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrathonia View Post
    In WotLK he suddenly has super rage issues and hates the alliance for....some reason. It's never really explained where all his anger comes from. .
    it is if you read Heart of War

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 05:45 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by hulkgor View Post
    Garrosh should become a hero, following the footsteps of his father - Grom. Not just get villainized and thrown down the crapper.
    .
    The Son of Grom Hellscream really deserves better than this. Would be anout right shame if the Hellscream legacy is just left in the gutter
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  14. #314
    Quote Originally Posted by Fleugen View Post
    I don't think he's ever 'taken credit' for it. Garrosh has only ever said he helped assault Icecrown.
    Uh huh. So why do so many Orcs hail him as the hero of Northrend, and the Orc that led them to victory?

    Garrosh could straighten them out, and hand the credit to Saurfang or any of his other commanders, and aknowledge the fact it was a joint effort between the Horde, Alliance, Argent Dawn and Ebon Blade.

    But he didn't, he accepts this mantle of 'hero' despite doing nothing to earn it.

  15. #315
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    Quote Originally Posted by Durandro View Post
    But he didn't, he accepts this mantle of 'hero' despite doing nothing to earn it.
    He was the leader of the Horde armies in Northrend, pretty sure that means he "earns" something
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  16. #316
    Quote Originally Posted by Verdugo View Post
    He uses his kids as personal armor. One kid dies that way, other was sold to pandarian child enslaving ring.

    Typical paladin.
    Oh come on, he only wears his kids in town. Outside he wears a pair of human babies.

  17. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notos View Post
    I thought Garrosh was annoying in Nagrand, and my dislike of him only grew after WotLK came out, especially in the Ulduar trailer. Pretty much a chest-thumping arrogant prick. The one time he was ok was in Stonetalon, but that's the exception rather than the rule.
    the thing is his fans seem to regard it as the COMPLETE AND ABSOLUTE, this is entire character is based around that 1 quest and everything else is something to be disregarded.
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  18. #318
    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    You see, as an evolving storyline this seems like a sudden turn of events, but this will make far more sense in retrospect I feel.

    I'm pretty sure they set Garrosh up right from the start in TBC to be evil. Garrosh is to Arthas as Northwatch is to Stratholme, etc.
    You have an awful lot of faith in Blizzard's writing. I think they just had no idea what they were doing with the character, the playerbase saw through it in a subconscious level and said "i don't like him" instead of exploring their dislike to the cause(bad writing), and Blizzard just decided to kill him off(through bad writing) to appease the playerbase.

    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    Just as Arthas started being influenced by an evil power partway through his journey, I'm sure Garrosh is now too. I thought that was incredibly obvious that he was no longer sane as early as 5.1.

    In Patch 5.3, it's blatantly obvious that Garrosh has left the building and that his mind has been replaced with tentacles and spikes or whatever.
    IIRC, they said "garrosh is just that evil, he sees everything as a weapon, including the sha"?
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  19. #319
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    The Son of Grom Hellscream really deserves better than this. Would be anout right shame if the Hellscream legacy is just left in the gutter
    Given the fanbase that Grom got over his sacrifice, I will never understand why blizzard would choose to take a shit on the Hellscream name. When they brought back Hellscream (yeah Garrosh is basically his father) I always suspected that they would turn him into a hero that would go all out on some massive enemy. Kinda like a younger Saurfang. I really don't understand this decision, but then again, Blizzard's story development has been shit for a while now.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 02:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    You have an awful lot of faith in Blizzard's writing. I think they just had no idea what they were doing with the character, the playerbase saw through it in a subconscious level and said "i don't like him" instead of exploring their dislike to the cause(bad writing), and Blizzard just decided to kill him off(through bad writing) to appease the playerbase.
    That is exactly what I think has happened. When they came up with the character they probably had some plans for him, but when that didn't exactly fit in with any expansion they eventually decided to appease the majority of fans by making him a villain. They still took a big shit on their other fans though, good move Blizzard.

  20. #320
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    You have an awful lot of faith in Blizzard's writing. I think they just had no idea what they were doing with the character, the playerbase saw through it in a subconscious level and said "i don't like him" instead of exploring their dislike to the cause(bad writing), and Blizzard just decided to kill him off(through bad writing) to appease the playerbase.
    This times a bajillion.

    Players have loved or hated Grom Hellscream forever, and when there wasn't anything really about him in Vanilla, Blizzard tried to make that better by adding Garrosh in BC. His story somewhat follows Grom's, and I wouldn't be surprised if they wind up having Garrosh redeemed right before his defeat at the end of SoO just to, in the end, make him look like a misunderstood good guy in the end.

    The part that kind of irks me, as other people in this thread have said, is that he hasn't really done a whole lot that would warrant everyone killing him for the better of Azeroth. He has said he wants to conquer everything for the Horde, starting with Kalimdor and Lordaeron, but only has a few accomplishments of his own to show for that statement. Yes, there was Theramore, and he made an enemy of himself for not only the Alliance (moreso than before) but even the blue dragonflight, or what's left of it. Yes, there is the stuff in 5.3 with the "Dark Heart of Pandaria" and Ragefire Chasm, but I don't see that as the reason why everyone wants him dead. Most of the reasons why people want him dead is out of personal vendetta, not "we must kill you so you don't destroy Azeroth!"

    Here are some of the reasons why people want him dead:

    Varian - Garrosh decided to be a coward and break Anduin's leg with a giant bell.
    Jaina - Garrosh blew up Theramore.
    Vol'jin - Garrosh tried to kill him.
    Sylvanas - Garrosh called her a bitch.
    Gallywix - Garrosh is costing him money.
    Lor'themar - Garrosh essentially sacrificed Blood Elves in his conquest on Pandaria.
    Baine - Garrosh was a jerk to everyone and Baine disagrees.
    Vereesa - Garrosh's mana bomb killed her husband Rhonin.
    Thrall - Garrosh is using the Kor'kron to be a jerk to the Horde Thrall formed.

    There are, of course, more characters that have threatened to kill him, like Saurfang and such. But, in the end, no matter what they make Garrosh do between now and the end of the expansion, he's just not the "end of an expansion" kind of big boss. Blizzard continues to say he's not truly corrupted in the WoW sense, but more corrupted with power and war. Yet, they have him collecting Old God crap and having Dark Shamans corrupt crap under Orgrimmar. I just never felt like they ever knew what to do with Garrosh, so they said "Let's make him follow in his father's footsteps!" in the end. His actions in the books and short stories are a lot more hardcore than what we've seen fo him in-game, and even then, he's not on par with people like, y'know, Azshara, Kil'jaeden, Sargeras...other big threats sitting around with loot for us.

    Edit: The other biggest reason Garrosh doesn't seem like a huge threat to me is that his warmongering ideals are new to his character, because he's a somewhat new character to WoW. We've known that forces like the Old Gods and the Burning Legion have existed for a long time and want to destroy/conquer Azeroth. Garrosh's development skyrocketed every expansion, with the ultimate decisions he's making within the last couple patches. He required more build-up imo.
    Last edited by Destinas; 2013-05-18 at 03:07 PM.

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