Warchief being "universally despised" by Horde playerbase

[Dreknar20]

The Irony is hes just become as bad as his father if not worse. The one thing he was scared of and hated the most.

there's plenty of irony

another being him wanting to be remembered as a great hero of the Horde
Well, he definatly will be remembered, but maybe not for the reasons he expects/wants

[khalltusk]

And yet Grom with WSG joined Thrall & orgrim to help out. Also followed Thrall without questioning him. I still blame Thrall for the war between NE's and WSG. It was he that forced Grom to stay in Ashenvale and build a camp. Because of the woods WSG cutted down, the war began.

In Thralls defense it was ignorance. He wanted Grom away from a potential fight with the humans as he was a liability he made a comment on his bloodlust was something he could not afford to have. So he sent him and his clan away to construct a camp/city while he went in search of this Oracle.

[Restors]

If other orcs don't value diplomacy, then maybe it's the time for non-orc Warchief, or indeed - non-orc Horde. The orcs can fight their wars alone.

I agree and disagree.. I agree that something needs to be done, but a non-orc warchief? I might buy that blizzard puts someone in charge who have the same believes as Thrall, but the orcs are the heart of the horde, as much as humans are for the alliance, would be kind of hard for me to follow a non-orcish warchief.

[Ceece]

who is exactly are these "innocents" that your talking about?

For one, the druids and anyone who got in his way in Ashenvale/Stonetalon. I doubt he was gathering resources peacefully.

[Dreknar20]

He wanted Grom away from a potential fight with the humans as he was a liability he made a comment on his bloodlust was something he could not afford to have. .

In hind-sight, he should have taken Grom with him. Thrall needed to slaughter humans to get to the Oracle anyways

---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 11:16 AM ----------

For one, the druids and anyone who got in his way in Ashenvale/Stonetalon. I doubt he was gathering resources peacefully.

thats how war works.
A nation cannot gain power/land without taking. For someone to gain, someone else has to lose.

[Deleted]

What about this doesn't make sense? The guy is a complete monster to the entire Alliance, and has zero regard for about 90% of the Horde too. He's ALWAYS had little support from the playerbase compared to his detractors, and that was long before they decided to shake up their plans and make that canon.

Sadly Varian was a complete dick to the Horde as well, but it seems he's undergoing a personality shift away from the Garrosh clone he was in wrath.

Would have been fun to have Varian as the final boss of MOP.

[Deleted]

Trade...something the Night Elves refused to do

The ongoing deforestation of Ashenvale and wrecking of Azshara by goblins might have something to do with that. Nelfs and Horde have a common link: the Cenarion Circle. They could feasibly work out an agreement, but then you can't have a tyrant in charge for that.

Orc presence in Ashenvale is on a borrowed time anyway, with Stormrage AND Cenarius active nowadays.

And its better to own said resources than to have to pay for them.

...then Garrosh will reap what he sow. By the same philosophy, it's better to depose/kill the warmonger who keeps taking your stuff than to ignore him.

thats how war works.
A nation cannot gain power/land without taking. For someone to gain, someone else has to lose.

That's pretty much the long and short of it: if you decide that the strongest rules, you have to accept that one day you might not be the strongest anymore.

Garrosh made his bed, and now he'll be destroyed at his own game, by his own rules.

[Deleted]

Loooooooooooooooooooool, "a once great character and so on," Lololololololololol, Wahahahhahahahahahah, hahahhahahahhah , Bwahaahahhahahahahahhahaha, Rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl rofl....go get real..Good Writing Yes..and still are..NOT....okie decent..

Constructive criticism please.

[Trassk]

And yet Grom with WSG joined Thrall & orgrim to help out. Also followed Thrall without questioning him. I still blame Thrall for the war between NE's and WSG. It was he that forced Grom to stay in Ashenvale and build a camp. Because of the woods WSG cutted down, the war began.

rubbish. the warsong orcs were with the horde, and Thrall, who saw that anger and frustation, put them where they were in ashenvale to collect wood for orgrimmar, to keep them focused on something, instead of going on wanting to kill something. Yet they still did, with the night elves.

Warsong are the problem in this and there screwed up mentality, crying victim but always wanting more of it.

[khalltusk]

In hind-sight, he should have taken Grom with him. Thrall needed to slaughter humans to get to the Oracle anyways

---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 11:16 AM ----------


thats how war works.
A nation cannot gain power/land without taking. For someone to gain, someone else has to lose.

True, but then he might have attacked recklessly and got them selves in trouble. I do think Garrosh could have been given a different direction. After Thrall tells him in Nagrand about his father I would have preferred Garrosh to have been a character who like saurfang will dispense the warchiefs law but won't repeat mistakes of the past.

Pretty much what the younger saurfang would have been. infact fuck it why wasnt it garry who was killed at wrathgate and saurfang now our warchief :/

[Deleted]

and again..he is a million times worse than his father..get real..

[Venziir]

This makes no sense. The location of the dungeons was all across Azeroth. From Tol'vir to Vasj'ir the Horde was conquering and pillaging.

You still sat on your bum in Orgrimmar - waiting. I'm not talking about a story perspective though.

[Restors]

rubbish. the warsong orcs were with the horde, and Thrall, who saw that anger and frustation, put them where they were in ashenvale to collect wood for orgrimmar, to keep them focused on something, instead of going on wanting to kill something. Yet they still did, with the night elves.

Warsong are the problem in this and there screwed up mentality, crying victim but always wanting more of it.

and without WSG clan, orcs would still be imprisoned by the humans. Who do you think set all the orcs free, Thrall and orgrim themselves? Frostwolf clan in their emo state and Blackrock clan following Rend blackhand. Thrall managed alot only with the help of the remaining free orcs of WSG.

[Ceece]

thats how war works.
A nation cannot gain power/land without taking. For someone to gain, someone else has to lose.

Again, I know this. Are you trying to teach a lesson, or are you trying to state that killing innocent people is right? That Garrosh is doing the right thing. Seems like you're avoiding the entire subject of: innocents dying.

[Dreknar20]

The ongoing deforestation of Ashenvale and wrecking of Azshara by goblins might have something to do with that.

I was talking more about the time before Cataclysm, during the Shattering

The Night Elves were not in a talking mood for diplomacy

---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 11:26 AM ----------

Again, I know this. Are you trying to teach a lesson, or are you trying to state that killing innocent people is right? That Garrosh is doing the right thing. Seems like you're avoiding the entire subject of: innocents dying.

still confused as to which people you are saying are innocents....
You mean civilians being killed and displaced?
Thats how war and conquering works, it is literally impossible for civilian populations to be un-scathed during war

[Deleted]

I was talking more about the time before Cataclysm, during the Shattering

The Night Elves were not in a talking mood for diplomacy

Before the Cataclysm?

The Horde had set up camp in Ashenvale, goblin shredders and all, back in Warcraft 3 and never left.

[Dreknar20]

I do think Garrosh could have been given a different direction. After Thrall tells him in Nagrand about his father I would have preferred Garrosh to have been a character who like saurfang will dispense the warchiefs law but won't repeat mistakes of the past.

It really should have been like that.
The son of Grom Hellscream had more potential than what is happending now

Plus I really do not like the idea of civil war, of Horde killing Horde

[Restors]

Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
I was talking more about the time before Cataclysm, during the Shattering

The Night Elves were not in a talking mood for diplomacy
Before the Cataclysm?

The Warsong had set up camp in Ashenvale, goblin shredders and all, back in Warcraft 3 and never left.

And I guess killing off their demi-god cenarius didn't make things any easier

[Deleted]

And I guess killing off their demi-god cenarius didn't make things any easier

The Horde saved the world tree from being humped by Archimonde, and Cenarius came back and is like "its cool bro" to the Horde in cata.

[Ceece]

/COLOR]
still confused as to which people you are saying are innocents....
You mean civilians being killed and displaced?
Thats how war and conquering works, it is literally impossible for civilian populations to be un-scathed during war

Let me try to explain it so you understand.

Prime example:

the druids and anyone who got in his way in Ashenvale/Stonetalon.

Civilians, everyday individuals are the innocents. Pretty sure you knew what I was talking about anyhow. You don't have to explain how war works -- I'm perfectly informed on how it does. You're still trying to teach a lesson, and avoiding what I'm talking about. Do you feel it's right to kill innocent, everyday individuals? Why would anyone want to side with such hatred?