View Poll Results: As a Horde player, would you rather side with the Darkspear Rebellion or Warchief?

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  • Darkspear Rebellion

    340 71.58%
  • Warchief

    135 28.42%
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  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Back off a bit? It took months for Hamuel to even gain an audience
    How long would it have taken after they were killed again? Years?

    Meanwhile the Horde situation was getting worse.
    So instead of waiting months, Garrosh worked his magic, and... now it's the worst it's been since the Second War. The Horde is barely holding together as it is, and it turns out leading all-out war on all fronts, while simultaneously alienating your allies gets you many, many enemies.

    Guess what - apparently the quick and easy way is, as usual, neither quick nor easy. Thrall took hardships slow, it wasn't perfect but it was working out. Garrosh gambled for the big payout, and lost.

    Yes, it's orcish, it's (old) Horde-ish, and now he'll fall just like every warchief of the old Horde did.
    Last edited by earthwarden; 2013-05-17 at 12:12 PM.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Yet the whole point of WoW is to kill things and then loot their poor corpses
    And yet it depends on the situation at hand. In reality, I assume you wouldn't agree that these actions are the right ones.

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by katji View Post
    And yet it depends on the situation at hand. In reality, I assume you wouldn't agree that these actions are the right ones.
    well thats the difference, in reality war is terrible
    In a game its freakin awsome

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 12:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by earthwarden View Post
    So instead of waiting months.
    I took a few months just for Hamuel to agree to a meeting.
    It would have taken much longer, maybe indefinatly, to gain such a meeting again
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  4. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthwarden View Post

    Guess what - apparently the quick and easy way is, as usual, neither quick nor easy. Thrall took hardships slow, it wasn't perfect but it was working out. Garrosh gambled for the big payout, and lost.
    And this is EXACTLY why Thrall was the better leader, always will be. The orcs that complained, they wanted a quick solution to there problems. They didn't want to work for it, despite all the shit they once caused, some of them wanted a fast, violent solution, where as other orcs were content with working with the other horde races, and building there lives up from scratch.

    The ones who caused this shit in the current situation, are those orcs that were not content with waiting it out, they wanted fast results, and now, the entire horde hates them and there leader.

    Thrall had it right all along.
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  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by one_entity View Post
    Down with the bastard! Besik Kampfire for Warchief!
    Or you know, since the majority of races within the horde are tribal by nature they should just give up on big government and go their own ways.
    I think it would actually be interesting to see the diplomatic fence lines removed from wow allowing any member of any race to fight for any cause they deem appropriate.

    There would of course still be plenty of wars/strife, they just wouldn't be horde vs alliance.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    I took a few months just for Hamuel to agree to a meeting.
    It would have taken much longer, maybe indefinatly, to gain such a meeting again
    What about the rest of my points? Leading a war on every available front stretching your forces thin, pissing off every nation around, leveling a whole city - and an almost-neutral one to boot (which is worse than what his commander did in Stonetalon with the goblin bomb... and Garrosh KILLED him for that, so that's some hypocrisy), encroaching on a newly discovered land disregarding the wishes and rights of its friendly inhabitants? Not to even mention alienating own allies?

    Even if his motives are "we need stuff, we can't wait (arguably)", his ways are unreasonable, and it's only fair that the pendulum swings back and clocks him right in the face.

    He's taking the Horde back to the Dark Ages, with methods which incidentally had destroyed it twice in the past.

  7. #187
    Garrosh was an asshole in Cataclysm. In Mist he is a full blown dictator, with ambitions for world conquest. That is enough reason for the Alliance to want him dead.

    But the Horde?

    Garrosh returned from Northrend a winner, and was praised for his leadership (even though Saurfang is the whole reason he technically succeeded). The bulk of his army, Kor'Kron, was Orc. So an already prideful Orc gets praise for things he didn't achieve, which in his mind, was done mostly by the Orcs.

    In Cataclysm, he is clearly confused with how to act. You have moments like Stonetalon, where he attempts to mend relations with Tauren by looking compassionate, and then you have his conversation with Vol'Jin, in which his racism is seen first hand. What does this mean? Garrosh is a douche bag who is trying to cover it up and look good in front of the Horde, but clearly can not do so. So by Twilight Highlands, he doesn't care what the other races think, as long as his Orcs support him, which is why he did that rediculousily stupid attack on the Alliance in the intro.

    Then ToW came. Before that, the non-Orc races were distrusting of him, but his actions in Tides of War, showing how willing he is to sacrifice Horde lives just to sate his bloodlust, and the level of destruction he's willing to bring to the Alliance, scared the non-Orc races in the Horde. They were literally all, by the end of ToW, in the Horde out of fear for their people. (VJ and Baine were, LT and Sylvanas didn't know how bad he was yet)

    Then in Mists, the opportunity arrived. The Alliance has entered the war full swing, Garrosh has deployed the majority of his army against the Alliance, and both armies are focused on Pandaria. This is the perfect chance for VJ and Baine to rebel, which is clearly happening. Garrosh' actions in Mist (which are all in character), alienate the Blood Elves as well, and the Forsaken never really needed a reason to go against Garrosh, so there you go. Essentially the whole Horde is turning against him, and it all happened in the course of 2 expansions.

    But in 5.4 Garrosh will have
    -A Mogu Watcher (remember how Lei Shen got so strong?)
    -Control over the Sha
    -Heart of Y'Shaarj

    So he NEEDS to go asap, hence the siege.

  8. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    well thats the difference, in reality war is terrible
    In a game its freakin awsome
    Now that we got that out of the way. Let's talk about Garrosh, and how he could have taken a different direction. I'll admit he one's of my favorite characters. He was a good asset for warchief, and he brought something to the Horde, that should and will be remembered. He stood vigilant against opposing enemies at times, while the other Horde leaders were becoming soft. He deserved a better storyline. Yet I don't think it turned out as bad. The only thing I don't agree with is Alliance and Horde working together. Hopefully something will spark from this, yeah?

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by skrump View Post
    Or you know, since the majority of races within the horde are tribal by nature they should just give up on big government and go their own ways.
    I think it would actually be interesting to see the diplomatic fence lines removed from wow allowing any member of any race to fight for any cause they deem appropriate.

    There would of course still be plenty of wars/strife, they just wouldn't be horde vs alliance.
    oh yes, I'm sure that will sell well.

    Even with the alliance having less impact storywise then horde, at least the alliance were banded together.
    Big thanks to Davillage for awesome signature

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by earthwarden View Post
    Thrall took hardships slow, it wasn't perfect but it was working out..
    Was it working out that well?
    The Horde was suffering from severe supply problems, mostly due to drought. And the diplomatic mission sent to provide some relief got completely fucked up. (Though technically none of those are due to Thrall's faults)
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  11. #191
    Quote Originally Posted by earthwarden View Post
    What about the rest of my points? Leading a war on every available front stretching your forces thin, pissing off every nation around, leveling a whole city - and an almost-neutral one to boot (which is worse than what his commander did in Stonetalon with the goblin bomb... and Garrosh KILLED him for that, so that's some hypocrisy), encroaching on a newly discovered land disregarding the wishes and rights of its friendly inhabitants? Not to even mention alienating own allies?

    Even if his motives are "we need stuff, we can't wait (arguably)", his ways are unreasonable, and it's only fair that the pendulum swings back and clocks him right in the face.

    He's taking the Horde back to the Dark Ages, with methods which incidentally had destroyed it twice in the past.
    The only thing I agree that needed to be done was getting rid of Theramore. Only reason I say that due to what happened in Cataclysm. Prior to that I had no problem with it but Jaina used it to ferry alliance troops onto the hordes door step. the same reason she went batshit crazy at the sunreavers. That bitch has it coming.

  12. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by babo7000 View Post
    Garrosh returned from Northrend a winner, and was praised for his leadership (even though Saurfang is the whole reason he technically succeeded). The bulk of his army, Kor'Kron, was Orc. So an already prideful Orc gets praise for things he didn't achieve, which in his mind, was done mostly by the Orcs.
    yeah, that is total bullshit
    So is the whole "Stonetalon was a cover-up thing"

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 12:30 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by katji View Post
    He stood vigilant against opposing enemies at times, while the other Horde leaders were becoming soft. He deserved a better storyline.
    well like I said in another post, the story-line and gameplay is great, as always
    But from a Horde pride standpoint , least for me, it sucks ass
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  13. #193
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    The only thing I agree that needed to be done was getting rid of Theramore. Only reason I say that due to what happened in Cataclysm. Prior to that I had no problem with it but Jaina used it to ferry alliance troops onto the hordes door step. the same reason she went batshit crazy at the sunreavers. That bitch has it coming.
    First of all, the city was destroyed with everyone in it, and Garrosh killed his own loyal soldier for less.

    Second, Theramore was still an Alliance town, the difference was that Jaina and Thrall were friends, so negotiations could be done. The flying Dalaran was neutral, full stop (and Alliance until WC3), until Garrosh decided to use it for war.

  14. #194
    I don't get why people even like or hate Garrosh. He was an emo moppy panzy in TBC, he was a naive fool in WotLK, an insignificant derp in Cata and all of a sudden he becomes a complete douche. He suffers from multiple personality disorder, terrible writing and I really fail to understand why anyone can even give a crap about this poor hamfisted villian.
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  15. #195
    Thats why I 'hate' him really, it's a lousy written character that needs to go away. The fact that the darkspear are leading the charge is nice bonus though.

  16. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    well like I said in another post, the story-line and gameplay is great, as always
    But from a Horde pride standpoint , least for me, it sucks ass
    It's not like Alliance is perfect, either. The way that each faction is portrayed, makes the leaders look like carebears. Garrosh on the other hand... has pride.

  17. #197
    Quote Originally Posted by Ansible View Post
    I don't get why people even like or hate Garrosh. He was an emo moppy panzy in TBC, he was a naive fool in WotLK, an insignificant derp in Cata and all of a sudden he becomes a complete douche. He suffers from multiple personality disorder, terrible writing and I really fail to understand why anyone can even give a crap about this poor hamfisted villian.
    Actually, rather than "multiple personality" I'd say it's a pretty predictable outcome of stupidity (apparent from the Ulduar trailer at least) + power + lack of respect for authority + inferiority complex.

    He was always brash and dumb, then he got too big shoes to fill (Thrall's fault) and got from bad to worse.

    Varian was going the same way, but he at least respected Jaina and had his son's influence to reel him in and not go full Garrosh.

  18. #198
    Quote Originally Posted by earthwarden View Post
    First of all, the city was destroyed with everyone in it, and Garrosh killed his own loyal soldier for less.

    Second, Theramore was still an Alliance town, the difference was that Jaina and Thrall were friends, so negotiations could be done. The flying Dalaran was neutral, full stop (and Alliance until WC3), until Garrosh decided to use it for war.
    I full well know but from a military POV I agree with Theramore going down. Dalaran was neutral, but Theramore was used in the same manner that Dalaran was and she went apeshit over it. thats what makes me laugh about her.

  19. #199
    I don't hate him much, he's just a fairly contrived and predictable character at this point. I'd like to see him go however it happens.
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  20. #200
    Quote Originally Posted by khalltusk View Post
    I full well know but from a military POV I agree with Theramore going down. Dalaran was neutral, but Theramore was used in the same manner that Dalaran was and she went apeshit over it. thats what makes me laugh about her.
    Again, the whole difference was the neutrality, and she evicted/incarcerated the Sunreavers, didn't wholesale slaughter them. There were few casualties.

    Also, the leader of the Kirin Tor himself died in the mana bomb explosion, so there's that.

    Lastly, there's also the matter of Jaina having just lost her whole remaining "family", her city being left a hole in the ground, and herself being disfigured by the attack, so that's some restraint right there. If she played by rules Garrosh himself had set, she'd have every right to level Orgrimmar right there.
    Last edited by earthwarden; 2013-05-17 at 12:56 PM.

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