Poll: As a Horde player, would you rather side with the Darkspear Rebellion or Warchief?

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  1. #361
    Quote Originally Posted by Tripping View Post
    If anyone sides with Garrosh, I will have them shot.

    He is an asshole. The stuff he has done to Theramore and using banned elementals to destroy Northwatch is unforgiveable considering the current state of Azeroth after Deathwings craze.
    Woah, watch out guys, gotta badass over here. I side with Garrosh. he's fuckin awesome.
    Last edited by Last Starfighter; 2013-05-19 at 02:09 AM.

  2. #362
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    My conclusion? People need to stop looking to "good and evil" theme.

    Garrosh is a proud douchebag with daddy issue. That doesn't make him evil, makes him a proud douchebag with daddy issue.

    Could he been a better orc? Yes, but Magatha Grimtotem killed the one advisor that could set him right. Since then, the constant pushing back from Alliance led Garrosh more and more to tyranny.
    Hey....Eitrigg was a somewhat useful advisor too

    Cairne ultimatly tried his best, but he did fall to the Twilight Hammer's deception
    Last edited by Dreknar20; 2013-05-19 at 01:17 AM.
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  3. #363
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkwarrior42 View Post
    If I have to read the books to understand the story of the game, that is a failure of Blizzard and makes the entire point unworthy of discussion.
    Wow this one is the top. You know that the very reason for which this game have a lot of paper is because a MMORPG is not the best kind of game for telling stories compared to a RTS right? That the majority of the player base are soft-hard-HARDER PvP guys or casual-medium-hardcore raiders that doesn't give a FUCK about the lore? You cannot pretend to have all the story in a game in which most players will simply ignore it.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-19 at 02:44 AM.

  4. #364
    Only as an Orc would I side with Garrosh, he's pretty much pissed off every other race but has done it to elevate the Orcs.

  5. #365
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Garrosh. Is. Not. GROM.

    And that stonetalon shit is litereally the ONLY THING anyone has in defense of Garrosh.


    Ok, let me give another example. In comparison to another bad guy, anyone who ever saw the hunchback of notre dame (disneys) will know the villian in that movie, Judge Claude Frollo. He too was a character who was about racism, violence, greed, lust, and every vice you can think of.
    Now Frollo had one scene of him about to kill quasimodo as a baby, but he's drawn back, not because he had a moment of humanity in him, but because he feared for his own soul if he killed a child, how god would look upon him for doing it.
    And the character never changed from this experience, he instead carried on his plan of wiping out a group of people, attempted murder, he had already killed an innocent woman beforehand, arson, and in the end, he learned nothing and only gave into his lust, greed and malice.

    Garrosh is the same sort of character, but just replace the concept of god with instead Garrosh trying to emulate his father, trying to 'make daddy proud'. Nothing Garrosh has ever done has truly been for the horde, it has always been his attempt to try and validate his existence, try and win his dead fathers approval, and thus making any twisted, nefarious act he committed validated on his personal level, nevermind the damage and death it caused to anyone else.
    I can agree with this to a point, but another big part of Garrosh's character is that he tries to impress the Orcs by being brutal. He was judged or praised a lot when he first entered the Horde, simply for being a brown orc. Some people saw him as weak, some people saw him as a sign of hope, some people were jealous, and some people only knew that he was a Hellscream and damned him (something that seems to happen in real life discussions of him as well).

    It would make sense that, if Garrosh was going to try to impress everyone, he would do things "the orc way" and try to show the might of the orcs. However, it's clear he simply took it too far at this point. Plus, his words have made himself many enemies.

  6. #366
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tauror View Post
    My conclusion? People need to stop looking to "good and evil" theme.

    Garrosh is a proud douchebag with daddy issue. That doesn't make him evil, makes him a proud douchebag with daddy issue.

    Could he been a better orc? Yes, but Magatha Grimtotem killed the one advisor that could set him right. Since then, the constant pushing back from Alliance led Garrosh more and more to tyranny.
    My guess anyway is that Garrosh it is not excatly the type of person that accepts easily honest criticism, especially if a non-orc do so. If an orc try to do so, he will simply ignore him instead of just outright insulting him (as he did with Vol'jin), like he probably did with Eitrigg.

    Garrosh's ideal council of advisors would be an epic bunch of "yes man".
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-19 at 02:49 AM.

  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    You cannot pretend to have all the story in a game in which most players will simply ignore it.
    Plus Thrall's "faults" and inner conflicts
    Wsnt that the whole point of the Elemental Bonds quest line in 4.1?
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  8. #368
    Scarab Lord Azgraal's Avatar
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    We get to throw some Orgrimmar's walls down and have that nutcase slain/sacked? Count me in!

  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    My guess anyway is that Garrosh it is not excatly the type of person that accepts easily honest criticism, especially if a non-orc do so.
    "Uncompromising and firecly proud" - last lines of his Bio
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  10. #370
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Plus Thrall's "faults" and inner conflicts
    Wsnt that the whole point of the Elemental Bonds quest line in 4.1?
    Exactly why I brought it up.

    Even if people don't like it, say it's bad writing or silly, the guy does have faults and inner conflicts. It's quality is beside the point. It's subject matter on the other hand...

  11. #371
    I would side with Garrosh for one reason only.

    Garrosh is a strong supporter of World PVP and he would provide us dailies of killing Alliance players

  12. #372
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Exactly why I brought it up.

    Even if people don't like it, say it's bad writing or silly, the guy does have faults and inner conflicts. It's quality is beside the point. It's subject matter on the other hand...
    The novel Thrall: Twilight of Aspects I think handled it better. The problem with Elemental Bonds in 4.2 was that it was a glaring case of the writers failing the premise of 'show don't tell' when it comes to character traits. We don't see those flaws affecting his actions or affecting his life. We see them shouted from the rooftop only for Aggra to help him overcome those flaws in the very same questline they're introduced in. Take Garrosh for example. We don't need his subconscious manifesting to tell us that he's ruthless and proud to a fault. For that questline to work, it would have needed to set up those character flaws in advance.

  13. #373
    all you spineless Garrosh hating pansies take your cuddly ideals and go join the alliance... take your bloodelves with you

    HELLSCREAM!!!!

  14. #374
    Quote Originally Posted by dariusz2k View Post
    I feel like they're underplaying the whole Jana going bats shit crazy thing personally.
    Did it ever occur to you that she's not acting like going bat shit crazy because she fucking DON'T go bat shit crazy?

  15. #375
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    Did it ever occur to you that she's not acting like going bat shit crazy because she fucking DON'T go bat shit crazy?
    Never trust human with such power. Her little brain is already unstable, we should kill her while she doesnt expect it.

  16. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Therougetitan View Post
    Pre-MoP I would have went with Garrosh.

    But in the past year they've written him to be despised in MoP, he isn't even the same Garrosh to me that knew of honor and is better off dead.
    Summarizes how I feel about Garrosh in MoP. In Cataclysm he wasn't that big of a douchebag, as he's only being aggressive for what's best of the Horde (other than racial leaders' tension between him and Sylvanas and Vol'jin). Now he's being aggressive for superiority through even more immoral means such as 'controlling' the Sha which I dislike.

  17. #377
    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    About the Stonetalon quest i think is overall speculation, Garrosh is not stupid, but not a fine plotter and schemer too, he's not the kind of character that thoughtfully study a malicious plan in his throne room.
    Well, he was schemer enough to plan or at least agree to somebody else's plan of murder of blue dragons and way to fool Kalec, did he?

  18. #378
    Titan Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Plus Thrall's "faults" and inner conflicts
    Wsnt that the whole point of the Elemental Bonds quest line in 4.1?
    It was, but that was also an occasion for Thrall's undying haters to see his desire to have a family like something TOO HOLY, GOOD, SWEETY CRAP and so he's still a mary sue (???)

    Quote Originally Posted by Florena View Post
    The novel Thrall: Twilight of Aspects I think handled it better. The problem with Elemental Bonds in 4.2 was that it was a glaring case of the writers failing the premise of 'show don't tell' when it comes to character traits. We don't see those flaws affecting his actions or affecting his life. We see them shouted from the rooftop only for Aggra to help him overcome those flaws in the very same questline they're introduced in. Take Garrosh for example. We don't need his subconscious manifesting to tell us that he's ruthless and proud to a fault. For that questline to work, it would have needed to set up those character flaws in advance.
    I think that the Elemental Bonds chain wasn't handled in the best way. However, different characters are different; some characters are supposed to sucumb to their flaws, others not; Thrall's way of handle them was to acknowledge them, not belive that he doesn't have, and then try to overcome them for follow a path in which he couldn't let himself be plagued by fears and doubts; so it's normal that beside the Elemental Bonds we don't see anymore a Thrall doubting all the time what he have to do, otherwise he would have miserably failed.

    However, grave consequences of bad choices took by him from the past still linger nowdays with the whole matter of Garrosh. In the 5.1, when he aids the Darkspear from the Kor'kron's roflstomping, he have doubts again, about which was the right choice to do, because he doesn't belive that kill his people until they miraculously change idea is the best thing to do, and in the 5.3 these doubts are again shown, reason for which he decides to go to Orgrimmar, for belive and be sure that not all the orcs sustain Garrosh.

    He didn't return saying "Haa haaaaa, Garrosh you dumbass sucker, i saved the world and i'm a perfect and flawless person now, i'll show you which is the coolest and right orc, you misbigotten whelp!"

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 02:28 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Sci View Post
    all you spineless Garrosh hating pansies take your cuddly ideals and go join the alliance... take your bloodelves with you

    HELLSCREAM!!!!
    You can take all your lust of dominance and mindless pride and join the Dark Horde. You'll miss the harsh desert of Durotar when you'll arrive at the Blackrock Mountain...
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-20 at 05:02 PM.

  19. #379
    Another reason people hate his 4.2 chain is that it derails the restoration of Nordrassil plot so it can end with Thrall's wedding, and that Staghelm's only major appearance outside of the raid was having him thrown a Thrall because lolprophecy rather than giving him any development with Malfurion, instead only having the Guardians of Hyjal encounter a character they made up for the patch in Leyara.

  20. #380
    Quote Originally Posted by SodiumChloride View Post
    I second this. He was already coming across as an incompetent prick in Cata.
    He was.

    But at least he was trying.

    Now he doesn't even have that going for him. All his principles and redeeming qualities were tossed right out the window like a shotput. He's no longer the brash but hoinourbale and principled orc, he's 100% raging douchenozzle.

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