1. #1
    High Overlord Mirean's Avatar
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    Question [Blood] Mastery, stats

    Hi,

    currently, on my blood DK (it's an alt), I have 518 ilvl and around 18k mastery (with raid buff), so I was wondering, if there's a point, where stacking, for example, stamina would have better results.
    We are beginning with ToT HC on our alt raid. Currently I'm often seeing that I can do blood shield for my max hp (cap) pretty easily, if it's some kind of a hard hitting boss (iron qon with 8+ stacks, for example).

    I was thinking going for 20k mastery and then either stamina, or haste/crit (for damage, the second tank is monk and I sometimes struggle to keep with his aggro. Well, not sometimes, almost all time)

    My armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...iraen/advanced


    What are your opinions?


    (btw. I have the agility neck, because it has mastery and it's much better than the tanking 476 I have in my bags. I will be going for the neck from council (I think it has crit and mastery) when it drops)

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  2. #2
    Hi Mirean,

    You are missing 5 expertise rating to reach the cap.
    You are missing 25 hit rating to reach the cap.
    So I assume, you are going for the precision build. I find it totaly OK, as the bosses at ToT do not hit that hard to justify stacking avoidance.
    At this point the important question is what are your healers comfortable with.

    I would try to mix up your gear a bit. There are some "DPS" mastery plates. Get them into the mix. This should improve the performance more than refoging/regeming "tank" gear out of mastery. * Mastery is still the top Stat to go for at any point (imo).

    EDIT:
    Some more point is forgot - wanted to clarify better.

    There is no thing as a SoftCap for Mastery. Go for it whenever you can. Other than that have a spare pair of trinkets as the fights wary (Magera zb. --> Mastery is weak, stamina strong).

    Pick up master+ haste pieces till the point you are comfortable with. Get the Hit and Expertise cap if you aim for it.
    And balance your Parry and Dodge even tho you are not going for avoidance.

    /run d=GetDodgeChance() n=3.22 b=5.01 if UnitRace("player")=="Gnome" then n=n-.01 end if UnitRace("player")=="Night Elf" then b=b+2 end p=235.5*d/90.6425-((235.5/90.6425)*b-n)+4 DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Ideal parry: "..string.format("%.2f",p))

    Formula taken from the Blood Guide.

    Best of luck!
    Last edited by Straido; 2013-05-17 at 02:11 PM.

  3. #3
    I would assume your mastery is relatively high compared to your health. There isn't a "cap" in theory but during fight there is, especially when you are fighting heavy damage heroic bosses, like Horridon, bats, etc, or magic heavy bosses. I would sacrifice some mastery for stam. Personally I'm going for maximum mastery + hit/exp cap by reforge, and stam>mastery for gem. Works pretty good for me. Ppl always debate on mastery/stam. But my opinion is, for lol bosses, you go mastery or EH, you can survive with either; but for tank check bosses, you have enough health you will survive, but your health is low compared to mastery, you will die. So why not have some health to be prepared.

    About dps stats you could go for some. But since you are doing heroic I would recommend you to have a full tank set, and get some replacement gears that aiming at more dps. This is what I did. For progression I use my full tank set, for farm boss (or progression but dps heavy instead of tanking) I use my hybrid set.

    Hope that will give you some idea.

  4. #4
    Just go for what you are comfortable with. The more Mastery, the easier to heal. The more Stamina, the less likely you are to die from instagib. The more other stuff, the more deeps you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Reniat View Post
    MAstery scales linearly, so there is no such thing as a cap. If you feel like you can benefit your raid more by sacrificing some mastery for dps, that's up to you, but that's because you have enough of a surplus of survival and your raid's dps is low not because mastery has an "overkill" %.
    Quote Originally Posted by Reniat View Post
    its 20% of the damage you take, so if you want to do 100% of the damage you take (which is the cap pragnoran was asking about) it's 500% (500% of 20% is 100%).

    If you want the cap where you would insta-cap mastery on a min shield you are correct in that it would be 1428.57%, which is 132.4k mastery if you're curious.

    Either way, we aren't likely going to reach either cap anytime soon.
    There IS a Mastery cap, but if you reach it, you win World of Warcraft.
    Call to arms, the trumpets sound
    Hand puppets storm the base, flags up now cannons rage
    All clowns head for the rear, slingshots fire to the air
    Toy horses start the charge, Robot chessmen standing guard
    Crossfire to the marionettes, Slip into the edge of death...

  5. #5
    I actually hardly doubt you'll get much more mastery as you advance through this content (due to bad itemisation on tank items) and you'll end up getting more stamina naturally from higher ilvl. So just stick to that route and have stam trinkets ready for those few special fights (tortos, council).

    Ps: rep damage neck has haste/mastery on it
    PPs: while mastery is more interesting going from almost zero dodge/parry to *some* actually adds quite a bit of avoidance even after DR

  6. #6
    High Overlord Mirean's Avatar
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    Thanks for advices...

    I don't have problems surviving at all (normal bosses), so I thought getting a little bit more dps wouldn't be so bad, especially in 10man raid (that's why I have the trinket from Primordius - I also have the tanking one from Ji'kun, but I find it pretty useless). Also, as I said, our monk has to stop dps when we switch, or he over-aggroes me.

    As you can see, on pieces where I have mastery, I reforge the other stat to: either hit, expertise or haste. Haste because of damage, and it also adds a little bit survivability as a bonus so it's not that bad in my opinion. ¨

    I will probably mix some gems to gain additional stamina, because I have a fear of Horridon's soft enrage (HC), ji'kun's talon rakes (HC), tortos snapping bite (HC), etc...

    i5-4670k @ 4.5GHz | Gigabyte Z87X-D3H | MSI R9 280 3G Gaming Overclocked @1125/1425MHz | 8GB DDR3 1600MHz CL9 RAM

  7. #7
    Mastery will continue to be your best survival gain until such a time where 3 standard boss hits (typically all you can fit within 1 death strike window) allow you to full BShield cap you on 1 use of death strike. For that to happen you'll have to be taking virtually 500% of your health pool within 5 seconds. Ie basically never going to happen.

    The dk gearing strategy is simple. Stamina until the point where you can no longer be instagibbed by non-CD abilities (ie standard melees, or something which occurs frequently). A good example of this would be Blackhorn where he could Melee, Devastate, and Disrupting Roar all within 1.5s of each other, and frequently enough that you couldn't CD through all of them without excessive CD usage. Once you can comfortably survive any non-planned spike a boss can put out then itemization becomes mastery > avoidance > haste > crit with accuracy stats often times rivaling or beating haste.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by dementedlogic View Post
    with accuracy stats often times rivaling or beating haste.
    You mean accuracy beating avoidance.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 02:05 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyCZ View Post
    I will probably mix some gems to gain additional stamina, because I have a fear of Horridon's soft enrage (HC), ji'kun's talon rakes (HC), tortos snapping bite (HC), etc...
    Unless you overcap on hit you're probably still better off using Stamina trinkets for horridon (never felt Tortos was any danger on hc due to 100% uptime on Bone Shield)
    Armories:
    Pally: Chiaki
    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  9. #9
    Accuracy plays next to no part in our active mitigation. Short of missing an outbreak or blood boil they offer little to no survival gain, only dps gain.

    If you are unsure about Death Strike not working (ie it doesn't need hit/exp to do what it's supposed to do) like every other tanks form of active mitigation:

    Your Death Strike healed You 0 Physical. (40743 Overhealed)
    Your Blood Shield refreshed You. (234307 Remaining)
    Your Death Strike Dodged Raider's Training Dummy. (Dodged)

    To simplify this further, here is a list of abilities that interact with Hit or Both.

    Just Hit - Blood Boil, Chains of Ice, Dark Simulacrum, Death and Decay, Death Coil, Icy Touch, Outbreak, Pestilence, Rune Strike

    Both - Dancing Rune Weapon, Death Strike (damage only), Heart Strike, Necrotic Strike, Plague Strike, Soul Reaper

    A grand total of 0 of those scale with survival for accuracy stats. The only ones you could argue are purely hit based (Outbreak, Blood Boil, Rune Strike) or receive an insignificant amount of use (IT/PS/Harmful Death Coils).

    At best you could swap this to Mastery > Hit (to 7.5%) > Avoidance > Haste = Expertise to 15% > Crit.

    Keep in mind this is speaking 100% about survival, not the gains of dps in a raid setting, especially that of a tank with how vengeance is.

  10. #10
    You make such a lengthy post just to state the obvious?

    Ya everyone knows that accuracy does next to nothing for survivability, but the same can be said about avoidance. On the other hand accuracy stats give a significant dps gain which is a lot more valuable in a 10m raid than the fairly insignificant and unreliable damage reduction from avoidance.
    Last edited by Nillo; 2013-05-18 at 02:21 PM.
    Armories:
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    Dk: Telare
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  11. #11
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    Ya everyone knows that accuracy does next to nothing for survivability, but the same can be said about avoidance. On the other hand accuracy stats give a significant dps gain which is a lot more valuable in a 10m raid than the fairly insignificant and unreliable damage reduction from avoidance.
    Sorry, what? You must be kidding...
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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    Sorry, what? You must be kidding...
    No I'm not.
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  13. #13
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nillo View Post
    No I'm not.
    So you basically wear DPS gear, with mastery, and roflstomp HC bosses?

    Amazing...
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    So you basically wear DPS gear, with mastery, and roflstomp HC bosses?

    Amazing...
    And.....?
    It's been like this the whole expension - a few bosses may require more stamina and on some avoidance actually does something (but those are the bosses you shouldn't tank as a dk) but almost every single boss can be made easier by bringing more dps.
    Armories:
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    Dk: Telare
    Warrior: Irlida

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by dementedlogic View Post
    Accuracy plays next to no part in our active mitigation. Short of missing an outbreak or blood boil they offer little to no survival gain, only dps gain.

    If you are unsure about Death Strike not working (ie it doesn't need hit/exp to do what it's supposed to do) like every other tanks form of active mitigation:

    Your Death Strike healed You 0 Physical. (40743 Overhealed)
    Your Blood Shield refreshed You. (234307 Remaining)
    Your Death Strike Dodged Raider's Training Dummy. (Dodged)

    To simplify this further, here is a list of abilities that interact with Hit or Both.

    Just Hit - Blood Boil, Chains of Ice, Dark Simulacrum, Death and Decay, Death Coil, Icy Touch, Outbreak, Pestilence, Rune Strike

    Both - Dancing Rune Weapon, Death Strike (damage only), Heart Strike, Necrotic Strike, Plague Strike, Soul Reaper

    A grand total of 0 of those scale with survival for accuracy stats. The only ones you could argue are purely hit based (Outbreak, Blood Boil, Rune Strike) or receive an insignificant amount of use (IT/PS/Harmful Death Coils).

    At best you could swap this to Mastery > Hit (to 7.5%) > Avoidance > Haste = Expertise to 15% > Crit.

    Keep in mind this is speaking 100% about survival, not the gains of dps in a raid setting, especially that of a tank with how vengeance is.
    Accuracy stats aren't completely worthless for survival, though.

    1) Missed Rune Strikes do not activate our T75 rune regen talent, resulting in fewer available Death Strikes.
    2) Missed melee attacks do not proc Scent of Blood, resulting in lower overall healing from DS compared to being hit/exp capped.
    3) A missed Outbreak requires you to spend two runes to apply diseases that you otherwise could have used on DS.

    You may get more overall damage reduction from ignoring hit/exp and going for Mastery > Avoidance > Accuracy, but you are subjecting yourself to more RNG and gimping your DPS for a very small survival benefit.

    Capping hit/exp at 7.5% each will cause you to lose 5500 total dodge/parry rating. How much actual percentage dodge/parry you lose depends on your gear due to diminishing returns, but for a typical tank in ToT gear, you'll probably lose maybe 2-3% total avoidance by doing so.

    The only times I would recommend prioritizing Avoidance instead of Accuracy are:
    1) You are going to tank big packs of adds. Pretty much every other tank is better suited for this task anyway.
    2) There is a dangerous mechanic that can only be negated by avoiding attacks. If there is a mechanic like this, it's probably designed around activating avoidance cooldowns like DRW to deal with it.
    3) Your raid absolutely doesn't need the extra DPS from you and you have no chance of running into threat issues with your co-tank and the dps. If this is occurring you are either overgearing content and don't need the extra survivability anyway, or you're undergeared/pushing bleeding edge progression and are going to experiment with different setups anyway.

    The only thing you gain from gearing for avoidance is a couple percent average physical damage reduction, the activation of which you cannot control. You lose significant DPS, predictable rune regen, and a small amount of overall healing from DS. In 10man my opinion is that this trade off is definitely not worth it. In 25man it is less clear, but I lean towards eliminating as many sources of RNG as possible when it comes to my survival.

    And yes, 10man is mostly tankable in DPS gear. Even with DPS gems/enchants/trinkets on some fights.
    Last edited by Cryopathy; 2013-07-29 at 08:59 PM.

  16. #16

    Just a bit of advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyCZ View Post
    Thanks for advices...

    Also, as I said, our monk has to stop dps when we switch, or he over-aggroes me.

    (HC), etc...

    Just a piece of advice that helped me with this issue.

    Save your Dancing Rune Weapon for when you switch tanks. It will greatly increase your threat generation. Ideally you want to pop DRW then apply diseases- which will apply double diseases. Then, if outbreak is available apply right before DRW ends, this way you have double diseases up for the longest duration possible. This also works with Soul Reaper (only use if target is under 35% of course). This way there will be no way your monk friend or anyone else will surpass your threat .
    Last edited by Copperfil; 2013-05-21 at 04:07 PM.

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