Stealing from a guild bank is OK

[Cyberowl]

How is it a GMs job to restore the items? It's your own (or your GMs) stupid fault for allowing it. >.>

[Kisho]

GMs don't intervene in social issues, which this is.

Your guild gave this person the permission to take the items, therefore it is your fault. You should only promote people you trust to an officer rank.

If a GM intervened on this, it opens the floodgates for them to intervene on other issues. Got guild kicked and didn't agree? Ask a GM to force you back into the guild! Another person took an item you wanted? GM intervention, hooooooo!

Players can and should sort out their own issues. GMs are there when the game breaks, and in this instance the game worked entirely correctly. It was your guild's fault for promoting this person to the officer rank, and giving him the ability to take the entire guild.

[Glaziola]

In my guild only my irl m8 got access and we share all the stuff in gbank including gold. I even give him the leadership of the guild when I dont play the game for longer period of time. We dont trust anyone else officer or not.

[loki504]

How is it stealing if he had access?

While I'm not one to rob a gb I'm also not stupid enough to grant free access to ours.

so people who have the job to empty atms and drive money from store to bank safely are allowed to take it because there boss gave them acces to it?

and i know i overreacted but its stupid to let some1 go free just because the gm gave him acces.
why not ban him mofo ass and let everybody learn to behave.

---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 10:59 AM ----------

GMs don't intervene in social issues, which this is.

Your guild gave this person the permission to take the items, therefore it is your fault. You should only promote people you trust to an officer rank.

If a GM intervened on this, it opens the floodgates for them to intervene on other issues. Got guild kicked and didn't agree? Ask a GM to force you back into the guild! Another person took an item you wanted? GM intervention, hooooooo!

Players can and should sort out their own issues. GMs are there when the game breaks, and in this instance the game worked entirely correctly. It was your guild's fault for promoting this person to the officer rank, and giving him the ability to take the entire guild.

while i somewhat agree its still a dick move. and with all the trouble on internet going on its time for people to behave on the internet or find out the consequences of there actions.

[Skorpionss]

well I hope this is a lesson for any GM not to trust random ppl joining the guild... only rl friends or very very old guild mate(older than 2-3 years) should have acces to guild bank to avoid this kinda drama ... if GM has no RL friends or guild matest that are have been in the guild for more than 2-3 years then he should be the only one with access to guild bank.

[Holas]

Claiming he is not a Thief is almost like claiming a cashier who steals money from the store she is working at is not one. The fact someone have access to something does not mean he is "allowed" to take it. If he did not do anything wrong then why did he leave guild?
I do not really understand these people - would some items on the internet really worth your integrity and honor? I am not even talking about how society looks down on you but how YOU see yourself.

How long did it take for him to be promoted to officer?

[Aqua]

He's a dick but you gave the dick permission. The tools to enforce security are there and you put your trust in someone you couldn't.
While in real life these rules obviously wouldn't fly, this isn't real life.

... What else can they do? Tell the server, ruin his rep, warn people off him. Sorry you misplaced your trust. I've been in my guild 3 years and am pretty trusted but even I don't have access to the guild bank. Deposit only. I just have to trust the leaders best interests are in the guild. And they are.

At most you should make a limited tab to share between members, but not to key items. 3 Withdrawals a day max as well, so you can curve unnecessary withdrawals and confront those abusing the system before it gets out of hand.

[Amerissis]

Claiming he is not a Thief is almost like claiming a cashier who steals money from the store she is working at is not one. The fact someone have access to something does not mean he is "allowed" to take it.

It is in this case, it's not comparable to stealing money as a cashier. This is someone who is allowed to shop for free in the store they work at, is expected to just take what they need and then proceeds to load the whole store inventory in their hired truck and leave.

The GM gives permission to withdraw a certain amount of items from certain tabs. It's not stealing if that's what the person does, withdraw those items. No where does it have a rule saying what you are allowed to use the item for. If you don't want someone to take everything, you should limit access to less items per day.

[loki504]

He's a dick but you gave the dick permission. The tools to enforce security are there and you put your trust in someone you couldn't.
While in real life these rules obviously wouldn't fly, this isn't real life.

... What else can they do? Tell the server, ruin his rep, warn people off him. Sorry you misplaced your trust. I've been in my guild 3 years and am pretty trusted but even I don't have access to the guild bank. Deposit only. I just have to trust the leaders best interests are in the guild. And they are.

At most you should make a limited tab to share between members, but not to key items. 3 Withdrawals a day max as well, so you can curve unnecessary withdrawals and confront those abusing the system before it gets out of hand.

well they could give him a 72 hour ban. and give him a warning. 3 strikes is out. this will enforce people to follow common rules. most people abey irl rules. but onlines rules are useless as most companys don't do anyting about it.

[Deleted]

It depends on the circumstances. I had someone impersonate my characters (they all have the same name pattern) to get promoted to mid-level, he took 10 stacks from each tab, left and then put it all on AH, stupidly put it on AH with his original character so I knew who it was. I reported it to a GM, he removed all of the auctions and put the items back.

[Retro89]

Wait wait wait..................there was an expensive item in the Guild Bank?!?!?!?

I've never seen anything worth over 50g in a guild bank.

[Aqua]

well they could give him a 72 hour ban. and give him a warning. 3 strikes is out. this will enforce people to follow common rules. most people abey irl rules. but onlines rules are useless as most companys don't do anyting about it.

No, no they shouldn't. Because you gave him permission, if there is no ingame text to imply there was a scuffle about it and he doesn't proclaim 'har har, I am a dastardly villain who has maliciously emptied the guild bank for the sole reason of profit! Screw you guys I'm going home etc etc'. There's no proof that you didn't allow it and change your mind later, it's a social affair, they gave you the tools to try and prevent such an event, but you stood in the fire... I have the tools in game to prevent that as well, if I die to standing in fire, sadly I don't get to blame the developers for creating the said fire or the rng for placing it where I stood. It just happened.

This is an issue that is only worked through with players or their intervention paves the way for more frivolous accusations where an innocent party might well be banned and turned off from the game.

[Ceece]

We recently had a member of our guild who was around for a bit, got promoted, took the expensive stuff from the guild bank almost instantly then left. Made a ticket and the GM told me this was OK to do, So if anyone fancies making a quick bit of gold just get into a guild and take everything from the guild bank and leave the guild, then sell on the AH or in trade.

Pretty sure it's not okay. Put in another ticket -- I know for a fact Blizzard is against this.

[Raelbo]

We recently had a member of our guild who was around for a bit, got promoted, took the expensive stuff from the guild bank almost instantly then left. Made a ticket and the GM told me this was OK to do, So if anyone fancies making a quick bit of gold just get into a guild and take everything from the guild bank and leave the guild, then sell on the AH or in trade.

I doubt Blizzard thinks such behaviour is OK. I doubt any GM thinks such behaviour is OK. And I seriously doubt they would have told you it was OK.

But that does not mean they are prepared to responsibility for the issue. This is an issue that Blizzard expects guilds and players to take responsibility for. Not because they want to make it easy for douchey people to be douches, but because if they get involved at this level it will consume huge amounts of GM time, which will have a potentially massive cost implication, especially given that these kinds of disputes are not always cut and dried.

The fact is that Guild Masters are equipped with all the tools they need to defend themselves from this kind of stuff. And if they don't use them, they will learn the hard way.

[Deleted]

So how it's stealing when someone takes stuff, that you gave him access to, from guild bank?

[Raelbo]

Pretty sure it's not okay. Put in another ticket -- I know for a fact Blizzard is against this.

Blizzard are against many things. That is why they give us appropriate tools to deal with the problem. Sending another ticket won't do anything except waste another GM's time.

[Taoforums]

When I was a GM back then, I set a limit of items per tab for people to take things. If they wanted more, they would just ask an officer or myself. Don't promote random dude who just got out of your trial period or someone you're not sure you can trust.

What the GM told you (rather, what I get from your post), was that it's OK to do so because you let it happen (or the person in charge of the guild is).

I doubt that it's the actual message, though. But hey.. from what OP wrote...

Have a nice day, and hope to learn from your mistakes.

[Deleted]

Why wouldn't it be okay? This is one the ways to make my own guild bank full Can't remember the last time I had anyone to farm for something.

[Vaelorian]

LOL really? You come onto these boards, sarcastically putting a title that says: Stealing from the guild bank is OK - expecting somekind of "there there now, dry your eyes and let me hug you - Blizzard is a lax in fixing these problems" -attitude from us?

Yes it is ok. Because it ain't stealing. Get it? Did this guy break into the guildbank? He did not. He got promoted which in turn opens up more access to the guildbank. He took that and then left. Sure its a morally wrong thing to do, but it is not stealing and as such is ok.

Tell your GM to set ranks and access properly.

Geez stop making these drama threads.

[Raelbo]

So how it's stealing when someone takes stuff, that you gave him access to, from guild bank?

It depends on the situation. Guild officers are generally given permission to take stuff from guild banks in order to perform their duties as officers. If someone takes items from the bank for personal gain, that becomes stealing, in exactly the same way as someone operating a till taking money out of it and putting it in his pocket would be stealing.

The fact that Blizzard won't enforce this issue, does not make the thief innocent. It just means they are allowed to get away with it. Personally I like to believe that what goes around comes around.

During Wrath, we added a new guild member. Through our own ineptitude we accidently gave him more rights than he was supposed to have. As a result, he was able to steal 5 stacks of gems, 5 stacks of cloth, 5 stacks of herbs etc. At the time we estimated our losses to be around 5K of gold (probably about 20K by today's standards).

We were annoyed, but not much we could do about it.

Anyhow a few months later this guy was "LF guild" in trade. So I responded in trade "Hey name. We're still LF all the stuff you took from our guild bank when you left".

A few seconds later I get a "WTF??" from him in whisper, so I prompt his memory by telling him that even though he had a name change, I had him on my friends list and I know he stole from us.

His defence was that he knew nothing about that because his kid cousin had been playing on his account.....

After I submitted this information to a GM, I never saw that character log on again.

Karma's a bitch :P