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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by loki504 View Post
    so people who have the job to empty atms and drive money from store to bank safely are allowed to take it because there boss gave them acces to it?

    and i know i overreacted but its stupid to let some1 go free just because the gm gave him acces.
    why not ban him mofo ass and let everybody learn to behave.
    On the first one: no, that wouldn't be acceptable, because it would be explicitly in the contract of employment that he is not to take any of the money. It's a different situation.

    For the second part, about just banning him to make an example? Here's an example of how the case is not as clearcut as you may like to think:

    Bob is a newly promoted officer in a guild. Jess is the guild master. Henry is another officer, been with the guild for a long time. Henry didn't approve of Bob's promotion but was over-ruled, because Jess believed Bob was trustworthy and could do a good job. Thus, Henry hatches a plan.

    He goes to Bob and asks to speak to him on ventrilo. He tells Bob that Jess asked him to clear out the guild bank so they could start afresh, get some useful stuff in there, clear out all the garbage. Only Henry has too much in his bags, oh no! So Henry asks Bob to do the job for him instead. Bob agrees, eager to prove himself as trustworthy, and he has no reason to suspect Henry's motivations.

    Bob then rushes off to the guild bank and starts clearing it out. Henry waits a bit, then sends a hurried text to Jess (who is offline at the time but has shared her mobile phone number with the officers in case of an emergency), telling her how Bob is stealing all of the guild bank! Henry can't demote Bob, they share the same rank, so he has to go to Jess. Jess then panics, logs in in a rush and gkicks Bob before he can do any more 'damage'. She also puts in a report with the Game Masters before Bob has a chance to explain himself. He then gets banned from the game, even though as far as he was aware he was doing what the guild wanted.

    As you can see, GMs intervening in social issues would only make the matter worse. In the above circumstance there may have been time to fix the issue before Bob was banned, to sort out the mis-understanding. But involving GMs will mean Bob gets banned (temporarily or otherwise), gets angry, perhaps ends up taking all the stuff for real, and it all just spirals out of control.

    Social issues are very tricky to mediate, so Blizzard do the right thing by just staying out of it entirely.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Not stealing.

    You gave them the allowance to take that much, and they did. If you didn't trust them, that is your own stupid fault.
    It IS stealing. But it's also not a GM issue, as has been said repeatedly here. This is one of the very few areas in the game where who you trust actually has an impact. Unfortunately, person rep does not.

  3. #43
    Brewmaster ACES's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raelbo View Post
    If someone takes items from the bank for personal gain, that becomes stealing...
    No it doesn't.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Doffy View Post
    We recently had a member of our guild who was around for a bit, got promoted, took the expensive stuff from the guild bank almost instantly then left. Made a ticket and the GM told me this was OK to do, So if anyone fancies making a quick bit of gold just get into a guild and take everything from the guild bank and leave the guild, then sell on the AH or in trade.
    The guild gave him the right to take stuff from the bank. That is not Blizz's fault, it is your guild's. The guild I am in, officers remove stuff if people want it - and to be an officer is 1+ years in the guild, not how much they do in guild or how funny/obscene their chat is, but how long they have been committed to the guild.

  5. #45
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    Bit of a shit situation and I think it will be your luck on what GM you get. Some will just tell you tough, where another will refund your items and in my opinion they should refund your items, your trust was betrayed by a fellow guild player, you had trust in to be an officer.

    To the people saying it's not stealing if he had access, it simply is.

    I have access to my companies bank account and could easily transfer money into my account if I wanted. If I got caught doing it, do you think I could just say 'lol, it's not stealing since I had access'.

    Ofc this is a game so different rules apply, morally it still is stealing though. This is just my opinion.
    Last edited by Tekkommo; 2013-05-17 at 01:21 PM.

  6. #46
    It's not theft since the items don't belong to the players. Besides, maybe you'll think next time before promoting someone to such a position of power who you don't even know.

  7. #47
    it's pretty much understood that if you have access to take it out, it's ok to take it out, within reason. If someone ninja's the whole guild bank (via being hacked, or just maliciously) the gm's may take action, but that's kinda rare.

    They took the same stance as they did in raids and dungeons: if you can roll need, there's nothing preventing you from doing so.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    On the first one: no, that wouldn't be acceptable, because it would be explicitly in the contract of employment that he is not to take any of the money. It's a different situation.

    For the second part, about just banning him to make an example? Here's an example of how the case is not as clearcut as you may like to think:

    Bob is a newly promoted officer in a guild. Jess is the guild master. Henry is another officer, been with the guild for a long time. Henry didn't approve of Bob's promotion but was over-ruled, because Jess believed Bob was trustworthy and could do a good job. Thus, Henry hatches a plan.

    He goes to Bob and asks to speak to him on ventrilo. He tells Bob that Jess asked him to clear out the guild bank so they could start afresh, get some useful stuff in there, clear out all the garbage. Only Henry has too much in his bags, oh no! So Henry asks Bob to do the job for him instead. Bob agrees, eager to prove himself as trustworthy, and he has no reason to suspect Henry's motivations.

    Bob then rushes off to the guild bank and starts clearing it out. Henry waits a bit, then sends a hurried text to Jess (who is offline at the time but has shared her mobile phone number with the officers in case of an emergency), telling her how Bob is stealing all of the guild bank! Henry can't demote Bob, they share the same rank, so he has to go to Jess. Jess then panics, logs in in a rush and gkicks Bob before he can do any more 'damage'. She also puts in a report with the Game Masters before Bob has a chance to explain himself. He then gets banned from the game, even though as far as he was aware he was doing what the guild wanted.

    As you can see, GMs intervening in social issues would only make the matter worse. In the above circumstance there may have been time to fix the issue before Bob was banned, to sort out the mis-understanding. But involving GMs will mean Bob gets banned (temporarily or otherwise), gets angry, perhaps ends up taking all the stuff for real, and it all just spirals out of control.

    Social issues are very tricky to mediate, so Blizzard do the right thing by just staying out of it entirely.

    first part. dunno about atm employee. but so far most contract don't go that far because its commen sense and law.

    second of all. you should be a writer. your amagination is wonderfull. and bob would leave the right after he took everyting and put it all on the ah right?
    because that is was happen a clear fact of stealing simple as that. sure the gm could have tighten up his security. but its a dickmove end of story.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-17 at 01:35 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Nekovivie View Post
    It's not theft since the items don't belong to the players. Besides, maybe you'll think next time before promoting someone to such a position of power who you don't even know.
    sorry but the items in the guild bank belong to the guild master.

  9. #49
    IN our bank Only the GM has access to things that are expensive, the other 4 tabs are for crap no one cares about.

    I can agree that the game's ticket support is shit. I had my account hacked in GW2 and it was closed because the hacker was botting, I had my account fully restored in less than 2 hours. I was then having an issue that I thought GW2 was causing and had a response in less than 15mins, in WOW it takes a minimum of 24 hours to get a response.

  10. #50
    Deleted
    You got rid of a worthless ass in your guild precisely and swiftly, I'd call that a bargain.

  11. #51
    Banned -Superman-'s Avatar
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    Not saying it is right... however...

    If they have permission, it is not stealing. When heading a guild, always put your expensive items in the last tab and make it for GM/Asst GM/Raid Leaders only. Put one or two people with enough access to move items around and clean up the tabs once in awhile. Giving someone full access like that, especially after a "short time" is a pretty silly move in any game.

  12. #52
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by loki504 View Post
    sorry but the items in the guild bank belong to the guild master.
    And guild master has the power to decide who has access to what items.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincayra View Post
    it's pretty much understood that if you have access to take it out, it's ok to take it out, within reason. If someone ninja's the whole guild bank (via being hacked, or just maliciously) the gm's may take action, but that's kinda rare.

    They took the same stance as they did in raids and dungeons: if you can roll need, there's nothing preventing you from doing so.
    Within reason = All you have access too! As the GM decided that that is the reasonable amount for you. On the other hand, we have had an officer getting hacked and the hacker clearing out our GB. Everything was restored within hours!

    To come back to people saying this is the same as a cashier bringing him the cash from shopping in the store. ITS NOT!
    As someone who's worked in several stores I can tell you that normally (atleast in The Netherlands) its not uncommon to see contractual agreements about how to handle the cash. Often through a cash handling policy or company policy. Which means you can't take it home and decide that it's yours.

    It would be the same to working in a store and having your manager say: "Well Ethes, you can take out 5 items from the store for lunch every day that you work 5h+." And because there is a special action with laptops that week, I decide to take 5 laptops for lunch. Sure its douchy, not nice and I'd be plainly screwing the store. But he told me I was allowed to do so. No restrictions, no nothing! Too bad for him really..

    The fact that I wouldn't because my moral standard is high enough (just barrely xD) to not do such things is a different arguement.

  14. #54
    Deleted
    its not stealing if you're allowing him to take those items in the first place. If you dont want people to takes stuff and leave after then dont have an open bank to member.

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