Ele vs Enh in Raidbots

[Deleted]

I've always played Enhancement, but am thinking to switch to Elemental for some fights. When I checked raidbots for some info how is each spec doing on different bosses I got confused. If you take top 100 parses Elemental looks a lot better then Enhancement. But if you check all parses things look much more close. Is Elemental much more RNG dependent? What could be the reason for this. Is the dmg in top 100 parses something you aim for, or something you hope for?
Any advice is welcome.

[Raiju]

Unless you're significantly behind the curve on gear or doing mechanics that stop you making the most of your dps - top 100 is something to aim for not to hope for.

[Deleted]

Essentially two main factors;

1) There are a lot more Elemental shamans than Enhancement, especially in 10mans.

2) There are a LOT of very well geared Elemental shamans, most top 100 ranks for Elemental, in 10s at least, are using 535+ weapons and trinkets. Enhancement's weapons drop from the latter difficulty bosses for the most part, and since so much of their damage is based from weapons, that could also be a contributing factor.

TL;DR - There are more Elementals, and more with better gear.

As a side note, damage as Elemental depends a lot on your raid setup, e.g. if you have a good DPS warrior in your raid group, you'll have a hard time getting off enough AoE to rank high when you have Bladestorm one-shotting things. All of these factors skew things like Raidbots.

I play both specs (ilv is something like Ele 528, Enhc 525) and I find Enhancement does higher single target damage (Jin'Rohk), whilst Elemental is good for movement and AoE (like Lei Shen, Twins, Horridon etc) due to the ramp-up times spreading FS. It's largely fight dependant, plus all of the factors mentioned above.

[kosajk]

elemental should ba atm a bit beter dps wise, expecially on cleave and aoe fights
its why enh gets in 5.3 upgrade to mental quickness from 55% to 65% ap to sp conversion along with 20% increse on SS and LL which acording to blizzard should make enh and ele closer dps wise

[Embermoon]

Unless you're significantly behind the curve on gear or doing mechanics that stop you making the most of your dps - top 100 is something to aim for not to hope for.

And, unless someone is in one of those top guilds, or else is on one of the crazy servers where PuGs are downing heroic content, then they're definitely going to be lacking in gear.

[Socialhealer]

As a side note, damage as Elemental depends a lot on your raid setup, e.g. if you have a good DPS warrior in your raid group, you'll have a hard time getting off enough AoE to rank high when you have Bladestorm one-shotting things. All of these factors skew things like Raidbots.

you forget a warrior helps a lot with skull banner :P

[Raiju]

And, unless someone is in one of those top guilds, or else is on one of the crazy servers where PuGs are downing heroic content, then they're definitely going to be lacking in gear.

If top 100 is populated by 535's and over and you're in say 530 it isn't unrealistic to reach it still.

If you're looking 20+ ilvls below you are probably gonna struggle and it's a bit unrealistic for top 100 though.

[Deleted]

My main question was about rng and Elemental. Because as I said in the first post Enh is doing better on all parses then Ele and the opposite is true for top 100, I was wondering if Ele is more dependent on lucky procs and crits then Enh.

[Raiju]

My main question was about rng and Elemental. Because as I said in the first post Enh is doing better on all parses then Ele and the opposite is true for top 100, I was wondering if Ele is more dependent on lucky procs and crits then Enh.

They're both fairly dependent on burst so naturally any variation during burst will have a lasting effect.

[flak]

Especially if you looked at 10's enhancement shaman are likely to be doing significant healing.

[Thedoja]

Especially if you looked at 10's enhancement shaman are likely to be doing significant healing.

Probably one of the most overlooked benefit to having a GOOD enhancement shaman in your raid. Nothing beats saving the tank/healer with a 150k Crit instant Healing Surge. Add in the HST Glyph on elemental based dmg fights and you are mitigating 10% dmg for your tank as well. Suck it rogues

[Endus]

Don't go by Top 100 at all. Top 100 has RNG as a major influence; things went really right for those players, in ways that you can't predict. The players are typically very good, too, but they need the gods of RNG to smile to break into the Top 100, typically.

If you want to know how you're doing, use epeenbot on the same site; enter your name and realm, and as long as you've been uploading to WoL, it will rank each parse of yours in percentile terms; whether you placed in the 35th percentile, or 85th, or what have you, for everyone in your class. This is a MUCH more useful measure, particularly as it tracks each parse independently; if you're struggling a the 50th percentile or so, and change things up, and for the next few weeks you're in the 85th percentile, whatever you changed was a really good fix.

[Raiju]

Don't go by Top 100 at all. Top 100 has RNG as a major influence; things went really right for those players, in ways that you can't predict. The players are typically very good, too, but they need the gods of RNG to smile to break into the Top 100, typically.

No. Plenty of current high end guilds could provide their WoL's to prove this wrong where the same players will get top 100's almost every week without fail. I used to do it myself back in wrath/early cata. You do not need some godly RNG (not for shaman) to break top 100.

[Endus]

No. Plenty of current high end guilds could provide their WoL's to prove this wrong where the same players will get top 100's almost every week without fail. I used to do it myself back in wrath/early cata. You do not need some godly RNG (not for shaman) to break top 100.

Those would be people who are better-geared than most, at the time you're talking. Once everyone is geared up, damage will vary by a good 3-5% or so, depending on the spec in question, and that's absolutely a broad enough range to allow for RNG's influence to rise to the fore.

In the early stages of content, the same names dominate, because they're in the top guilds gearing up faster, and thus have a gear advantage over the majority. Near the end, it isn't nearly as true.

[Raiju]

Those would be people who are better-geared than most, at the time you're talking. Once everyone is geared up, damage will vary by a good 3-5% or so, depending on the spec in question, and that's absolutely a broad enough range to allow for RNG's influence to rise to the fore.

In the early stages of content, the same names dominate, because they're in the top guilds gearing up faster, and thus have a gear advantage over the majority. Near the end, it isn't nearly as true.

And yet I am talking about guilds in the top 500, not top 50.

[Endus]

And yet I am talking about guilds in the top 500, not top 50.

And?

I've been following WoL for years. Once gear equalizes, RNG becomes a very relevant factor in the top parses. You'll still see regular occurrences by those who perform in the 98th percentile for their class, but if they have a bad day and drop to the 95th due to RNG, that can drop them off the list, while someone who never hits the Top 100 can have a really good day with RNG, and rank for the first time.

RNG is a 3-5% variation in your performance, in general. It's non-negligible.

Besides which; I guarantee the players in the top 500 guilds aren't all parsing in the top 100 all the time, and nobody outside of that ever ranks. I know that for a fact, since I ranked regularly, and my guild was definitely NOT Top 500.

[Nitwit]

Those would be people who are better-geared than most, at the time you're talking. Once everyone is geared up, damage will vary by a good 3-5% or so, depending on the spec in question, and that's absolutely a broad enough range to allow for RNG's influence to rise to the fore.

In the early stages of content, the same names dominate, because they're in the top guilds gearing up faster, and thus have a gear advantage over the majority. Near the end, it isn't nearly as true.

Eh. Not sure if I really buy this logic.

Looking at my historical epeenbot records, I'm not seeing any noticeable drop in my percentile rankings as tiers progress. There are certainly week-over-week variations, but they tend to cancel each other out (as expected), and they're not dramatic unless I died or disconnected or something.

[Deleted]

The point of my question was not to see how I do compared to others, but to choose which spec to use for different bosses. Top 100 parses shows Ele as better on most fights, while on all parses things are much closer. That was what I wanted to hear opinions about.
Thanks for all answers even if not really answering my question

[Endus]

Eh. Not sure if I really buy this logic.

Looking at my historical epeenbot records, I'm not seeing any noticeable drop in my percentile rankings as tiers progress. There are certainly week-over-week variations, but they tend to cancel each other out (as expected), and they're not dramatic unless I died or disconnected or something.

Week-over-week variations are exactly the point, though. You may be top 100 one week, and not the next, due to RNG rather than any performance change. They're not dramatic, they're a few percentage points, but with thousands of parses a week for your spec, that's enough to knock you out of the Top 100.

That's why I recommended epeenbot; if you're at the 35th percentile one week and the 75th the next and then back to the 25th, something is really wrong with your gameplay. If you're usually sub-50%, you can almost certainly improve your rank by performing better. If you're usually in the 95th percentile or so, you might be the 97th one week, the 93rd the next, but that's fine; that's RNG variation.