Thread: Prot Tier Set?

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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ansekh View Post
    EJ and theck prioritize avoid taking damage taken more than most 10 man tanks do, but they prefer dps less than some 10 man tanks do. Or atleast than I do.

    Hit/dodge would be better for the raid IF, and only if the haste/crit item is needed more by a dps.
    That is waaaaay too vague and generalized to ever be true.

    A better rule is: Always go for Haste/Mastery/Accuracy gear. Failing that, go for Haste/Crit. Avoidance gear is only useful if it is a marked increase in ilvl (i.e. 13+), else you're better off keeping an item that is better itemized.

    Example (happened to me):

    I had a Exp/Mastery helmet from t14H (509). It's not the best itemized (no haste) but it's not terrible.
    A 522 Dark Animus helmet drops (haste/crit). Me and the Ret/DPS DK both can use it. Personally, I'd pass it to the Ret/DPS DK (unless they're going to use tier helm). IF they're going to use tier, it's likely better for you to take it, as it's a really solid helm. I passed it to DPS.
    A 535 Horridon helm drops (dodge/parry). It's shitty itemization, but it's a 26 ilvl upgrade over what I'm using, so I take it.

    Eventually I'll move to HC tier or HC Animus helm, whichever drops first.

    Since then, I got a 522 Animus helm, but don't use it over the 535 D/P helm. The haste is great, but the crit holds it back some. Add to that, it's lower ilvl and I ended up just sticking with the Horridon helm.

    Obviously, everyone's opinions will vary and differ based on loot luck, comp, and preference. And that's exactly why you can't make sweeping generalizations about what is or is not better for everyone's raid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  2. #22
    May i ask what exactly a prot pala gains from crit?
    Its the stat that scales best due to vengeance afaik, thus giving more dps and selfheal/raidheal, but does it give any sort of mitigation?
    Just dont see why some people advocate crit > parry/dodge, id like to hear why
    Thanks

  3. #23
    Damage. Nothing else.
    Parry/dodge gives nothing

    To explain in a maths formula.

    Crit = Damage
    Dodge/parry = Nothing

    Damage > Nothing
    by extension
    Crit > Dodge/parry
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTrueM4gg0t View Post
    May i ask what exactly a prot pala gains from crit?
    Its the stat that scales best due to vengeance afaik, thus giving more dps and selfheal/raidheal, but does it give any sort of mitigation?
    Just dont see why some people advocate crit > parry/dodge, id like to hear why
    Thanks
    As you said, it gives good scaling in DPS with vengeance (although, depending on personal gear levels, haste > crit for throughput a lot of the time). It gives no mitigation.

    Dodge/parry give approximately nothing. They very slightly increase your TDR per point, but TDR has not been a concern of tanks nor healers since, oh, Vanilla. Coupled with the very aggressive diminishing returns on avoidance rating, it is hands down our worst stat, per point (outside of things like spirit, int, etc). D/P basically only contributes to overhealing (by both yourself and the raid healers), a more spiky damage profile, and a small enough increase in TDR that it likely gets lost in the length of fights we see currently.

    So, comparatively, crit is very much like dodge or parry. Neither of them are reliable, they can be treated as "random procs" of "extra damage out" or "less damage in". The thing is, extra damage out is never wasted as long as you have something to hit. If you're already survivng, less damage in is essentially "wasted". This is the same reason that the tank meta gem is utter shit, while the DPS meta gem is a great asset.

    Tanks want reliable. Procs that reduce damage incoming, especially physical damage incoming, are largely worthless/avoided/hated for the fact that they are not reliable. You HAVE to be geared enough already to survive without them (in the case of bad RNG/no procs), so by that logic, you already don't need them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Malthanis View Post
    We'll all be appropriately shocked/amazed when Nairobi actually gets an avatar, but until then, let's try to not derail the thread heckling him about it.
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If it was that easy don't you think we would have figured that out? (Source)
    20k and counting...

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
    unicorns
    Basically what I said only better worded and more nicely put.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  6. #26
    okey thanks nairobi for your thoughts. I was just wondering if I was missing some essential pala-crit-mechanic as e.g. Elusive Brew for Monks.
    while I understand that you prefer reliable dmg reduction over a "procc" dmg reduction, I'd still take if over "only" additional damage. But hey, as mentioned I'm a Monk, where reliant on dodge and parry :-) (not as a stat, but rather as effects)
    In the small scale, a little dodge/parry doesn't seem to matter, but if you had every item Mas/Crit instead of Mas/Parry, you'd be missing out quite a bit of dmg reduction. But thats an extreme case, and I'm not here to tell you how to play your chars, I really only wanted to know why you would go crit > dodge/parry, because in guides I've only read it the other way arround (or not mentioned at all)

  7. #27
    Most guides are kinda basic. That is why they do not mention it.
    I would gladly trade ALL of my dodge/parry to have 0% dodge 0% parry for crit. Without even thinking twice.

    As you said, monks are dependant on dodge/parry, paladins are not. It is really really shit for paladin. It is worth 0.
    Volun-told - A supposedly optional event, award, assignment, or activity in which a person (or persons) are required to attend either by persons-in-charge nominating them or their peers expecting them to be there. The individual often has no say in the matter, and non-attendance in frowned upon.

    I am so tired of seeing terrible people, being admired, for being terrible people.

  8. #28
    Thanks for the help .

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