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  1. #141
    The Patient Kalas's Avatar
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    Technically we already know how to violate our universes's speed limit by bending space rather than moving through it normally. Trouble is it would require us being able to harness the energy of maybe a dozen suns, and it doesn't really count since you aren't just moving in a straight line like any other means of conveyance.
    While we have know the broad strokes of how it can be done (even more Trek tech!) it's not something that's going to be feasible at any point in the forseeable future, and by the time it is I'm sure we'll have better adaptations available anyway. (Such as suspended animation, generational ships, etc.)
    But if you're asking in terms of straight up going faster than light, not 'merely' bending space around your ship, the answer is absolutely no unless and until our understanding of the universe is dramatically altered yet again.

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by mercutiouk View Post
    Oh, indeed. I wasn't meaning to sound flippant with the "turning off". The point is though that it's fairly early days for the theory anyway. Yes it works for the moment but we still aren't able to mate general relativity with quantum physics without the results being equally meaningless so there's something got to give somewhere even as "accepted theories" go at the moment.

    With grey areas and discrepancies already in the mix there's nothing to say our understanding won't change.

    If quantum particles don't have to strictly obey relativity then as the Higgs field is more at that end of the scale it's rather more likely we haven't got it completely nailed down yet.

    Actually, all this said with the above post ringing very true. I'm far from an advanced physics major. I read a lot around the subject and understand what I can but I'm generally accepting someone's layman terms as my understanding of it.
    There's a lot of ideas about "how things are" - the problem is the complexity I mentioned earlier; you change variables in one place, it causes ripples all through physics. And following all these ripples and checking what happened, and whether it created a contradiction somewhere, is an extraordinarily tedious and lengthy process. It can easily take decades, if not more, especially in the most complex of problems. And then there's new data coming in all the time, of course...

    I expect that in a few years time, we'll know a lot more. But even that will only be a small step on the long road.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Biomega View Post
    Nobody KNOWS. Nobody CAN know. Heck, the OP phrased the question using "ever"...

    As for parroting - if you find a flaw in anyone's reasoning, please point it out. Several posters here are quite knowledgeable, but I think that it's only fair to assume none of us are experts in advanced theoretical physics. Still, you don't have to be, as we're dealing with pretty basic fundamentals here. And as for "parroting"... creating original knowledge is a feat reserved for the most creative of humans. All the rest of us can do is analyze, digest, and repeat what we learn from others. That's how society works, in general. It's not something to be ashamed of, unless of course you go about it mindlessly. Which you never should, in any case, not just science.
    Not going to read through 7 pages and point everything out that could be wrong. By parroting, I mean people who heard or read something by somebody else and just trusted them. I mean, for cool things to tell your friends, that can be acceptable, but for any serious discussion, not so much.

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  4. #144
    LOAD"*",8,1 Fuzzzie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zethras View Post
    We recently discovered the Higgs Boson, which gives all particles mass.
    The Higgs Boson doesn't give particles mass. Particles interacting with a Higgs field give the particles mass. A Higgs Boson comes from the excitation of a Higgs field, much like a photon comes from the excitation of an electromagnetic field.

  5. #145
    Dreadlord Maythael's Avatar
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    We will never be able to go faster than C in space, but space itself isn't bound to the speed limit. As others said, "warp" is allowed. So, maybe. We'd just have to figure out a way to do it which is far from our capabilities right now.

    It would be like instead of travelling on a road with a speed limit, you'd be moving/bending the road itself.

  6. #146
    The Patient The Real Greenbean's Avatar
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    One of the theories that would allow us to "breach" the light speed limit is through wormholes. The wormholes are supposedly appearing/disappearing faster than the blink of an eye in the universe already, so... wouldn't that allow for us to disappear into the vastness of nothing or disintegrate or w/e if the Wormhole "shuts down" while we're attempting to go through it? Just a thought

  7. #147
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    It's already been established that "FTL" is possible. I put that in quotes because most "FTL" is not actually speed-wise, faster. Arriving at a destination sooner than light does not not necessarily mean a linear path.

    While the technology is still far beyond our grasp, we've made proof in concept of science that at some point, with sufficient power sources and research, some form of "FTL" is possible.
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  8. #148
    Herald of the Titans Vellerix's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chazus View Post
    It's already been established that "FTL" is possible. I put that in quotes because most "FTL" is not actually speed-wise, faster. Arriving at a destination sooner than light does not not necessarily mean a linear path.

    While the technology is still far beyond our grasp, we've made proof in concept of science that at some point, with sufficient power sources and research, some form of "FTL" is possible.

    Once we achieve that, is there even a point in finding out how to actually go "faster" than light?
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  9. #149
    to op's post.

    it's going to be possible. let's just worry about getting much faster on more efficient systems first. Baby steps. I'm willing to bet that string theory will play into ftl travel.

  10. #150
    Moderator chazus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vellerix View Post
    Once we achieve that, is there even a point in finding out how to actually go "faster" than light?
    Yes and no. For travel purposes, no. For scientific purposes, possibly?

    Also keep in mind... Technology changes. It may be the case that "Near Light" speed is ridiculously more cost effective, albeit much slower, than some form of FTL. Or maybe the technology develops that "FTL" is only useful for extremely long distances. Or set points in space where we cannot easily choose where to go (like a wormhole concept).
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  11. #151
    I don't understand science one bit, so I'm going with "Yes" because I like that answer the best!
    Yep. It'll be very possible.

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  12. #152
    The Patient The Real Greenbean's Avatar
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    Actually they've come even further in the field of quantum ... string-field theory? I don't know, but they've found evidence of entanglement. If one particle interacts with another, they sort of bind together as one. One of those two particles can travel to the other side of the galaxy while the other remains in place. No matter the distance between them, they still interact with eachother in realtime. That's a connection that is faster than the speed of light by atleast a thousand times.
    Something is connecting these two, if we find out how they do it, we could take advantage of it, and study it even further.

    gizmag.com/quantum-entanglement-speed-10000-faster-light/26587/ * There are more sources from which you can read. Livescience for example.

    "Quantum entanglement, one of the odder aspects of quantum theory, links the properties of particles even when they are separated by large distances. When a property of one of a pair of entangled particles is measured, the other "immediately" settles down into a state compatible with that measurement. So how fast is "immediately"? According to research by Prof. Juan Yin and colleagues at the University of Science and Technology of China in Shanghai, the lower limit to the speed associated with entanglement dynamics – or "spooky action at a distance" – is at least 10,000 times faster than light."

  13. #153
    Herald of the Titans JfmC's Avatar
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    Yes we can, when the laws of physics make something impossible, their usually is a way around it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    They didn't tell them to stop carrying them. They just asked them nicely to do so. Don't worry; you're still free to slowly kill yourself and generally smell bad.
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    These smoking threads are always really interesting. I just quit smoking and I already wan't to pick up a pack because I am afraid I will become one of you.

  14. #154
    If I'm not wrong Nasa is actually working on warping. the engines/part remain stationary is the universe around it that move not sure that this is the correct explanation tbh if I found the article I will link it

    http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/te.../ideachev.html

    kind of
    Last edited by Brazorf; 2013-05-18 at 11:10 AM.

  15. #155
    Herald of the Titans JfmC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brazorf View Post
    If I'm not wrong Nasa is actually working on warping. the engines/part remain stationary is the universe around it that move not sure that this is the correct explanation tbh if I found the article I will link it

    http://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/te.../ideachev.html

    kind of
    Like the professor from Futurama explained, the spaceship doesn't move, it moves the universe around it
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    They didn't tell them to stop carrying them. They just asked them nicely to do so. Don't worry; you're still free to slowly kill yourself and generally smell bad.
    Quote Originally Posted by Mementomori1993 View Post
    These smoking threads are always really interesting. I just quit smoking and I already wan't to pick up a pack because I am afraid I will become one of you.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by The Real Greenbean View Post
    Actually they've come even further in the field of quantum ... string-field theory? I don't know, but they've found evidence of entanglement. If one particle interacts with another, they sort of bind together as one. One of those two particles can travel to the other side of the galaxy while the other remains in place. No matter the distance between them, they still interact with eachother in realtime. That's a connection that is faster than the speed of light by atleast a thousand times.
    Something is connecting these two, if we find out how they do it, we could take advantage of it, and study it even further.

    gizmag.com/quantum-entanglement-speed-10000-faster-light/26587/ * There are more sources from which you can read. Livescience for example.

    "Quantum entanglement, one of the odder aspects of quantum theory, links the properties of particles even when they are separated by large distances. When a property of one of a pair of entangled particles is measured, the other "immediately" settles down into a state compatible with that measurement. So how fast is "immediately"? According to research by Prof. Juan Yin and colleagues at the University of Science and Technology of China in Shanghai, the lower limit to the speed associated with entanglement dynamics – or "spooky action at a distance" – is at least 10,000 times faster than light."
    As was pointed out several times in this thread, quantum entanglement and quantum teleportation do not transmit classical information; as such, they cannot be used to transmit data at superluminal speeds. You can't use these effects to build a transmitter (or a teleporter) that works faster than the speed of light. There's several effects that seem to be propagating at faster than the speed of light - you just can't (ab)use these effects for anything. The speed of light remains the upper boundary for the speed of mass and classical information, according to all we know so far.

    Indeed the most promising way is to "cheat" the speed limit by manipulating space/distance. Of course, this in itself is quite a fantastic feat requiring energies on a truly titanic scale. But there could very well be ways around that, too; way to manipulate space and/or gravity with much less energy, and bend them to our will.

    Another possibility would be a naturally occurring phenomenon, such as the discovery of a stable, traversable wormhole somewhere. But science is still unsure whether such a thing can exist at all, and if it can, if it can form naturally on its own. Not to mention that it would not only have to be theoretically traversable, but practically so as well - no point in sending a ship through if all that comes out the other end is a pile of spaghettified goop.

  17. #157
    No, FTL is not possible. It's a basic fact of physics that everyone knows.

    But there are certain loopholes. For example, bending spacetime around the spaceship in a way that propels it forward seemingly faster than the speed of light (while objects in space can't move FTL, space can. E.g. the universe is expanding FTL). Or wormholes.

  18. #158
    Mechagnome
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    On Futuretimeline (If you haven't heard about this website they have estimates for a ton of different stuff, From estimates on when the new console generation will be out to when The black hole era of the universe will start.) Their guess on FTL is that in the 2150 we will have close to light speed available (0.99c) but any higer then that will prove to be very hard to accomplish due the insane power a Alcubierre drive would require but however in the far future when humans are mostly just advanced machines and practicably immortal they predict that we will have the Alcubierre drive perfected and be able to use it in almost any spacecraft, Futuretimelines very rough estimate on this is the year 1,000,000 AD..And that is all counting on that we DO NOT blow our self up or go extinct. Its also based on that no newer much easier FTL method is found.


    http://www.futuretimeline.net/beyond.htm#1000000 If anyone want to read the hole prediction

    You should also check out http://www.futuretimeline.net/ if you haven't seen the site before, its a really great website for science.
    Last edited by Axelond; 2013-05-18 at 11:44 AM.

  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by Axelond View Post
    On Futuretimeline (If you haven't heard about this website they have estimates for a ton of different stuff, From estimates on when the new console generation will be out to when The black hole era of the universe will start.) Their guess on FTL is that in the 2150 we will have close to light speed available (0.99c) but any higer then that will prove to be very hard to accomplish due the insane power a Alcubierre drive would require but however in the far future when humans are mostly just advanced machines and practicably immortal they predict that we will have the Alcubierre drive perfected and be able to use it in almost any spacecraft, Futuretimelines very rough estimate on this is the year 1,000,000 AD..And that is all counting on that we DO NOT blow our self up or go extinct. Its also based on that no newer much easier FTL method is found.


    http://www.futuretimeline.net/beyond.htm#1000000 If anyone want to read the hole prediction

    You should also check out http://www.futuretimeline.net/ if you haven't seen the site before, its a really great website for science.
    "Futurists" have been pretty much overestimating human progress since the beginning of civilization.

  20. #160
    Until Hari Seldon shows us how to do it right, these sorts of "predictions" are nothing more than outright guesses. Given the enormous amount of variables involved, the further into the future you go the more chaotic the system becomes, and consequently the more variance creeps into your results. It's like meteorology - you simply can't make predictions about the weather with any sort of meaningful accuracy past a certain point, because even the smallest changes cause hugely different results the longer they have time to affect the system. That's where the old adage of the butterfly causing a hurricane comes from.
    History has proven time and again that while you can make predictions to SOME degree (especially if the thing you are looking at evolves on a linear scale), that only really works on short time scales. To throw dates around like "2150" or even "1.000.000 AD" (lol? like seriously.. L O L) has no value outside of the comedic. Looking back, say, 100 years, many predictions made then have turned out to be ridiculously wrong. It isn't a big surprise either, as such "predictions" can never take into account leaps in innovation that completely change the game. Quantum mechanics, microcomputers, the internet... these are all changes that happened within the last few decades, but completely changed our way of life, and of doing science and research. And if anything, the rate at which such paradigm shifts occur has been speeding up over the course of history - 2150 is a date so far into the future we have literally no meaningful way of making ANY sort of prediction that will turn out to be true through anything but sheer luck.

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