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  1. #21
    Whoever wants to socialise, will socialise. What has changed is that, contrary to the past, you are not "obliged" to talk to people anymore, since you can queue for everything. But it depends on you if you are gonna find the socialisation that you need. Join a guild that still depends on co-operation (hc raids, rbgs, other fun activities).

  2. #22
    If something in the game changes, but the old way to do it still exists exactly the same, and people decide to do the new thing instead of the old thing, then the conclusion is that they would've preferred not to do the old thing all along.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by underdogba View Post
    If something in the game changes, but the old way to do it still exists exactly the same, and people decide to do the new thing instead of the old thing, then the conclusion is that they would've preferred not to do the old thing all along.
    If you implement something that makes you ding max level and equips full top tier gear by clicking a button, the majority of people would use it because "it is more efficient" (as the terrible argument for LFD/LFR). Does that mean that this change is good?

  4. #24
    I'm very curious about those people, who tells something like "players stopped to say hello in LFD - social aspects of the game are ruined". There are some things, that are very overestimated by some players: number of hardcores in game, number of players, who interested in raiding and...number of players, who needs some social aspects in this game. You know, this is a game and I come here to actually play, not to talk with you about weather and politics. If you're feeling like you are lacking relations - I think you have choosen the wrong way to do it. Social nets, IMs, forums and etc. are the right place to do it. Social aspects are not mandatory for playing. Some players like it, some not. You can't just demand all players to be social.
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  5. #25
    The social aspect didn't go anywhere. It simply isn't forced on people who aren't interested now, and that's a good thing. Be social if you want.

    Quote Originally Posted by underdogba View Post
    If something in the game changes, but the old way to do it still exists exactly the same, and people decide to do the new thing instead of the old thing, then the conclusion is that they would've preferred not to do the old thing all along.
    Exactly. So for the raiders griping about your raid teams breaking up or whatever, you're actually griping that people aren't forced to do things your way instead of a way they prefer. That's quite selfish.
    Last edited by Itisamuh; 2013-05-18 at 05:46 PM.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwsntmilk View Post
    If you implement something that makes you ding max level and equips full top tier gear by clicking a button, the majority of people would use it because "it is more efficient" (as the terrible argument for LFD/LFR). Does that mean that this change is good?
    Nice straw man you got there!

    Even way back in Vanilla, apparently WoW's golden age of kindness and sociable behaviour, people didn't care to socialize much, sure we had more time with getting a group together taking an hour or so if you were unlucky, but there still wasn't much talk besides purely functional things ("Kill skull, CC moon", the occasional "ZOMG you suck!").

    It's just in the nature of lots of people that they don't strike up conversation unless there's some common ground, being in the same guild is good common ground for most people, being in a 5-man together apparently isn't, and no matter how annoying you want to make running 5-mans, that won't change

  7. #27
    I suggest:

    _ More guild levels and achievements. All kind of achievements for small and big guilds.

    _ Guild house that requieres crafted item and drop from all kind of instance to be decorated.

    _ Guild farm for feast and raid food. Like the individual farm but bigger and need collective work.

    _ Guild missions (like in GW2): man hunting, killing a rare, escort something etc. that reward VP so small guilds that can't raid still have something fun to do together.

    _ Would be nice if guilds have more customisation options. What if perks could be choosen by the GM ? So PvP guilds could choose perks that give PvP bonus, social guilds could choose perks that give farming bonus etc. etc. So guild won't end all looking the same.

    ...

  8. #28
    Blizzard already made this mistake in a past - followed to the forum trend. Do you remebmer, what people on forums were asking just before Cata? They wanted game to be harder and wanted to see continue of Azeroth's story. Blizzard done it - it failed. Just before MOP many players on forums were asking to return to BC/Vanilla style of the game. Blizzard done it and now we see, how it failing too. And now the main forum trend is - return social aspect to the game. But, you know - it will serve the same purpose for the game. Just because it's like trying to shoot two hairs at once. Changes like that won't hold players, who tired of this game and want to quit it, but it will spoil the game by forcing some mandatory features on players, who actually liked game as is and make them quit too. Players are asking to return "old days", but they can't realize the truth - they are just tired of this game and nothing will return them this old sweet feeling of exciting. But by asking the devs to make changes to game, they're spoiling this game for players, who actually like it, which leads to even more losses of subs. So, I think, Blizzard just should stick to some majority of playerbase and let all other players go. They should stop trying to hold everybody they can, just because it causes even more losses. I already quited, just because they're tryed to force their BC/Vanilla style on me, assuming grind - is what everybody wants. And even if I would be subbed at the moment, they would force some social aspects on me, I would certainly quit in this case too.
    Last edited by AVPaul; 2013-05-18 at 06:11 PM.
    PurePVE Addon: If Blizzard refuses to solve our problems, we will find solutions by ourselves.
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    I think it's really easy and even attractive to people to daydream about worst case scenarios©Bashiok
    "No flying - no sub" Club "No tiers in LFR - no sub" Club

  9. #29
    I think if you really want a better experience in the social aspect of the game you have to ignore a lot of bullshit until you cant anymore, or accept there are going to be many, many long and hard days of reverse social engineering that will have to be put in before shit gets normal.
    "If you want to control people, if you want to feed them a pack of lies and dominate them, keep them ignorant. For me, literacy means freedom." - LaVar Burton.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by vmagik View Post
    This is a topic quite close to my heart.

    There has been a social decline and that, IMO is for a number of reasons that can't be fixed nowadays:

    1.) levelling was long and difficult in vanilla. This required grouping and forging of friendships/alliances in the game to actually progress.
    2.) You couldn't name change of realm change. This meant all content was limited to forming groups within the existing player base on your realm. Act like an idiot and you wouldn't get far.
    3.) Xrealm/lfd/LFR didn't exist. People who would today choose to the see the content on their own terms by joining LFR might have, in the past pushed themselves further to join a guild and see normal content. The introduction of LFR means that people can see "all" of what wow has to offer without actually talking to or grouping with a single other player in game or on their realm. This takes away potential players from normal mode guilds.
    4.) Because of Xrealm content a reputation simply doesn't matter any more. People can act like idiots in LFR/LFD without any worry of ever seeing those people again. Because this content is also easier than premade group content it also doesn't promote the increase of skills which widens the gap between LFR and normal content.

    There's virtually nothing that can be done now to "fix" the issue of the social realm experience. Convenience has won.
    I agree with this. Certain new mechanics such as lfd, lfr, while providing convenience, unhinge the social aspect of the game.
    They know how to milk the cow.

  11. #31
    Herald of the Titans RicardoZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zeror View Post
    Social aspect never left the game, but the social aspect left the players itself long time ago. Most players are greedy as hell nowadays.
    I think this is really the main point. The adventure was sort of gone from the game once data mining and such started up and you knew exactly what gear you had to have four months before the content even went live. It's like you make a list and just go about your business collecting the gear you need, as if that's ALL the game consisted of, a big neverending quest for gear.

    I think in the past people were more willing to help out because everything was an adventure into the unknown. You hadn't already seen every zone and boss and instance in the game on YouTube months before it was released and there was much more of a drive to just be there and do things than there was to check items off of your must-have-lest-you-be-heckled-in-randoms gear list.

  12. #32
    Humanity hasn't drastically changed over the last 5 years.

    People will be crappy if they are allowed to be. Previously the game punished crappy behavior, it now no longer does. You can be a gigantic asshole and still see and experience everything in the game.

    The incentive to be nice is gone, thus people are not nice.
    Last edited by Zaqwert; 2013-05-18 at 08:04 PM.

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwsntmilk View Post
    If you implement something that makes you ding max level and equips full top tier gear by clicking a button, the majority of people would use it because "it is more efficient" (as the terrible argument for LFD/LFR). Does that mean that this change is good?
    LFR is for people who don't have the time to raid. Nobody who is semi decent at this game cares about it. Why.. because they are either high rated or doing hard modes. The people that want both removed can just not use them. It's that simple I don't miss spamming in trade for 30-60 minutes.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-18 at 09:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Zaqwert View Post
    Humanity hasn't drastically changed over the last 5 years.

    People will be crappy if they are allowed to be. Previously the game punished crappy behavior, it now no longer does. You can be a gigantic asshole and still see and experience everything in the game.

    The incentive to be nice is gone, thus people are not nice.
    If you are not a douche you can find arena teams and raid groups for hard modes easier as well as challenge modes. Being nice still matters and people will flock to you if you are both a good and nice player.
    People here who even consider LFR as seeing the content are silly you haven't fought the boss at his maximum difficult it doesn't matter.
    Last edited by worsthitmanNa; 2013-05-18 at 09:39 PM.
    You're right except for 2 things.

    1. My name is spelt "God" not "Loucious-sama".
    2. I'm not a man, because man is inherently flawed. I am in fact a being so far beyond your comprehension that archaic constraints like flesh, blood, time and consequently, gender, have no meaning to me.

  14. #34
    Elemental Lord Baar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by coulterbart View Post
    Coming from an almost vanilla player (since TBC) I think the most active I have seen guilds was when they were working on guild achievements, guild rep, and guild level, etc.

    I think it is time we up the guild level cap and add a few 'useful' benefits as level rewards. This not only highly promotes social gameplay but it also puts some loyality and ownership of the guild to each member. I remember many of nights just fishing in groups or a indepth supply process to get mats to create high ilvl items or potions, or even just go fishing for the evening. Since we capped, everything has gone back to stale members with no need to run guild groups or even keep ppl from hoppin level 25 guilds (since it is so easy to get guild rep now.)

    At least maybe a 5 level increase for each major update or something would be nice.

    Thanks for letting me bend an ear.

    Why do they need to force you to be social? Why can't you do it on your own?

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by alucardtnuoc View Post
    I liked back in wrath when you actually met tons of people, if you said /2 tank LFG something, some people would instantly whisper you because they knew you were good.

    Sure, LFD stopped people spending hours in dal/sw spamming /2 LFG, but i liked how that helped you find more people who you could have fun with.

    Bring back more incentives to form server based groups for events/raids/dungeons.
    Hmmm I think this is because you were a tank. Try /2 DPS lfg and see how fast you got a group then.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by aSynchro View Post
    I suggest:
    _ More guild levels and achievements. All kind of achievements for small and big guilds.
    agree wholeheartedly. there doesn't even have to be perks or rewards. it would just be nice if guilds could 'level' again. instead of a 'oh, you're only level 23.... did you just make the guild ?'. aside from just 'more' achievements in general, with some at the unreachable numbers point.... it would be nice to have some achieves that could be worked on in RANDOM bg's, and the pet battle system is noticeably absent from guild achieves as well.

    _ Guild house that requieres crafted item and drop from all kind of instance to be decorated.

    _ Guild farm for feast and raid food. Like the individual farm but bigger and need collective work.
    I dunno about this... unless there's some form of gameplay mechanic tied to it... Like Ragnarok Online or Allods Online...

    _ Guild missions (like in GW2): man hunting, killing a rare, escort something etc. that reward VP so small guilds that can't raid still have something fun to do together.
    I saw them first in Rift, and thought thats what the Guild Challenges were going to be. Suffice to say I was disappointed by what WoW actually added.

    _ Would be nice if guilds have more customisation options. What if perks could be choosen by the GM ? So PvP guilds could choose perks that give PvP bonus, social guilds could choose perks that give farming bonus etc. etc. So guild won't end all looking the same.
    All guilds SHOULD end up looking the same if they reach a high enough level... kept beating my head against the wall trying to comprehend how Blizzard can't understand that, and allow a tech-tree anyways. Mind you, since the effectively removed the xp requirements to level guilds at the end of Cata, every guild should be 25 now anyways.

  17. #37
    People are kind of half right about LFR. My schedule makes normal raiding impossible, so with LFR I can see the instances and bosses. But some LFR fights I know aren't at all like the real fight on Normal, let alone Heroic.

    Anyway, my realm was never that social or fun and I started playing in December 2004. If players don't have any reason to be friendly or sociable, they won't.

  18. #38
    Pandaren Monk rederoin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwsntmilk View Post
    The question is: why do players do not give a damn anymore? Because features like LFD/LFR were added. From level 15 on you just click your way to max level and at max level you're just a few clicks away from top tier gear.
    Because having to spend hours looking to find a group to do a pre-level cap dungeon was so much better rigth?

    No it wasn't. I do not think LFD was the cause of the community 'getting worse'. Infact, I think its one of the best additions to WoW since it launched.

  19. #39
    If people need to be "forced" to be social then that's pretty bad. Nowadays since most people do not need to socialize I find it much easier to see who the socialable people are.

  20. #40
    I would love for Blizzard to release a new server type that had LFR and LFD disabled. Blizzard could allow free transfers to it for a time. Then, gamers could tell for sure whether something like that is popular or whether it has any effect on social behavior.

    My current theory is that it won't have any affect at all. Based on the experiences I've had in other MMOs that didn't have either LFR or LFD, people seemed to behave just as badly. Furthermore, without the LFG type tool, most people seemed to group a lot less. Personally, I was very lucky to get more than one dungeon run in a day in these other games.

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