Poll: What would you do with Garrosh

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  1. #201
    Quote Originally Posted by TheRealDavidTwo View Post
    I have an idea. Let's cut off Garrosh's head, and have it displayed in Orgrimmar and Stormwind. Or.. wait a second..
    Just clone him and kill him again, heads for every household.

  2. #202
    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    His victory at theramore was a military coup

    Had pandaria not been discovered he couldve steamrollered ashenvale eventually and taken the whole of kalimdor cause the alliance lost there port to kalimdor and even though northwatch was taken back by the allies it was destroyed and it certainly would not survive another assault while they rebuild

    But talking about military strategy in this game is pointless
    Not really. His plan was foiled by Jaina with the focusing Iris, and the blockade he was depending on to isolate the night elves was broken. The Alliance even retook Northwatch at the end. Neither side seemed to have a clear advantage over the other in 5.0, which is why Garrosh wants pandaria's ancient secrets, to tip the balance and destroy the Alliance.

  3. #203
    Killed quickly, he was an ATROCIOUS character right from the very beginning.

    I beg blizzard to end him as fast as possible.

  4. #204
    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    His victory at theramore was a military coup

    Had pandaria not been discovered he couldve steamrollered ashenvale eventually and taken the whole of kalimdor cause the alliance lost there port to kalimdor and even though northwatch was taken back by the allies it was destroyed and it certainly would not survive another assault while they rebuild

    But talking about military strategy in this game is pointless
    That was his first campaign without significant internal failure and even then it fell apart. It didn't go as he planned, as basically every one of his campaigns has prior to Pandaria.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    That was his first campaign without significant failure.
    Northrend? That place kinda kick-started his popularity amongst the Horde
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  6. #206
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Northrend? That place kinda kick-started his popularity amongst the Horde
    Saurfang had to clean up after him and did most of the real work. Garrosh just took credit.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Saurfang had to clean up after him and did most of the real work. Garrosh just took credit.
    Hellscream was Overlord over the Horde armies. Saurfang was merely an advisor. How was Saurfang supposed to accomplish so much without Garrosh's knowledge?

    Aall of the Horde commended Garrosh for his victories in Northrend. Even Thrall gave his praise during his tour.

    And if Saurfang was so adament that the people should not give praise to Garrosh's ruthless tactics, why did he not take credit for his "supposed" credit
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  8. #208
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    That was his first campaign without significant internal failure and even then it fell apart. It didn't go as he planned, as basically every one of his campaigns has prior to Pandaria.
    Northrend: Saurgang had to clean up messes.

    Wolfheart: He lost in the end.

    Twilight Highlands: Guess they were victorious in the end but he got a lot of his forces decimated by sending away his fighters.

    Tides of War: He did manage to strike a huge blow against the Alliance, but in the end his ultimate plan still fell apart.

    Pandaria: He's managed to get half the Horde rebelling against him, lost the divine bell, got a neutral nation to pledge its support to the Alliance, and hasn't had a decisive victory against Alliance forces as of yet on Pandaria except for perhaps the Domination Point scenario where you fend off an invasion.

    Really, his track record for long term campaigns isn't all that great.

    The Shattering seems to play up his victories in Northrend more than Wrath did, though maybe that's just because only Saurfang knew about his behind the scenes work, or maybe blizz just wanted to make him look more competent. He does show some genuine foresight and tactics here, such as leaving a cache of weapons at a fallback base incase ever driven back to it.

  9. #209
    The Insane Thage's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Combooticus View Post
    His victory at theramore was a military coup
    He was literally one conversation away from having Orgrimmar reduced to rubble at the bottom of the ocean. If Kalec didn't talk Jaina down she would have obliterated Orgrimmar, civilians and all, using the Focusing Iris. As it stands she wiped out a chunk of the Horde's fleet using the water elementals she'd drudged up with the Iris. Furthermore, he caused the chain of events that led to the Horde losing the Kirin Tor as allies, supplying the Alliance with a massive boost to an already-potent magical arsenal, which came back to bite him on the ass in the Isle of Thunder where Taran Zhu managed to get Jaina and Lor'themar to conserve their forces in hopes of using those forces against Garrosh.

    Theramore was a short-term win that ended up biting him on the ass long-term. It galvanized the Alliance, nearly got Orgrimmar wiped off the map, got the Alliance going after the Horde full-force, caused the moderate races to lose what faith they had left in Garrosh, and cost the Horde an allied faction of powerful mages.

    Had pandaria not been discovered he couldve steamrollered ashenvale eventually and taken the whole of kalimdor cause the alliance lost there port to kalimdor and even though northwatch was taken back by the allies it was destroyed and it certainly would not survive another assault while they rebuild
    Maybe. On the other hand, if we're talking what-ifs, if Kalec didn't succeed at talking Jaina down after she got her hands on the Focusing Iris, Orgrimmar would be in pieces at the ocean floor and the Horde would have been without a centralized military command, which would have let the Alliance break the blockade and take the Horde down while they were scrambling to figure out where the chain of command picks back up.
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  10. #210
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    Anything but redemption in my view, if he is imprisoned or exiled he could concievably become an Oedipus like figure, but 'redemption' too often means restored in the good graces of people, whereas I think Garrosh should remain disgraced.

  11. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Hellscream was Overlord over the Horde armies. Saurfang was merely an advisor. How was Saurfang supposed to accomplish so much without Garrosh's knowledge?
    Mind rewording that? I'm not sure what you're saying.

    Aall of the Horde commended Garrosh for his victories in Northrend. Even Thrall gave his praise during his tour.
    Because Garrosh took credit and Thrall not praising the guy would have been political suicide.

    And if Saurfang was so adament that the people should not give praise to Garrosh's ruthless tactics, why did he not take credit for his "supposed" credit
    Because Garrosh was a higher rank and the dude respects the chain of command. It wasn't his place, nor is he the person to try and claim glory. His knowledge that he helped the Horde is enough.

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainiothon View Post
    Anything but redemption in my view, if he is imprisoned or exiled he could concievably become an Oedipus like figure, but 'redemption' too often means restored in the good graces of people, whereas I think Garrosh should remain disgraced.
    Do you mean Ulysses? 'Cause Oedipus was the dude who killed the king and married the queen without realizing the king was his pop and the lady he was banging was dear ol' mom. Hence why Oedipus Complex is used to describe when a male harbors a, erm, unconventional level of affection for his mother (the opposite is Electra Complex, for females and fathers).
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  13. #213
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    Why do I see Garrosh killing himself accidently? If I die, I'll take you all with me scenario, but then it back fires and Garrosh is the only casualty.

  14. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by Zoma View Post
    Tarred and feathered.
    Ah I was trying to link him to Rasputin indirectly lol, guess I failed.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  15. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zethras View Post
    Exile him to Outland, and block up the dark portal with a hundred feet of stone.
    Even better exile him to oshugan crystal temple w/e thing in nagrand.

  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Because Garrosh was a higher rank and the dude respects the chain of command. It wasn't his place, nor is he the person to try and claim glory. His knowledge that he helped the Horde is enough.
    Yet had no qualms about threatning his superior?

    I really dont agree when people say that idea. There was one quest where Saurfang under-handedly helps you kill a Necromancer but thats it. And for something like that you would expect it to be mentioned somewhere eh?
    Yet - "Garrosh has since embraced his potential as a strong leader, most notably in Northrend, where he directed the Horde advance through the Borean Tundra and won the hearts of his people."
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  17. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    Do you mean Ulysses? 'Cause Oedipus was the dude who killed the king and married the queen without realizing the king was his pop and the lady he was banging was dear ol' mom. Hence why Oedipus Complex is used to describe when a male harbors a, erm, unconventional level of affection for his mother (the opposite is Electra Complex, for females and fathers).
    Nah, I was thinking of Sophocles' play, Oedipus at Colonus, in which Oedipus goes into exile after realizing his guilt. He claims he was innocent for his behaviour because he was blind and ignorant, but he remains humbled and muses a lot. I'm sure Garrosh would remain fairly stubborn after the event as well...

  18. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by rainiothon View Post
    Nah, I was thinking of Sophocles' play, Oedipus at Colonus, in which Oedipus goes into exile after realizing his guilt. He claims he was innocent for his behaviour because he was blind and ignorant, but he remains humbled and muses a lot. I'm sure Garrosh would remain fairly stubborn after the event as well...
    Oh yeah. Forgot about that play.

    Well, if Garrosh does survive and gets exiled, odds are either he'll go even further down the slippery slope and show up as a villain in the future, or he'll seriously re-evaluate everything he believed in and show up later as a surprise ally, spending the rest of his life trying to atone for the atrocities he committed as Warchief (and while he might redeem himself in the player character's eyes, odds are publically he'll still be considered a monster like Gul'dan and Blackhand).
    Be seeing you guys on Bloodsail Buccaneers NA!



  19. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Yet had no qualms about threatning his superior?

    I really dont agree when people say that idea. There was one quest where Saurfang under-handedly helps you kill a Necromancer but thats it. And for something like that you would expect it to be mentioned somewhere eh?
    Yet - "Garrosh has since embraced his potential as a strong leader, most notably in Northrend, where he directed the Horde advance through the Borean Tundra and won the hearts of his people."
    Because he was there as a teacher, not just an adviser.

    EDIT: actually looking back, Saurfang is technically Garrosh's superior... just not in that specific offensive.

    Plus, considering the dialogue that they have, Garrosh would have been lost without Saurfang propping him up. He ignores vital information and simply has a bravado about him that does little to benefit his cause.

    Dialogue with Garrosh in Warsong Hold

    Saurfang scolds Garrosh Hellscream's impatience and lust for killing, reminding him of their race's history during a strategy conference in Warsong Hold:

    Varok Saurfang turns around to speak with Garrosh.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: We are surrounded... Our enemies press in from all sides, young Hellscream.
    Saurfang walks to the central and Borean Tundra portions of the hide map of Northrend on the floor, kneeling to point them out, then walks off the map to stand before Garrosh.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: The Scourge descends like locust from the north.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: The Alliance holds the only secure shipping lane in this region, and even that is at risk of being lost to those dreaded mists.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: Our only viable port for resupply is held by the Forsaken on the other side of this blasted continent!
    High Overlord Saurfang says: Anything our zeppelins cannot haul must be brought in by ship and travel the length of Northrend to reach us.
    Saurfang walks back to his usual spot.
    Garrosh Hellscream grunts.
    Garrosh walks up to the map and kneels.
    Garrosh Hellscream says: Shipping lanes... supplies... You bore me to death! We need nothing more than the warrior spirit of the Horde, Saurfang! Now that we are firmly entrenched in this frozen wasteland, nothing shall stop us!
    High Overlord Saurfang says: Siege engines, ammunition, heavy armor... How do you propose to shatter the walls of Icecrown without those?
    Garrosh stands.
    Garrosh Hellscream says: Propose? I will show you what I propose!
    Garrosh crushes the figures and flag indicating Valiance Keep on the map.
    Garrosh Hellscream says: There... Now we now have a shipping lane.
    Garrosh crushes the figures and flags indicating Valgarde and Westguard Keep.
    Garrosh Hellscream says: And just for good measure...
    Garrosh walks back to his usual spot.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: So the prodigal son has spoken!
    High Overlord Saurfang says: Your father's blood runs strong in you, Hellscream. Impatient as always... Impatient and reckless.
    High Overlord Saurfang says: You rush headlong into all-out war without a thought of the consequences.
    Garrosh Hellscream says: Do not speak to me of consequences, old one.

  20. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Callei View Post
    (and while he might redeem himself in the player character's eyes, odds are publically he'll still be considered a monster like Gul'dan and Blackhand).
    Garrosh and Doomhammer are quite similar, yet Ogrim has a city named after him

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 04:40 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Because he was there as a teacher, not just an adviser..
    And yet Garrosh was still the overall leader of the Horde's armies.
    They established fortified hubs throughout Northrend and where pressing ever closer to Icecrown, all under his command
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

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