View Poll Results: What would you do with Garrosh

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  • Exile

    122 13.88%
  • Prison

    104 11.83%
  • Redemption

    99 11.26%
  • Killed

    496 56.43%
  • Other (or combination)

    58 6.60%
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  1. #321
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardstyler01 View Post
    Not stable? If it wasn't for Gul'dan's betrayal Azeroth would be 100% Horde right now. People are quick to dismiss the Old Horde as savages and idiots, but they actually got very close to the total annihilation of the Alliance. Something the new Horde can't begin to imagine.

    When you put it like that, the new Horde is quite incompetent.
    No one knows How would situation go if Guldan would side with Horde and not betray them ! Alliance was strong Force, if they (orcs) had taken Alliance by force they wouldnt handle Night Elves by Force as they were too might by then. They have made Burning Legion to retreat. But personally I think Gul'dan Wouldnt help the battle much ! Alliance had Lot of Force in reserve ! like High Elves and Many Many dwaves . It is known That humans fought Orcs against ORcs in many numbers but High Elves didint. High elves had Lands whcih orcs couldnt destroy .


    War is deception, a game played best from the shadows!

  2. #322
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Well you cant conquer new lands without first removing the previous inhabitants
    The question is whether he's conquering those lands for the land's sake, or he's conquering those lands to destroy the Alliance.

    There's very little evidence to the former in those quotes I posted, while there's a lot more to the latter. There's an emphasis on destroying the Alliance in that passage from the book, not an emphasis of needing the land. The way he talks about it, it's just spoils of conquest, rather than the end goal.

  3. #323
    IMO, send him back to nagrand with promises to end his life should he ever return. let him live with the shame of what he has done in azeroth as well as what his father had done.

    Then expect to see him as a villain some point in the future again.

  4. #324
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    The question is whether he's conquering those lands for the land's sake, or he's conquering those lands to destroy the Alliance.
    Why cant it be both?
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  5. #325
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    He talks of genocide in one of his quotes, far before the offensive on Theramore even begins. He wants nothing left of the night elves but a "bad memory." He's not about "destroying" the alliance. He's about destroying the alliance.

    His speech to the other Horde leaders doesn't focus on the need for resources, nor land. All of those quotes have one thing in common: defeating the Alliance. Again, Horde domination through the destruction of the Alliance is his primary goal.

    I'd like you to point to where in those quotes it says that he is PRIMARILY focused on gaining more land as a resource rather than gaining more land as spoils of conquest.
    I say "destroy" because destruction is just a generic word. His first focus is destroying their will and their spirit; if the Alliance would remains all quite in the Eastern Kingdoms with the night elves escaped there, he wouldn't give a thought anymore to the Alliance, because would be the prove of their submission. But now that Pandaria has been discovered, that continent is the new goal:

    "Just look at this place, Malkorok. THIS is the prosperity that our people deserve!"

    "If our enemies should choose to push us, we will drive them into the ground!"

    "Doubt is for the weak! Do not question your strength, Ishi. We will survive because we must! The Horde will prevail!"

    "Our suffering is at an end. When this war is won, our people will see prosperity at last."

  6. #326
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    Dont forget the little rant to Vol'jin
    "I wont let my people starve to death in the desert, I will stop at nothing! Nothing! To ensure a proud and glorious future for the Orcs and anyone who has the courge to stand with us"
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  7. #327
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Why cant it be both?
    Because we're talking the primary reason. There's obviously secondary ones and as far as destroying the Alliance being the primary reason getting land would be a solid secondary reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    I say "destroy" because destruction is just a generic word. His first focus is destroying their will and their spirit; if the Alliance would remains all quite in the Eastern Kingdoms with the night elves escaped there, he wouldn't give a thought anymore to the Alliance, because would be the prove of their submission. But now that Pandaria has been discovered, that continent is the new goal:
    You're painting him as someone who wouldn't attack the Alliance unless they provoked him. He's not that sort of character. In Wrath he wanted to destroy the Alliance despite them both working to the same end. His soldiers instigated the series of events which caused an entire valley in Icecrown to be filled with dead and dying soldiers.

    He wouldn't care if the Alliance did nothing in the Eastern Kingdoms and if the night elves had a mass exodus. He'd try to burn them to the ground all the same.

  8. #328
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Because we're talking the primary reason. There's obviously secondary ones and as far as destroying the Alliance being the primary reason getting land would be a solid secondary reason.
    But both those reasons kinda go hand in hand

    To get new lands you need to destroy the Alliance
    Destroying the Alliance will gain you new lands

    It works either way
    We have faced trials and danger, threats to our world and our way of life. And yet, we persevere. We are the Horde. We will not let anything break our spirits!"

  9. #329
    Pit Lord Zulkhan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    No he didnt. He civilized them ! Orcs were savages! Who believed in Power and smashing only like Garrosh !! But Thrall showed them another way among Trolls and Tauren ! Thrall is a great Leader any do not appreciate !
    Sorry man but you have some pretty BIG holes in knowledge of orcish history.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-19 at 09:57 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Because we're talking the primary reason. There's obviously secondary ones and as far as destroying the Alliance being the primary reason getting land would be a solid secondary reason.



    You're painting him as someone who wouldn't attack the Alliance unless they provoked him. He's not that sort of character. In Wrath he wanted to destroy the Alliance despite them both working to the same end. His soldiers instigated the series of events which caused an entire valley in Icecrown to be filled with dead and dying soldiers.

    He wouldn't care if the Alliance did nothing in the Eastern Kingdoms and if the night elves had a mass exodus. He'd try to burn them to the ground all the same.
    In Wrath he didn't have not even one of the responsibilities he have now, being a Warchief is all another thing compared to be the Overlord of a military force. Plus, is pretty clear that Garrosh is changed by his experiences in Northrend. Still a proudful and ruthless leader, but more focused, since he have all the Horde in his shoulders, in Wotlk he was just some kind of young, inexperienced military leader with the burning desire of being a leader and crush some heads; plus, he had Saurfang to back up him. The Garrosh we have nowdays is not the excatly same to the one we saw in Northrend, not a different person hey, but not the carbon-copy even.

    No, i'm not painting him as the one that doesn't attack if not "provoked": simply he will use all the possible cruel and ruthless methods for break the very spirit of the Alliance, but the Alliance endure his brutal attacks and tactics, and don't give up.

    "I will let you live so that you can tell your King of the price for his continued defiance!"

    This is the problem. The defiance. And Garrosh will escalate the war any time the Alliance will endure an attack and persevere.
    Last edited by Zulkhan; 2013-05-19 at 10:04 PM.

  10. #330
    Warchief Velshin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    Yet had no qualms about threatning his superior?

    I really dont agree when people say that idea. There was one quest where Saurfang under-handedly helps you kill a Necromancer but thats it. And for something like that you would expect it to be mentioned somewhere eh?
    Yet - "Garrosh has since embraced his potential as a strong leader, most notably in Northrend, where he directed the Horde advance through the Borean Tundra and won the hearts of his people."

    You forgot ICC raid gunship which was lead by Varok Saurfang as well.

  11. #331
    Dreadlord Spichora's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    Sorry man but you have some pretty BIG holes in knowledge of orcish history[COLOR="red"]
    Yeah as you wish! )))))))))) Thrall did what no one else did in Horde ! They where savages Before, no matter what if they were corrupted or not they were Savages ! They only thought about Power and destruction ! Dont say no please !

    Thrall has united all the orcs !! He was raised by Human he has human characteristics in his blood, and humans are considered to be more "civilized" then orcs ! He has taught Orcs all he knew ! He had shown them how to live Free without Corruption ! without all the savagery ! Thrall managed to raise Orcs Pride to decent level but keep it to Defend their new homeland not to conquer new ones! Garrosh cant see that!

    IDK how you managed to conclude your opinion about my knowledge of orcs! They were Savages thats why they failed!


    War is deception, a game played best from the shadows!

  12. #332
    Quote Originally Posted by Dreknar20 View Post
    But both those reasons kinda go hand in hand

    To get new lands you need to destroy the Alliance
    Destroying the Alliance will gain you new lands

    It works either way
    I don't believe you understand what I'm saying. I am not saying that these two things are mutually exclusive.

    I'm talking about one being a primary goal and the other being a consequence or requirement of such.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zulkhan View Post
    In Wrath he didn't have not even one of the responsibilities he have now, being a Warchief is all another thing compared to be the Overlord of a military force. Plus, is pretty clear that Garrosh is changed by his experiences in Northrend. Still a proudful and ruthless leader, but more focused, since he have all the Horde in his shoulders, in Wotlk he was just some kind of young, inexperienced military leader with the burning desire of being a leader and crush some heads; plus, he had Saurfang to back up him. The Garrosh we have nowdays is not the excatly same to the one we saw in Northrend, not a different person hey, but not the carbon-copy even.
    And yet his personality and his hate for the Alliance have hardly changed.

    No, i'm not painting him as the one that doesn't attack if not "provoked": simply he will use all the possible cruel and ruthless methods for break the very spirit of the Alliance, but the Alliance endure his brutal attacks and tactics, and don't give up.
    "if the Alliance would remains all quite in the Eastern Kingdoms with the night elves escaped there, he wouldn't give a thought anymore to the Alliance."

    That's where we disagree. Kalimdor is just the beginning for him. He doesn't just want the Alliance out of Kalimdor. He wants them gone, period. He wouldn't be content with just Kalimdor.

  13. #333
    Pandaren Monk gypsybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    And yet his personality and his hate for the Alliance have hardly changed.



    "if the Alliance would remains all quite in the Eastern Kingdoms with the night elves escaped there, he wouldn't give a thought anymore to the Alliance."

    That's where we disagree. Kalimdor is just the beginning for him. He doesn't just want the Alliance out of Kalimdor. He wants them gone, period. He wouldn't be content with just Kalimdor.
    No wonder. Garrosh sees the Alliance as a threat to the Horde's existence and, quite frankly, he's correct.

  14. #334
    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    No wonder. Garrosh sees the Alliance as a threat to the Horde's existence and, quite frankly, he's correct.
    He sees it as a threat but more importantly an ant to be crushed under the Horde's boot. He sees the Alliance as a group who has challenge the Horde's supremacy and therefore must be destroyed. That is how Garrosh truly views the Alliance.

  15. #335
    Pandaren Monk gypsybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    He sees it as a threat but more importantly an ant to be crushed under the Horde's boot. He sees the Alliance as a group who has challenge the Horde's supremacy and therefore must be destroyed. That is how Garrosh truly views the Alliance.
    Well it's hardly unnatural to want to destroy those who want to destroy his people, is it?

  16. #336
    Quote Originally Posted by gypsybob View Post
    Well it's hardly unnatural to want to destroy those who want to destroy his people, is it?
    Certainly not but I think it's evolved to become more than that. It's not just about them wanting to destroy his people... it's about them existing.

  17. #337
    Considering Blizzard went down the route of "oh he's corrupted, just kill him" with Garrosh, instead of just having him be an extremist who is an aggressor in the name of the Horde, he's probably gonna get killed. Cause he's evil. Fine. Kill. loot him. nice.

    Honestly, though, of all the Horde leaders he was the only one with a clear goal. Get resources for Horde, no matter what. He was essentially what the REAL Horde was about that was displayed in Warcraft 1 and 2. Genuine brutality, waging war for the glory of the Horde.

    What is actually the goal of Thrall's Horde? What does the "player Horde" actually want? "Defend themselves" from the Alliance by allying with murderous Undeads who are now essentially the New Scourge? They want peace? Yeah right. The fact is that Thrall's "good" Horde has no agenda whatsoever: "We're kinda for peace, but let's remember we're Horde so lets go kill some Alliance guys. But we want peace, right. So let's go help the Forsaken pursue "their right to exist" by spraying plague on human refugees."

    Yup, Thrall's Horde is sure righteous and not hypocritical at all. Garrosh speaks with disdain of the Forsaken, and had his good sides in Cataclysm, insisting while to fight with honor, they have to fight for the Orcs' prosperity. You KNOW what the Horde's agenda is with Garrosh, while without him they have none. It's just a shame that the Horde playerbase who wants him dead has no clue about anything.

  18. #338
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaraj View Post
    Considering Blizzard went down the route of "oh he's corrupted, just kill him" with Garrosh, instead of just having him be an extremist who is an aggressor in the name of the Horde, he's probably gonna get killed. Cause he's evil. Fine. Kill. loot him. nice.
    Since when Blizzard went with the corrupted route? It's the complete opposite, Blizzard said that he is not corrupted.

  19. #339
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaraj View Post
    Considering Blizzard went down the route of "oh he's corrupted, just kill him" with Garrosh, instead of just having him be an extremist who is an aggressor in the name of the Horde, he's probably gonna get killed. Cause he's evil. Fine. Kill. loot him. nice.

    Honestly, though, of all the Horde leaders he was the only one with a clear goal. Get resources for Horde, no matter what. He was essentially what the REAL Horde was about that was displayed in Warcraft 1 and 2. Genuine brutality, waging war for the glory of the Horde.

    What is actually the goal of Thrall's Horde? What does the "player Horde" actually want? "Defend themselves" from the Alliance by allying with murderous Undeads who are now essentially the New Scourge? They want peace? Yeah right. The fact is that Thrall's "good" Horde has no agenda whatsoever: "We're kinda for peace, but let's remember we're Horde so lets go kill some Alliance guys. But we want peace, right. So let's go help the Forsaken pursue "their right to exist" by spraying plague on human refugees."

    Yup, Thrall's Horde is sure righteous and not hypocritical at all. Garrosh speaks with disdain of the Forsaken, and had his good sides in Cataclysm, insisting while to fight with honor, they have to fight for the Orcs' prosperity. You KNOW what the Horde's agenda is with Garrosh, while without him they have none. It's just a shame that the Horde playerbase who wants him dead has no clue about anything.
    Where is your source for the corrupted part? Blizzard did state that Garrosh is not corrupted, he is using everything as a weapon against the Alliance.

  20. #340
    Quote Originally Posted by Spichora View Post
    No one knows How would situation go if Guldan would side with Horde and not betray them ! Alliance was strong Force, if they (orcs) had taken Alliance by force they wouldnt handle Night Elves by Force as they were too might by then. They have made Burning Legion to retreat. But personally I think Gul'dan Wouldnt help the battle much ! Alliance had Lot of Force in reserve ! like High Elves and Many Many dwaves . It is known That humans fought Orcs against ORcs in many numbers but High Elves didint. High elves had Lands whcih orcs couldnt destroy .
    You never paid attention to the story of Warcraft 2 then. Because the Alliance didn't have any reserves left, they were truly at the end of their ropes and at the mercy of the Horde. Lordaeron was all that was left and the Horde was on their doorstep. Silvermoon wasn't razed but couldn't exactly help either since they were busy coping with the losses. It was only a matter of time before the Alliance would be wiped out. But then Gul'dan took a portion of the army and betrayed the Horde, giving the Alliance their opportunity to fight back and they did.

    But do you honestly believe the Night Elves would stand a chance against the entire Eastern Kingdoms being Horde territory? Given how easily Cenarius went down, I don't think the Night Elves would stand a chance against an even bigger army of Orcs, Trolls and Ogres.

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