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  1. #1

    Burst of Speed + DPS Loss

    Is it bad that I love burst of speed?

    I know it costs alot of energy but sometimes I feel like it saves either my life or my time in getting to a different target.

    I would like to hear the opinions of everyone, I know it's not the optimal talent to select, but is there a case for it being the optimal talent in certain situations? Or can all situations be avoided with simple strategy and this is a complete waste of a talent?

    I look forward to your opinions and digressions about whether or not 'Burst of Speed' is a worthwhile talent at any point in time, or if it is just always a 'lazy man's load.' (i.e trying to carry 20 things and dropping 10 on the way so it takes longer than two trips)

  2. #2
    I pick Burst of Speed because I don't really trust Shadowstep to not put me into bad ground effects.

    I found that using Vanish with Shadow Focus basically makes BoS "free" and that's really useful when you need to run for 10+ seconds (clearing ice with Cinders on Magaera for example).

  3. #3
    What surprised me about burst of speed is how willing I am to trade a bit of top end in exchange for easier execution. The majority of bosses are "shadowstep bosses", but in practice I've been running BoS for like, all bosses. Shadowstep is cool and fun and a small dps gain, but I am really liking BoS for stuff like "trivializing HJIN balls" and "getting around Lei Shen's platform" and "almost any mechanic on Iron Qon".

    It's unusual because I normally take on a more difficult role in order to get more top end, but in this case it is the opposite. Verain just feels more controllable with it.

  4. #4
    Each to their own, there is no doubt that it's a DPS loss to use though. You have Sprint + Preparation as a baseline not to mention you can Shadowstep friendlies which nullifies the "bad ground effects" from enemy Shadowsteps. Getting to the target instantly = faster damage going out = DPS increase.

  5. #5
    I have to admit the same as Verain, while I *know* I *should* use ShS, I run nearly all the time with BoS (in PvE) - the exception being Ji-Kun just because I want the back-up when I jump down to a platform to kill adds and also during the push away phase. It is definitely more convenient but the other factor is, it doesn't have a CD (except you have to have energy ofc). It just means if I have to make multiple quick switches quickly, one after another, I can still get there fast. TBH if BoS helps me avoid damage or perform a task or help a fellow raider out (which it certainly does) then I think it is worth the trade off but then I am not a top tier raiding rogue, my progress isn't bad (5/13Hc - hopefully 6 tonight ) but that marginal DPS difference isn't going to cost my guild a kill. Being able to get to the place we need someone at very quick has definitely earnt the talent a spot in my heart (think Horridon and helping DPS bear/shamans tanked away from the gate, in between controlling/DPSing Flame Casters at the gate and being general Dino Orb guy). In fact when I think about my feint (over)use on some (all?) fights, my feinting is a much bigger loss than my BoS use lol. (Wonder if other rogues use feint with the same frequency...., I may have a feint addiction :O)

  6. #6
    BoS is just plain and simple a dps loss on a majority of fights, and on fights I can find a reason to use it on, a well planned Shadowstep would have sufficed. BoS is useful doing dailies in between pulls or for farming.
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  7. #7
    High Overlord titcch's Avatar
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    If you learn fights properly then there is no reason to use anything other than ShS, but personally I use Cloak & Dagger (minus ra-den in which I use ShS) because I got addicted to being able to open up from ranged and pulling those pre-pots off with <1 second to go!
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  8. #8
    Shadow Step > Burst of Speed

    No disrespect to anyone, but if I ever see a Rogue using BoS for PVE I instantly categorize them as inexperienced. Generally I am correct as well. Sprint is on a short enough CD to be helpful for even the most moving centric boss specials and with ShS usable on even friendly targets, there is no reason you should need to use BoS. I would recommend forcing yourself to use ShS so you get good with it. I even have it globally bound on Clique so I can mouse over step to friendlies.

    Zipping around the encounter and mastering movement is not only a DPS increase, but when you catch a flow, can be fun as hell.

    BoS, especially in the way you seem to be using it (frequently)-- is a MAJOR DPS loss
    Last edited by Crookids; 2013-05-13 at 04:14 PM.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Crookids View Post
    Shadow Step > Burst of Speed
    Well, disagreed

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral1 View Post
    Well, disagreed
    Lets compare logs.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Crookids View Post
    BoS, especially in the way you seem to be using it (frequently)-- is a MAJOR DPS loss
    I didn't get the impression that anyone was using it frequently. I also disagree that rogues using it are "inexperienced", though I definitely agree it is the more "easy mode" option, and as such won't normally give you the same results as shadowstep. I do think there are fights where burst is better. Certainly, the ability to erase the attack speed / snare debuff on Iron Qon is probably worth the slightly longer amount of time you spend in a windstorm. It's probably also better on Primordius and Maegara, and it's honestly likely a wash on several other fights. I agree that shadowstep is a gain on most fights, but... I seriously doubt it's a very large one that often.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Crookids View Post
    No disrespect to anyone, but if I ever see a Rogue using BoS for PVE I instantly categorize them as inexperienced.
    lol@ "I dont mean to insult you, but you suck".

    I actually love Burst of Speed, I think when your guild isn't running some things like Horridon as "smoothly" as it should be, it's fantastic for instant manoeuvrability to keep youself alive and get your self to adds quickly when they're spaced out. (it's also awesome for stalkng mounted targets, while stealthed, in world PVP without them even knowing you're anywhere nearby)

    BUT in most encounters adds come at specific points timed apart anyway and when you learn exactly where to Step and when then I think ShS definately pulls ahead. I also can't imagine it being very good for PVP against ShS either.

    I know BoS has an energy cost and all that, but since the last patch it's low enough that you've normally got most of it back by the time you get to your target. I'd actually be suprised if there was really much in it at all on most encounters (not that you even need to use either on that many encounters).

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    I didn't get the impression that anyone was using it frequently. I also disagree that rogues using it are "inexperienced", though I definitely agree it is the more "easy mode" option, and as such won't normally give you the same results as shadowstep. I do think there are fights where burst is better. Certainly, the ability to erase the attack speed / snare debuff on Iron Qon is probably worth the slightly longer amount of time you spend in a windstorm. It's probably also better on Primordius and Maegara, and it's honestly likely a wash on several other fights. I agree that shadowstep is a gain on most fights, but... I seriously doubt it's a very large one that often.
    I haven't used BoS in PvE... ever. It's really not better on any fight. It might be more fun, but it is a DPS loss.

    From the ones you mentioned:
    • Iron Qon: Why are you getting that debuff? It's avoidble and you can ShS to the other side of the line if necessary. If you happen to randomly get it, CoS, human racial, gnome racial, Freedom, Master's Call, Tiger's Lust, Windwalk, and probably some others I'm missing all clear it.
    • Primordius: Not sure why BoS would be better. Getting between blobs? If your raid has any organization for mutation order, the blobs you're getting your buffs from will all be in a line. Later in the fight when red pools are everywhere, you can Sprint out, Feint (so you don't take a billion damage), pick up 5 pools, and ShS back to the boss. Full buff in a few globals and you probably don't even have to Feint on normal.
    • Megaera: Seriously no idea why BoS would be good. Clearing ice with cinders? Our melee just don't clear ice. Most of the time our ranged don't clear ice either. If you place it correctly, you do not have to clear ice ever. Even if you do have to clear ice, it should be less than once a minute so you can Sprint out, clear some stuff, get dispelled, then ShS a melee DPS.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer Tehterokkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    I haven't used BoS in PvE... ever. It's really not better on any fight. It might be more fun, but it is a DPS loss.

    From the ones you mentioned:
    • Iron Qon: Why are you getting that debuff? It's avoidble and you can ShS to the other side of the line if necessary. If you happen to randomly get it, CoS, human racial, gnome racial, Freedom, Master's Call, Tiger's Lust, Windwalk, and probably some others I'm missing all clear it.
    • Primordius: Not sure why BoS would be better. Getting between blobs? If your raid has any organization for mutation order, the blobs you're getting your buffs from will all be in a line. Later in the fight when red pools are everywhere, you can Sprint out, Feint (so you don't take a billion damage), pick up 5 pools, and ShS back to the boss. Full buff in a few globals and you probably don't even have to Feint on normal.
    • Megaera: Seriously no idea why BoS would be good. Clearing ice with cinders? Our melee just don't clear ice. Most of the time our ranged don't clear ice either. If you place it correctly, you do not have to clear ice ever. Even if you do have to clear ice, it should be less than once a minute so you can Sprint out, clear some stuff, get dispelled, then ShS a melee DPS.
    Iron Qon you would benefit more from BoS during 2nd Dog Lightning Storm, you can't reach boss as melee(and even if you could, he takes 75% reduced damage or something like that). The faster you get out of there, the easier it will be on your healers/yourself.

  15. #15
    There's no need to post platitudes with no explanation or get defensive in this thread. Come on, guys.

    On topic: I can't see any fight in ToT I've done so far where I'd rather have BoS than Shadowstep, but given the infrequence of needing to use movement CDs at all I don't think it would be a huge loss, just an unnecessary one. Haven't seen H IQ yet, and I still remain more solidly good at theory than practice, so it's still just an opinion =)

    I do think Shadowstep remains solidly better for all situations I can think of (even normal IQ - for the storm, take 3 steps forward and shadowstep someone who used a warlock portal), but I doubt the gap is wide enough to make a big fuss over where BoS has some special applications or could save your life.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Tehterokkar View Post
    Iron Qon you would benefit more from BoS during 2nd Dog Lightning Storm, you can't reach boss as melee(and even if you could, he takes 75% reduced damage or something like that). The faster you get out of there, the easier it will be on your healers/yourself.
    ShS someone who got out before you, as Mugajak said. If you're an engineer, you can also ShS the boss and Glider out on the first, then Sprint out on the second. You could probably even just stand in the middle with Feint+Elusiveness and no heals and still live no problem.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    ShS someone who got out before you, as Mugajak said. If you're an engineer, you can also ShS the boss and Glider out on the first, then Sprint out on the second. You could probably even just stand in the middle with Feint+Elusiveness and no heals and still live no problem.
    By far the best use for ShS in throne of thunder. I absolutely love this. Too bad shadowstepping cinders with cloak of shadows into the water doesn't seem to work anymore, the fire seems to jump back with my character.

    Back to subject: If one likes BoS more, go ahead and use it. I personally prefer shadowstep gameplay wise and luckily it's a bit better DPS wise aswell. It just seems a bit more suitable for a rogue but this might be because I could be just so used to seeing shadowstep ever since TBC.

    As far as Iron Qon goes, shadowstep should be superior to BoS even without having engineering as already mentioned. Stepping at another player who has either leaped/blinked/used warlock portal etc etc or even to step towards someone else who has an speed boost to get benefit from the short movement speed boost anyway (which would be pretty much the same as using BoS). However, crossing lines of fire etc with shadowstep is a lot more benefical than using simply an movement speed buff such as BoS or Sprint. Maybe even jumping to someone who has positioned themself in a such way that there's no-one to click the cloud off from them.

    Versatility is propably what makes shadowstep such an strong talent along with the fun factor (which again is about individuals personal preference, of course).

    I did try burst of speed out back in heroic will of the emperor because I were soaking the sparks alone, but quickly went back for shadowstep because burst of speed wasn't necessary where as I could cheese out just slightly more damage to targets with shadowstep (especially courages).

    And the short version: If you really prefer BoS and don't need to (or want to?) "min-max" your DPS, go ahead and use BoS! Games are about having fun and thus it obviously is an option for some. I'm lucky to prefer shadowstep over burst of speed anyway, so I don't need to think about it at all.
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  18. #18
    Free Food!?!?! Tziva's Avatar
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    I don't think I'd use it in raid fights - If I'm moving a lot, then it's a DPS loss. If I'm moving only a little, I have sprint.

    That said, I do really like the talent as far as its "fun factor." I use it while questing (if I remember to change it). I have also used it in a couple challenge modes, although I suspect it is technically a bad choice there, too, we did win a couple boss fights where the tank died and we were able to win with me just spamming burst of speed endlessly while another DPS killed him while he was chasing me.

    So, objectively probably the worst talent choice from that tier, but still it is pretty fun and can be circumstantially useful.
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  19. #19
    For PvE, there just isn't anything that BOS can do that Shadowstep can't do better. Shadowstep has zero dps cost, is instant, can cheese knockbacks etc, and can be targeted to friendly players when need be. There just is no viable reason to ever choose BOS in a PvE setting.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Squirl View Post
    I haven't used BoS in PvE... ever. It's really not better on any fight. It might be more fun, but it is a DPS loss.
    [/list]
    Only 2 occassions I actually used it in PvE are: Blade Lord heroic and the weekly Lei Shens Key/plunder run thingie.


    Quote Originally Posted by Chult View Post
    There just is no viable reason to ever choose BOS in a PvE setting.
    This tier. In T14 you had/should have used it for Blade Lord.

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