Is this what winning looks like?

[Cybran]

I watched this documentary last night and I really wanted to share it.

The withdraw deadline for the troops in Afghanistan is December 2014. The intelligence reports and expert accounts show that the Taliban are as strong as ever and just waiting for their moment to seize the country. The ISAF are obviously not prepared to defend their country. Corruption, Drug abuse, Harassment, Rape, Child molestation and Kidnappings are common practice for the Afghan police forces. The politicians in Europe and USA know this full well, but are choosing to ignore the red flags and instead pose for photo ops and spew lies.

Is there more that can be done or is that country doomed to slip back in to chaos?

[Deleted]

Public opinion wants them out, nothing that can be done about it, I feel bad for Afganian men, women and children and I hope the taliban warlords kill each other for slightly different opinions about how to behead rape victims

[Notchris]

I don't know what else can be done. People, here and over there, want us out.
Everyone knows it's going to revert to before we invaded, it's beyond obvious. But what do we do? Stay anyway and let everyone throw a fit about "not respecting their wishes"?

IASF isn't ready and us leaving is throwing them to the wolves, but our hands are tied.

I have a feeling though, when we leave we'll get a bunch of the same sanctimonious fuckwad's that have been chiding us for our "oppressive imperialism" and what not telling us we need to leave, saying that we abandoned the Afghan people and didn't do enough to help.

The whole thing is depressing.

[Deleted]

Seen it, made my blood boil, if I watch it for a second time I may have a stroke due to the anger.

[darkwarrior42]

As soon as a withdrawl deadline is set, there's nothing we can do.

Think about it: if you were over there trying to take control, and you knew that the US was over there fighting you but was going to leave no later than X date, would you:
A) Fight against the US? or
B) Wait for them to leave and then strike?

I understand the point of the deadline, but it ultimately undermines just about everything else.

Edit: I also know that more than the US is involved, substitute any country/organization/alliance/whatever and the result is the same.

[zorkuus]

I don't know what else can be done. People, here and over there, want us out.

This, you can't help those who don't want to be helped. And even if they did, they will still have to start sorting out their own problems sooner or later. Foreign troops can't stay there forever.

[Cybran]

This, you can't help those who don't want to be helped. And even if they did, they will still have to start sorting out their own problems sooner or later. Foreign troops can't stay there forever.

The documentary (it's long i know) explains where the biggest mistakes were made. How a base declares scrapped cars as working to collect Petrol money. How solar panels are installed in bases without being hooked to anything since no one there knows how to work with electricity. How tons of the ISAF are illiterate.

The hero in this situation, Major Stueber talks about the whole thing is set up as if the infrastructure that will take 20 years to build is already in place. The main problem according to many people is the War in Iraq which drained the resources meant for Afghanistan.

[Deleted]

The documentary (it's long i know) explains where the biggest mistakes were made. How a base declares scrapped cars as working to collect Petrol money. How solar panels are installed in bases without being hooked to anything since no one there knows how to work with electricity. How tons of the ISAF are illiterate.

The hero in this situation, Major Stueber talks about the whole thing is set up as if the infrastructure that will take 20 years to build is already in place. The main problem according to many people is the War in Iraq which drained the resources meant for Afghanistan.

You are talking shite, the biggest problem is that the country is run by corrupt bastards that will sell their own child as a sex slave to a heroin addicted police chief. For every good person there is 10 more above him that do not want to upset the status quo, until Afghans want to help themselves we can do nothing about it.

[Cybran]

You are talking shite, the biggest problem is that the country is run by corrupt bastards that will sell their own child as a sex slave to a heroin addicted police chief. For every good person there is 10 more above him that do not want to upset the status quo, until Afghans want to help themselves we can do nothing about it.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013...zai-cia-money/

When Iran pays off Karzai, it’s disruptive foreign meddling. But when the CIA does it, it’s supposed to be an insurance policy to entrench U.S. influence in the president’s office. Alas, there’s something more important than influence in geopolitics: leverage. When Washington most needed leverage with Karzai, it didn’t have much — at least not that it was prepared to use — and the CIA ghost money helps explain why.

It doesn't help that the CIA sends bags of money to the status quo.

[Deleted]

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2013...zai-cia-money/


It doesn't help that the CIA sends bags of money to the status quo.

By all means keep telling me what it is like out there, perhaps you can email me updates when I am deployed there for the third time in 2014.

[Spectral]

The main problem according to many people is the War in Iraq which drained the resources meant for Afghanistan.

That may have been true back in '03 and '04 (I'm not really sure), but spending in Afghanistan under Obama has been absolutely sky high. A lack of American money there isn't the problem.

[Noomz]

We know that no victory is being had, that's why we don't want to be part of this crap anymore or throw our peoples lives away in a country we couldn't ever care about.

The changes that need to happen to Afghanistan are changes THEY have to do, not we.

[Itisamuh]

Let them deal with their own problems, and we can deal with ours. As others have said, in order to help others, first they have to want the help.

[Noomz]

Seen it, made my blood boil, if I watch it for a second time I may have a stroke due to the anger.

I know you've actually been deployed there. Isn't it frustrating? Especially with the rules of engagement being used. Talibans could be standing right next to you but you can't do shit until they shoot you.

[Deleted]

I know you've actually been deployed there. Isn't it frustrating? Especially with the rules of engagement being used. Talibans could be standing right next to you but you can't do shit until they shoot you.

Often in the back by the ANA or ANP you are supposed to be supporting.

[Cybran]

By all means keep telling me what it is like out there, perhaps you can email me updates when I am deployed there for the third time in 2014.

So? That's it? Pack the bags and "let them deal with it".

[ringpriest]

Is there more that can be done or is that country doomed to slip back in to chaos?

Not really, given that the U.S. has never been willing to deploy the level of force necessary to truly achieve anything in Afghanistan. Traditionally, a ratio of 20 soldiers per thousand inhabitants has been considered the baseline for a successful occupation. That implies a minimum of 600,000 soldiers would be needed to successfully occupy Afghanistan, with it's population of over 30 million. The United States and its allies have never had more than a small fraction of that number of troops deployed there. Likewise, Afganistan has never received as much non-military assistance as other failed states, such as Bosnia or Hati.

In theory there is more that could be done, but in practice, yes, Afghanistan is doomed to more chaos.

[Deleted]

So? That's it? Pack the bags and "let them deal with it".

Yes, they do not want our help unless it is to profit and steal from us. In the video they ask for fuel, weapons and ammunition to fight the Taliban, what do they do with it? Sell it down the local bazaar. Did you also see where they tore down their own compound to sell as scrap?

[Krolikn]

They have to look after themselves sooner or later. If they can't when the time comes its their problem, not yours.

[Deleted]

They have to look after themselves sooner or later. If they can't when the time comes its their problem, not yours.

I think a classic example of this is shown in the video. 20 of the best police recruits are hand picked to attend the new academy that has just been set up so they can become Officers, the next day 6 are sent back home for failing the drugs test.