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  1. #1

    5.3 4 t15 shadow, SWI+DI and SWD questions

    Hello, I'm just playing my priest for 3 days and have terrible lack of haste, that's why I wish to know something from professionals(I'm ilvl 484 atm).
    1) twintop Tahoe mentioned that in 5.3 having 4t15 will be mandatory for shadow priests, instead of off tier pieces. Why, what's changes?
    2) SW: D can be used single time and will trigger the cd 7sec for the next orb-giving SWD. But, blizzard panels are counting only after 2nd SWD in a row, which leads to 2GCD+7 sec CD, 2 seconds slower in terms of orb generation. Is it a DPS increase for single time SWD and then waiting for a 'shadow cooldown'? If yes, can I get a SWD weakaura to count 7 seconds after single SWD hit?
    3) I just applied my DP and suddenly DI procced. Should I stop MF:I for MB(or sWD) to generate more DP or should I finish my 3-4 SWI flays on DP'ed mob first?
    Thanks!

  2. #2
    currently, apparition dot extension from t15 is wiping all temporary haste buffs. this is being changed in 5.3.

    orb generation is always your main priority. DI procs during DP uptime should be used, and one SWD should be used every time it will generate an orb during DP (there are weakauras that can be used to track this) but double tapping is worthwhile when it isn't delaying insanity/DP.

    you lose 1 gcd of insanity uptime by using blast/death, but you're reducing the period between insanity phases by ~8 seconds for each orb.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Minoan View Post
    Hello, I'm just playing my priest for 3 days and have terrible lack of haste, that's why I wish to know something from professionals(I'm ilvl 484 atm).
    1) twintop Tahoe mentioned that in 5.3 having 4t15 will be mandatory for shadow priests, instead of off tier pieces. Why, what's changes?
    2) SW: D can be used single time and will trigger the cd 7sec for the next orb-giving SWD. But, blizzard panels are counting only after 2nd SWD in a row, which leads to 2GCD+7 sec CD, 2 seconds slower in terms of orb generation. Is it a DPS increase for single time SWD and then waiting for a 'shadow cooldown'? If yes, can I get a SWD weakaura to count 7 seconds after single SWD hit?
    3) I just applied my DP and suddenly DI procced. Should I stop MF:I for MB(or sWD) to generate more DP or should I finish my 3-4 SWI flays on DP'ed mob first?
    Thanks!
    Yes, you can.

  4. #4
    1) The 2pc was so broken that it wasn't worth wearing to get the 4pc. That's being fixed, and the set bonuses are strong
    2) Here's one I made. Works well for me: http://pastebin.com/DtPYC0WP
    3) Yes, interrupt MF:I for orb generation. This includes the first SWD that generates an orb (and only this one - watch the ICD) when your target is below 20%.

  5. #5

  6. #6
    Thank you all! But I also want to clarify about SWI interruption, is it really worth it when you have 13k+ haste and your DI proc refreshes so often that you don't need to interrupt SWI for DI proc(and interrupt it for SW: D only)? Because on the other side, having 13-15k haste leads to very often DI procs and much more SWI ticks, which lead us to ignorance of DI procs to channel more powerful insanity every single DP

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Minoan View Post
    Thank you all! But I also want to clarify about SWI interruption, is it really worth it when you have 13k+ haste and your DI proc refreshes so often that you don't need to interrupt SWI for DI proc(and interrupt it for SW: D only)? Because on the other side, having 13-15k haste leads to very often DI procs and much more SWI ticks, which lead us to ignorance of DI procs to channel more powerful insanity every single DP
    Ignoring DI procs is a DPS loss. With more orbs you have a higher uptime of DP, which will lead to more MS:I.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Cerbz View Post
    Ignoring DI procs is a DPS loss. With more orbs you have a higher uptime of DP, which will lead to more MS:I.
    What he's asking is should you interrupt a cast of MF:I to use an instant DI proc. Personally I don't, but I'd like to be told I'm doing it wrong by someone who can tell me why.

    Having more DP uptime which leads to more MF:I seems pointless if you're only going to be interrupting your MF:I casts. I'd love to know the reasoning or number crunching behind why interrupting/not interrupting a MF:I cast is a dps loss/gain.
    Last edited by Hellcat; 2013-05-21 at 03:44 AM. Reason: addit

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellcat View Post
    What he's asking is should you interrupt a cast of MF:I to use an instant DI proc. Personally I don't, but I'd like to be told I'm doing it wrong by someone who can tell me why.

    Having more DP uptime which leads to more MF:I seems pointless if you're only going to be interrupting your MF:I casts. I'd love to know the reasoning or number crunching behind why interrupting/not interrupting a MF:I cast is a dps loss/gain.
    http://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=3223

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellcat View Post
    What he's asking is should you interrupt a cast of MF:I to use an instant DI proc. Personally I don't, but I'd like to be told I'm doing it wrong by someone who can tell me why.

    Having more DP uptime which leads to more MF:I seems pointless if you're only going to be interrupting your MF:I casts. I'd love to know the reasoning or number crunching behind why interrupting/not interrupting a MF:I cast is a dps loss/gain.
    There's not really any reasoning or number crunching to do. All you have to do is move the lines in Simcraft that case Mind Blast and SWD down 2 lines (so that they're below the 2 lines that channel MF:I) and compare the DPS. You can also try with just moving SWD.

    Personally I drop 2.3k DPS from doing that, so I will continue to interrupt my MF:I channels for shadow orb generators.

  11. #11
    Always interrupt MF:I to generate shadow orbs, but only to generate orbs (or refresh dots with UVLS). As dmfg said, it's easy to see for yourself in simc. It also just makes sense. 1 GCD of an interruption will buy you another 2 seconds of DP (1 orb = 1/3 of DP = 2 seconds). Since MB (DI proc or not) and SWD don't take 2 seconds to cast (my gcd is just over 1s currently), it's a net gain even just looking at MF:I up time. Don't forget that DP'sstrong even without MF:I - it alone is big for your damage. There's a reason why SimC now has MB and the 1st SWD before the orb ICD above MF:I nowadays. It's better to interrupt it.

    The difference between interrupting and not isn't drastic, but it's there, so it's best to do it.

  12. #12
    Good day shadow priests! And thank you very much for your help, implemented almost every advice you gave to live.
    I've been taken for some once-a-week alt runs of normal(10), and with a knowledge, more questions I have. Sadly, I cannot edit the name of the topic, so I will bold my questions for newcomers and won't open new thread. Thank you very much for assistance and sorry about asking things which are unrelated to topic name or I haven't found the answers on H2P.
    SMART USE OF DIVINE STAR AND POWER INFUSION
    1)Divine Star-I've seen lots of references on that spell(in H2P boss talent guides), seen it in some pro spriest armories, but, to be honest, never tried that after terrible feedback on that(and haven't got a chance to play with that in the next couple of days). Where is it good?

    I guess on Lei Shen, since it may have not any distance requirements to pull high damage, but that talent is so bugged, I'm not pretty sure where you would choose it instead of cascade,maybe JuKun eggs.

    2)Power Infusion-The talent that cooldowns(I assume) for the 1-3 pool(if using in pools) and may be extremely good for burst phaces(Ji Kun, Iron Qon's dogs in any difficulty mode). Still, the shadowpriests in my guild(talking about geared people with 14k+ haste) preferring to use DI on JinRokh, ToF on Ji Kun, DI on Tortos. I'm starting to think that this talent is useful for 1-2 good SWI rotations combined with powerful dots for an execute phace and require a good opener with 3 Orbs from pull.

    What is the haste edge, in your opinion, after which that talent becoming useless?18.2k GCD or everything before 15k haste without 5% speed? Where you're using that?

    3)If I missed these threads on H2P, can I have a links for them? Thank you very much for your answers, I really appreciate it.
    My latest alt-priest: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...opunk/advanced
    Last edited by Minoan; 2013-06-05 at 03:36 AM. Reason: Reduced the amount of reading

  13. #13
    divine star does an incredible amount of healing when the raid is mostly stacked, and is also much stronger than halo when you cant be far enough away. for example on fights like jinrokh and megaera rampages you can end up doing a lot of extra healing with divine star. DI generally sees very little use until you're pushing close to 18k haste (basically close to full BIS w/ 2/2 upgrades) and have the meta gem - and that's mostly just because you end up with so much haste that it becomes hard to use PI (especially when stacked w/ troll racial) with lmg proc + lust. DI can also be a slight help for mobility dps, and the extra orbs just gives you a better chance of having 3 up for your perfect aims.

    not using twist of fate on tortos is usually going to be a damage loss due to how often you can get it up on turtles + bats, and it also gives a good boost to your halo healing which can be helpful. i really can't understand why you'd use twist of fate on ji'kun for dps, unless you have a goofy feather assignment. for my usual platform assignment, staying around for an extra 5-6 seconds after our adds die can often result in being able to grab nutriment as i fly back to the platform, which is a bigger dps increase than the 2-3 seconds of twist of fate you'd have once you get back up to the platform. however if getting all the adds down on each platform is an issue, then twist of fate could be a big help killing that last add.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by snaxattax View Post
    not using twist of fate on tortos is usually going to be a damage loss due to how often you can get it up on turtles + bats
    Personally, I like DI on this fight to help with mobility 3 turtles + tortos = a lot of procs and a lot of insanity on the primary shell. I might revisit ToF on Tortos this week in LFR though, its been a while.

  15. #15
    Personally I use both FDCL and DI on tortos as my only concern is killing turtles fast and aside from the ridiculous combustion spreading fire mage I tend towards the top damage on them, also makes the burn phase less painful when you are being knocked up more than you'd want to be.

  16. #16
    Yeah I might try that if I am on Shell Duty next week. There is just too much movement required for insanity

  17. #17
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that our damage comes from MF:I - it doesn't, MF:I is a glorified Mind Flay (which is a terrible filler and our bottom priority). The real damage comes from Devouring Plague and Mind Blasts - which are way more valuable than having your Mind Flay hit harder. Always interrupt MF:I's for orb generators - DP is the goal, not MF:I
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  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Keosen's Avatar
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    How come and SW:I in the most damaging spell in the parses then?
    I was assuming that interrupting MF:I for SWD and IMB was to get even more MF:I.
    Terrible filler means nothing if you buff the shit out of this filler and becomes top priority.
    What you're saying maybe it's correct i'm not arguing but it does not make sense.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Yvaelle View Post
    A lot of people make the mistake of thinking that our damage comes from MF:I - it doesn't, MF:I is a glorified Mind Flay (which is a terrible filler and our bottom priority). The real damage comes from Devouring Plague and Mind Blasts - which are way more valuable than having your Mind Flay hit harder. Always interrupt MF:I's for orb generators - DP is the goal, not MF:I
    Nope. Mfi and DP are our best scaling spells. If mb didn't generate orbs we probably might not even use mb.

    Stream: twitch.tv/DryeLuLZ
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  20. #20
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drye View Post
    Nope. Mfi and DP are our best scaling spells. If mb didn't generate orbs we probably might not even use mb.
    Hmm, I guess if you read that first line as saying that Mind Blasts are equally as valuable as DP, then I could see what you're saying - but I was saying Mind Blasts (as a means to DP) in the first line, which should have been clear from the end when I listed DP as the goal (but not Mind Blasts).
    Youtube ~ Yvaelle ~ Twitter

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