Thread: Feral Dps at 90

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  1. #1

    Talking Feral Dps at 90

    How is feral looking at 90? Seems like it shouldn't be too bad. What level 90 talent maximizes feral dps the most?

    How do we look compared to others?

  2. #2
    You can refer to the SimulationCraft.

  3. #3
    Pandaren Monk Myz's Avatar
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    No, you cannot. Simulationcraft is borderline useless since it's a theoretical exercise that never takes place in practice, both in terms of the type of encounter and the 100% perfect playstyle of every player.

  4. #4
    You will have to wait a while and check Raidbot. He is correct that simulationcraft is a theoretical exercise where all the theory may not be correct.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    SofT with DoC is currently best. SofT slightly beats FoN and there is a quite big gap from those two and Incarnation. More info you could go to the sticky guide on top.

    I can't see ourselves topping dps on all boss fights but i can't see us being in last either and we got a few things that helps the raid our like Symbiosis on a Shadow Priest for an free Raid heal, On a warrior for a free raid dps increase or on any given tanks for them to get more survival ability. And then we can use Symbiosis for self benefit like Redirect on boss/adds Swap or Soul Swap for DoT spreading.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dekadez View Post
    No, you cannot. Simulationcraft is borderline useless since it's a theoretical exercise that never takes place in practice, both in terms of the type of encounter and the 100% perfect playstyle of every player.
    You can still get the hang on what classes that are doing good and what classes that are doing worse but in practice you can't reach those numbers and the class order we see in simcraft is not always the class order we see in the raid.
    Last edited by Etapicx; 2012-09-28 at 10:29 AM.
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  6. #6
    Stood in the Fire Kals's Avatar
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    In heroics it's great. Running with a guild group I push 50k+ with relative ease depending on the fight (Note guild group, so no luck of the draw).

    I've been using HotW as with how fast paced heroics are DoC is relatively unhelpful, as with nature's vigil preferring boss fights only.

    In addition, HotW is very strong at the moment and actually can put out some insane DPS as feral. My highest wrath crit so far (on a non-gimmick fight) is ~320k, and I've seen Hurricane tick-crit for upwards up 60k, which actually helped us to get the achievement in Jade Temple for killing the fish and then killing Sha in 5 minutes. 150k DPS from hurricane on the room 3rd boss is in is maddd fun.


    No one can really give you an accurate representation of our status in raids until next week, and neither Sha of Anger nor Galleon are great bosses to base that off of. Overall we should be quite good off if played well and able to adapt to the new boss fights with ease; though the same can be said of most classes.

    TL;DR: Going great in heroics, hotw is amazing, wait 'til next week to see how we stack up in raids.

  7. #7
    Guys which trinket from those 3 is better for feral? i am dummy at simcrafts, really pleased to hear some advices.
    1) Searing Words 463 http://www.wowhead.com/item=81267
    2) Zen Alchemist Stone 450 http://www.wowhead.com/item=75274
    3) Epic trinket from Coren Direbrew 470 http://www.wowhead.com/item=87574

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasek View Post
    Guys which trinket from those 3 is better for feral? i am dummy at simcrafts, really pleased to hear some advices.
    1) Searing Words 463 http://www.wowhead.com/item=81267
    2) Zen Alchemist Stone 450 http://www.wowhead.com/item=75274
    3) Epic trinket from Coren Direbrew 470 http://www.wowhead.com/item=87574
    Use Searing Words and Zen Alchemist stone together. Coren trinket is pretty meh for feral.

  9. #9
    So far, I am level 89, and on static boss fights, i feel great. I am never 2nd or 3rd on the DPS. On fights which require quick movement between enemies, i start to fall down. I end up having wasted combo points. The same goes for trash with 2 mobs when i cant swipe + thrash. Against DKs, Rogues, and every other bloody DPS class I am behind. But im not an expert and i could be doing something wrong

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Conatzer View Post
    Use Searing Words and Zen Alchemist stone together. Coren trinket is pretty meh for feral.
    are you sure?

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Kals's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vasek View Post
    are you sure?
    Yes. Searing Words is our best-preraid 5 man heroic trinket and the Alch trinket is amazing for pretty well all classes/specs.

  12. #12
    I feel as though people are completely over looking Nature's vigil as a viable option? At least US ferals seem to be, check out methods mop feral druid guide. This guide is more geared towards the raiding experience as a whole not just min max on paper. Most of what has been said here really goes back to the same arguments against simulationcraft. I would love to see the math on why Nature's vigil is so far behind I have yet to see this and most people are claiming that it is not good. I would also love to see the math on how incarnation loses out to Sotf. I am not claiming to have the answers here just seeking more clearly defined answers I suppose. I would like to add that (I know heroic boss fights are very short and this is why I am experiencing this) I am seeing sustained 70k dps on dungeon boss fights with nature's vigil. I took a look at that guide and decided to give incarnation a shot for a while. I am seeing a lot of top EU druids go nature's vigil and SotF while a few are going incarnation. Absolutely none are going FoN, I am able to understand and accept that DoC is the best talent on paper, however, in practice I feel like this will go to waste HotW and NV are both an absolute damage increase while I could see DoC being very fight oriented and RNG oriented. My main thought is the ultimate goal of maximizing your dps is being overlooked here... raid progression and effectiveness. Just because something is the best on paper does not mean that it will be the best in practice I am willing to bet that all 3 of our final tier talents will have their place on some fight or another as well as all 3 of our lvl 60 tier talents. Keep an open mind and get creative with how you spec especially during progression the time for absolute min and max can come when things are on farm and parses are all that matter.

  13. #13
    I am seeing a lot of top EU druids go nature's vigil and SotF while a few are going incarnation.
    Not sure what you mean by "seeing". Are you just looking at armory? If so those talents are great for burst when doing quests and our 10 million dailies. When raiding starts, and logs come out then you should start looking at what people used per fight, not what they used questing and dungeoning.

  14. #14
    High Overlord Garth's Avatar
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    Let's not forget that while doing the DoC playstyle, ferals still need to be paying attention to mechanics, and doing target swaps, and so on and so on. Not to mention the complexity of the rotation will make it impossible to do even competently in most situations. I think most people are going to opt for one of the other 2, most likely nature's vigil lined up with berserk or even 6% agility from HotW might be good as well. I see these as the better choices for progression, where people are still learning fights, and once mechanics are second nature, it might make sense to mess around with DoC. That's just my take, because the rotation (borrowed from method's guide) is as follows:

    1. Precast healing touch on yourself
    2. Go cat form and use savage roar
    3. Pop incarnation.
    4. Prepot, charge in and Faerie fire while in the air.
    5. Rake
    6. Ravage untill 5 combo points.
    7. Nature's Swiftness+Healing touch on yourself
    8. Pop tiger's fury followed by the rest of your cooldowns
    9. Rip
    10. Rake(overwrite old one so you can sync it with tiger's fury)
    11. Ravage untill 5 combo points.
    12. Cast healing touch on yourself with the predator's swiftness procc then do a Savage roar.
    13. Keep ravaging untill 5 combo points and then healing touch yourself and do 1 ferocious bite.
    14. At this point all your cds are starting to run out so keep burning energy as good as you can and save predator's swiftness untill last second and then healing touch yourself(so you can get 25% damage on the next rake)

    If you can keep all of that straight and still be staying out of bad and doing mechanics, you are a machine. I will be having FUN doing slightly lower DPS probably. I will mess around with DoC in my spare time, but in practice, I think it's going to end up in line with the other level 90 talent choices realistically, and be much less fun to play.

  15. #15
    Loving Feral right now, trying to get another tank so i don't have to use guardian for raiding

    I am 463 geared all gemmed but not quite all enchanted and regularly top the charts with equally geared people, especially for longer fights. Currently hit/exp capped for heroics, i really like not missing even though a miss is not the end of the world.

    I have taken HotW, it helps with those harder melee moments like the stuff which explodes. Pop it and nuke from range, Hurricane and Wrath hit hard. Healer dies but brez on CD, np, HotW gives insane heals.

    From my testing, DC gives a little better dps but you must hit every single HT and gives a lot less versatility so will stick to HotW. Off healing is awesome and will help out the healers, also occasional rdps if needed. Thought about running DC though.

    I also have SotF rather than Inc, love the free energy. And Swiftness over Charge more mobility overall, but will change for charge as needed.

    I always carry a stack of Tomes for changes.

  16. #16
    High Overlord Garth's Avatar
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    I went with NV and macro'd it to berserk/berserking/etc, etc. and I was very pleased with my DPS in Mogushan. It is great because it really doesn't require much additional brainpower, and greatly improves performance. I think for progression, this talent is the clear winner.

    Checked WoL and did ~5k HPSe and ~57k DPSe on Feng as an example. The HPS being spread out over the whole fight gives me the impression that if it only took the uptime on NV into account, that it would be a pretty substantial amount of heals going out. I love this talent.

  17. #17
    Being in a top 100 guild i have noticed that i'm not really on top or near the top of the meter so far through vaults. That's while running DOC, if i'm not DOC I don't even compete with our frost DK. I'm not trying to rant on feral, i love it...one of the more complex rotations I've ran. I'm just not seeing the throughput that I was expecting from beta/simcraft.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Jhabu View Post
    Being in a top 100 guild i have noticed that i'm not really on top or near the top of the meter so far through vaults. That's while running DOC, if i'm not DOC I don't even compete with our frost DK. I'm not trying to rant on feral, i love it...one of the more complex rotations I've ran. I'm just not seeing the throughput that I was expecting from beta/simcraft.
    Strange, I seem to be finding the opposite. Yesterday I pulled 75k on Garajal - fully tank and spank - on top the entire time. Doc is actually less dps than HoTW (use it with an int staff: wrath spam). The second place dps was at 71k.

    Similarly, I was at 68k on Feng, second was around 62k (we did the fight wrong and moved a lot.) I tanked stone guards so who knows on that fight.

    Anyway, ferals are definitely in the upper echelons of power at the moment, I actually expect a mild nerf soon.

  19. #19
    Mechagnome Etapicx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jhabu View Post
    Being in a top 100 guild i have noticed that i'm not really on top or near the top of the meter so far through vaults. That's while running DOC, if i'm not DOC I don't even compete with our frost DK. I'm not trying to rant on feral, i love it...one of the more complex rotations I've ran. I'm just not seeing the throughput that I was expecting from beta/simcraft.
    Get yourself a spell power weapon and enjoy it as long as it lasts.
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  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire valiorik's Avatar
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    So far our kitty (skilled person, 463+, chanted and gemmed) didn't performed well in yesterday raid. Rouges are ripping it's ass straight away by + 10k dps.
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