1. #1

    Did hunters really need a buff?

    I am a semi casual raider on my hunter, who happens to be my alt. What I'm wondering, is did hunters really need a buff? Are they really that far behind? In my hunters group, the only 2 fights I've not been 1st on so far are ji-kun (because I dont get a feather), and megaera (where our boomkin multi dots for star surge procs).

    Am I missing something, or are the other dps in my group slacking?

  2. #2
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    It's not that hunters needed a buff, it was compensation for other nerfs.

    PvP effecting PvE and vice versa again.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by shotz View Post
    I am a semi casual raider on my hunter, who happens to be my alt. What I'm wondering, is did hunters really need a buff? Are they really that far behind? In my hunters group, the only 2 fights I've not been 1st on so far are ji-kun (because I dont get a feather), and megaera (where our boomkin multi dots for star surge procs).

    Am I missing something, or are the other dps in my group slacking?
    I reckon you're talking about normal modes. Test that in hc mode while having all your raid be similar in terms of gear and skill, and you will see where you stand in terms of dps. (middle to bottom in most cases). And I still think this will not be enough.

  4. #4
    Never ever make the mistake of thinking that, because you are on top of the meters in your semi-casual raid group, your casual raid group, or even your hardcore raid group that your class is tuned correctly.

    Don't forget that tuning and balance assumes an equal level of skill and gear. Both of these things will differ in a real raid situation.



    Think of it this way.
    Each class has a maximum theoretical dps potential. Your skill determines how close you can come to that maximum output potential.
    A hunter may have a potential dps of 100k, but a warlock has a maximum potential of 120k.
    However, because you are more skilled than the warlock in question, you pull 90k and he pulls 80k.
    If you were as skilled as the warlock in question, you would be pulling 90k and he would be pulling 108k.

    Imagine the point of buffs being to shrink the difference between theoretical dps potentials.

  5. #5
    The other reason for buffs is that IF players are of equal skill and gearing the hunter isn't sat just because they're a hunter. This goes back to the Wrath mantra, 'bring the player, not the class.' If hunters are too far behind then RLs will say "Gee, I've got buffs and utility covered, should I bring a lock or a hunter in that empty dps spot... hmm locks are noticeably better and both players are about as good as each other... I'll bring the lock, we'll get more DPS."

    This has a trickle down effect even to guilds and raids were it doesn't matter (normal mode guilds, etc) as people start to buy into the idea that 'hunters suck.'

  6. #6
    Brewmaster
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    Yes we did. In fact the buff we're getting is probably not large enough.

    Bring up www.raidbots.com. Filter out weak specs for classes with multiple dps specs (like arms for warriors, etc), and then start browsing through the fights. Regardless if you're looking at 10- or 25-man, normal or HC, top100 or average, you'll see that hunter are decent (meaning we're above average, but far from the top) on maybe 2-3 fights in ToT. On all the other fights, we are usually near the bottom.

    Considering hunters don't bring anything other than dps (I'm not gonna count pet buffs, since that is useless for 25-man raiding), yeah we're in an extremely weak spot right now.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-20 at 10:09 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Arcanimus View Post
    It's not that hunters needed a buff, it was compensation for other nerfs.

    PvP effecting PvE and vice versa again.
    That makes no sense at all. You're claiming because they nerfed hunter in PvP, they buffed us in PvE as compensation?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by shotz View Post
    I am a semi casual raider on my hunter, who happens to be my alt. What I'm wondering, is did hunters really need a buff? Are they really that far behind? In my hunters group, the only 2 fights I've not been 1st on so far are ji-kun (because I dont get a feather), and megaera (where our boomkin multi dots for star surge procs).

    Am I missing something, or are the other dps in my group slacking?
    Yes they did. Compared to some other classes, they are as a whole lagging behind. And you cannot judge if they should be buffed or nerfed based on your personal experence. Blizz looks at the overall picture. They are getting buffed for the same reasons Retri pallies are getting buffed. To help them as a "whole" be closer to the other classes in most situations.

  8. #8
    Herald of the Titans SL1200's Avatar
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    Until I can compete with the rogue in my raid group, I'm going to say yes we need buffs.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by shotz View Post
    I am a semi casual raider on my hunter, who happens to be my alt. What I'm wondering, is did hunters really need a buff? Are they really that far behind? In my hunters group, the only 2 fights I've not been 1st on so far are ji-kun (because I dont get a feather), and megaera (where our boomkin multi dots for star surge procs).

    Am I missing something, or are the other dps in my group slacking?
    you are probably outgearing a lot your teammates or they really have no clue how to play while you do.

    simple as that, i cant touch either my rogue or dk on my raid, the dps difference is huge. i do keep up with our lock wich shouldnt happen ever. i wont come and say locks need a buff because they actually need a nerf.

  10. #10
    In terms of filling a set role in a raid team, we can only really be compared to other pure DPS classes. In this comparison we are currently well behind all the others.

    My Enh shaman is quite far behind everyone in terms of DPS, but then he does do between 30k and 50k HPS on certain encounters. If his DPS was the same as mine, why would the raid need me?

    The DPS buff is certainly welcome, although the Binding Shot removal is a major nerf to our PvE utility.

  11. #11
    http://www.simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html

    Uhm, where is hunters? Oh there, on the bottom of food chain...

    Maybe after 5.3 i'll finally outdps a warlock in my guild, who knows...

  12. #12
    The Patient Kluddesu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naggash View Post
    http://www.simulationcraft.org/520/Raid_T15H.html

    Uhm, where is hunters? Oh there, on the bottom of food chain...

    Maybe after 5.3 i'll finally outdps a warlock in my guild, who knows...
    Don't trust simcrafts to 100%. That's under perfect conditions whatsoever.

    Out of the pure dps (Mage,Rogue,Warlock,Hunter) Our class is the only one that's been abit low.

    We're not really in a bad spot. It's just that. If you have a Warlock/Rogue/Mage with 532 Ilvl, and then you're a Hunter with 532 Ilvl and everyone can push their maximum potential. The W/R/M will be higher on the dps than the Hunter.

    TLDR: Other pure dps smacks hunters on the noggin in simillar gear/skill. the buff was welcome.
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  13. #13
    ofc it's needed, and still it won't be enough. I top lfr metters with my ww monk alt which is one of the lowest dps right now, the fact that you top the metters in your guild proves nothing.

  14. #14
    Brewmaster Arcanimus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beace View Post
    That makes no sense at all. You're claiming because they nerfed hunter in PvP, they buffed us in PvE as compensation?
    They nerfed BM PvP burst, buffed BM PvE sustain, and as an afterthought, decided to give some love to hunters in general. (AotH, Rabid)
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimord View Post
    Mr.EvilGreedyPresident goes "MWAHAHAH YOU PUNY PROGRAMMER, I'M BUYING A NEW FERRARI AND THERE'S O MONEY LEFT FOR YOUR PUNY CONTENT, WITHER AND DIE AND SCREW THE PLAYERS MWAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHA *thunder echoes in the distance*"
    Quote Originally Posted by GennGreymane View Post
    *bro fist*
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