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  1. #21
    I miss Wrath-style healing.

    Yes, I'm aware I may be the only one.
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  2. #22
    Meh, I hated WotLK. It brought us the Dungeon Finder and Death Knights, along with a whole expansion filled with Undead. It had its upsides such as Ulduar, and ICC was a really fun raid (even though it was out for a little too long). But in general I recall that I hated it.

    Had ten times more fun in early Cataclysm with the new dungeons, until those were nerfed to high hell due to people not being able to use crowd control and actually work as a group in group content. It's amusing, CC was created for PvE, now it's almost exclusively used in PvP.

  3. #23
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    Wrath was also when more players jumped on board and they needed to appease them all.

    Cata didn't appease to enough so they jumped ship, along with the fact a large number of them were long time players who were simply tired of playing a game after 6/7 years.

    Mists balances it out well, but raid difficulty could be tweaked a bit more.
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  4. #24
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    I'm a wrath baby so I'll have to agree that I liked wotlk the most. Everything felt special, but leveling during wotlk was the biggest bore I've ever had. Could be primarily because I HATE Northrend leveling A LOT. I like the lore behind it, but the leveling was just so boring... Highest level I ever got was 72 as DK.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaozu View Post
    Meh, I hated WotLK. It brought us the Dungeon Finder and Death Knights, along with a whole expansion filled with Undead. It had its upsides such as Ulduar, and ICC was a really fun raid (even though it was out for a little too long). But in general I recall that I hated it.

    Had ten times more fun in early Cataclysm with the new dungeons, until those were nerfed to high hell due to people not being able to use crowd control and actually work as a group in group content. It's amusing, CC was created for PvE, now it's almost exclusively used in PvP.
    I was always so afraid of being yelled at begin cataclysm for doing things badly. But it always worked out just fine and usually the fault wasn't me, but somebody else messing up CC and so forth. The dungeons really gave a sense of accomplishment when you finished them. Nowadays dungeons are so extremely easy that I solod the normal mode dungeon on my DK, which was my way of leveling to 90...
    Last edited by Ermahgerd; 2013-05-21 at 01:16 AM.

  5. #25
    I'm right with you... I could write a dissertation as to why Wrath was so amazing - and what Blizz totally missed about it when going "forward".

    My favorite was LFD. 12 dungeons meant they never got old... they were 20 minute action-packed funfests where I got to USE my raid weapons/armor and see a difference I can make. And dungeons ALWAYS gave useful rewards even at a raid tier. From Gold, to blue Shards and epic shards (can't get that from 5 mans anymore), to frozen orbs (useful for crafting and/or buying other rare crafting mats), badges could buy heirlooms, BoE epics to sell, mounts, rep tabards, rep tokens, pets, other raid-tier crafting orbs.

    That's just LFD... I can go on and on about the design of the whole land, the fact I LEARNED and SAW the lich king do bad things and understood why he became who he was, the variety of landscapes, I just can't get over how much you could do.

    If there's any problem with WoW I could point to today, it would be that. It's not about having just a variety of things you can do, but a variety of things you can do and NOT become bored with them.

    You should walk out of a dungeon saying "OK, what did I get in my haul today?" instead of saying "Damn... I need to run this dungeon XYZ 20 more times so I can hit exalted in that rep....ugh". I did that with Wrath LFD and general adventuring. I couldn't do that with Cataclysm...
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  6. #26
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    I loved WOTLK, was super alt friendly, and I enjoyed playing my alts back then, haven't really had that urge to level my alts since Cata/MoP, although I am enjoying MoP immensely!

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by ablib View Post
    12 months of ICC actually. So if you don't count Ruby Sanctum, there was 12 months of no new content, yet the game still climbed to 12 million players by the end of the expansion.

    Some may argue that the climb from the end of BC to the end of Wrath was weak compared to the end of Vanilla, however I think it would be more appropriate to say 12 million was the player saturation point.

    Ever since then, the game has lost 4 million players. Sure some may just be tired of the game, but it would seem it would be wise of Blizzard to try to emulate Wrath's winning formula. Shockingly, they do not appear to be doing that.

    Again, Blizzard states that people drift because of no new content, so their focus is to push content out faster and faster. Then what made subs continue to rise in Wrath even though we went from December 2009 to December 2010 without a new raid?
    Actually, subs steadily declined over that period. They only jumped up when Cata was nearing release.
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  8. #28
    Elemental Lord Destil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aquamonkey View Post
    Actually, subs steadily declined over that period. They only jumped up when Cata was nearing release.
    Yep.

    2 expansions for a single game is very, very big.

    After that the game had been out for around 6/7 years.

    People get tired.

    People need to accept that.
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  9. #29
    Seems like a lot of people have short memories.

    Healing was incredibly dull in Wrath. Chain Heal, Rejuv, Bubble, Whatever 1 big thing pallys do.
    Tanking is much more improved with the new active mitigation abilities.
    LFG was painful. With the exception for bosses, it was mind sear, bladestorm, hurricane etc.,
    PvP was awful. "Is that a destro/ele ..." (dead).

    Raiding was good. Raiding is good now too.\

    Edit: Does anyone remember the amount of hatred people had for WotLK right before Cata, people couldn't stand it.
    Last edited by Antti; 2013-05-21 at 01:32 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Mormolyce View Post
    Really? Because Cataclysm was effectively exactly the same as Wrath and they got excoriated for it.

    And actually I think MoP carries on all the main elements of Wrath and just added a lot of new content on top.
    no sorry removing shared lockouts from the game had a lot of negative effects on the social aspects of the game. it removed a large portion of quality raiders from the pug scene, the people who carried 10s to victory when they were bored/gearing alts/etc. it killed guild alliances who would form 25s for off-day raiding. it killed GDKP. im sure there are more things too that im just not thinking of.

    whats that you say? "but but but guilds were 'forced' to clear 10 and 25 to stay competitive thats not fun!" the guilds who did that still do all sorts of crazy shit now - 3 clears a week for alts, camping BMAH and farming gold, camping world bosses for days, mandatory daily grinding, etc... top guilds will always do anything and everything to get any sort of edge. removing shared lockouts for their sake was a mistake.

    they removed it so they didn't have to balance so many difficulties, hm? well, they added in stupid LFR, now didn't they? nobody likes LFR - sure, people do it, and blizzard goes "look! people are doing so much lfr all the time! they must love it!" haha no. wow is hemorrhaging subs every quarter, just because they do it doesn't make it fun. i guess over time the devs got a little too big headed. MMO's don't stand on gameplay alone because gameplay wise they are very boring. kill the social aspects of the game, kill the game. wow was made as much by its community as it was by its developers, which is why no other game has come close to it in terms of success.

    yes, wotlk was the sweet spot, had TEH HARDCORE YOGG NO LITES and it had its 10m lolmode. it had plenty of dailies, but they all gave worthwhile cosmetic rewards. and badges feel a lot better than "points". logistically, i can see why they moved to points but this is supposed to be an MMO - a loose facsimile of a functioning world. sorry, i don't open up my wallet and go to the points tab to see if i can afford a new shirt.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-21 at 01:36 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Antti View Post
    Seems like a lot of people have short memories.

    Healing was incredibly dull in Wrath. Chain Heal, Rejuv, Bubble, Whatever 1 big thing pallys do.
    Tanking is much more improved with the new active mitigation abilities.
    LFG was painful. With the exception for bosses, it was mind sear, bladestorm, hurricane etc.,
    PvP was awful. "Is that a destro/ele ..." (dead).

    Raiding was good. Raiding is good now too.\

    Edit: Does anyone remember the amount of hatred people had for WotLK right before Cata, people couldn't stand it.

    edit: i do remember. i also remember i played because my friends played, and we had a good time, even if a lot of the content was dull. the game is better now, sure, but in an effort to appeal to the casual 3hr/week player they killed the social aspects. like i said before, mmos dont stand on gameplay alone because the genre, from a single player perspective, is fucking boring.
    Last edited by crunk; 2013-05-21 at 01:44 AM.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Birkhoff View Post
    From pvp to pve, from hardcore to casual. Patch 3.3.5 was icing on the cake.

    Shifting away from WotLK formula was a huge mistake. A wise man once said: Never change a winning team.

    They should've added more content, not completely change how things work. Blizzard hasn't reached the sweet spot again since 4.0
    I pretty much agree in terms of difficulty (except perhaps as to where it concerns PVP, I don't approve of any place that's been at in the entire history of the game, it needs to be entirely reworked, IMO), all we need is WotLK style, with LFR as an option, and it'd be perfect. The problem, it seems to me, is that they use LFR as an excuse to cater the "primary" endgame content soley to a certain minority type of player, and the excuse is that if you can't do it, then there's LFR, rather than having content catering to a wider audience, everyone is seemingly shoveled into LFR. I do approve, however, that old content is kept relevant longer under MoP's system, even if it's just LFR versions.

  12. #32
    Legendary! The Glitch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antti View Post

    Raiding was good. Raiding is good now too.\

    Edit: Does anyone remember the amount of hatred people had for WotLK right before Cata, people couldn't stand it.
    I remember alot of loudmouthed complainers, moaning about every expack, thing is alot of us don't complain, because we enjoy the expansions, maybe a few little things that niggle, but we don't go shouting from the rooftops, we just enjoy the stuff we like

    I loved TBC, but it it had its faults, but i still played and had fun, same can be said about all the other expansions too, Wotlk was great for my alt addiction,

  13. #33
    Disagree. Wrath did not hit all sweet spots.

    -PvP started being awful; burst-oriented strategy wise. They had to remove "the Flawless Victor" titles because it was so damn easy for DKs and paladins to get it the first season. Prot paladins healing and hitting Rank 1 without even having to juke interrupts in 2nd season. Rise of TSG plate cleaves, and then wizard cleaves by the end.

    -Gotta disagree with MVallas, because to say that gear made a difference in dungeons is to err on the side of saying 1) that the dungeons couldn't be easily cleared (other than Halls of Lightning, Oculus, and occasional tank screwin up first boss in Azjol); or 2) That gear wasn't easy (Tier 9 says hello) the whole expansion . Gear just meant AEing things to death and going "Shit I gotta wait 15 minutes for this queue to pop and faceroll a dungeon for my daily frost badges" by the end of the expansion once LFD was introduced. You can still get valor these days so I doubt that's changed in Mists from what everyone says.

    -Raids at start sucked. Mixed bag; 50-50. T7 is largely not talked about on the forums because most people prefer to talk about Ulduar being good, ToC sucking (it was better than T7), and then ICC usually split between Lich King being awesome and rest of it being above average.
    -Lore concerning everyone's beloved WC3 heroes was cheesy. Arthas has a young version of his soul at the bottom of Icecrown Citadel in the Nerubian depths? <Insert cliche Dr. Claw joke and complaints about Anub'arak and Kel'thuzad>
    Last edited by Confirm Deny; 2013-05-21 at 02:06 AM.
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  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJamesLich View Post
    Personally I thought wrath was doo doo, LFD made dungeons a snooze fest, pull all the trash in the room at once and aoe without risk of dying, ICC for a year, PvP had some massive ups and downs in wrath too. I think the high sub rate had more to do with the lich king story line which many people wanted to see play out from the wc3 days.
    I'm guessing you didn't run dungeons before LFD then.

  15. #35
    The Patient
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    I mean how can it be possible 12 MONTHS OF NO CONTENT .

    Wotlk had great leveling , great lore , good pvp and pve but had many failures.

    -Naxx was lol
    -Toc was a disaster after Ulduar and introduced many changes in raiding that people disliked .
    -Ruby sanctum was not interesting

  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by reckleon View Post
    8.5 million people everyone with different toughts. its no point on having a winning team going if only a few enjoyed
    going by that logic 12 million disagree with you.

  17. #37
    Ulduar was this games pinnacle for me.

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  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by MAXCAVALERA View Post
    I mean how can it be possible 12 MONTHS OF NO CONTENT .

    Wotlk had great leveling , great lore , good pvp and pve but had many failures.

    -Naxx was lol
    -Toc was a disaster after Ulduar and introduced many changes in raiding that people disliked .
    -Ruby sanctum was not interesting
    Ulduar was the only good part of Wrath.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by crunk View Post
    no sorry removing shared lockouts from the game had a lot of negative effects on the social aspects of the game. it removed a large portion of quality raiders from the pug scene, the people who carried 10s to victory when they were bored/gearing alts/etc. it killed guild alliances who would form 25s for off-day raiding. it killed GDKP. im sure there are more things too that im just not thinking of.

    whats that you say? "but but but guilds were 'forced' to clear 10 and 25 to stay competitive thats not fun!" the guilds who did that still do all sorts of crazy shit now - 3 clears a week for alts, camping BMAH and farming gold, camping world bosses for days, mandatory daily grinding, etc... top guilds will always do anything and everything to get any sort of edge. removing shared lockouts for their sake was a mistake.

    they removed it so they didn't have to balance so many difficulties, hm? well, they added in stupid LFR, now didn't they? nobody likes LFR - sure, people do it, and blizzard goes "look! people are doing so much lfr all the time! they must love it!" haha no. wow is hemorrhaging subs every quarter, just because they do it doesn't make it fun. i guess over time the devs got a little too big headed. MMO's don't stand on gameplay alone because gameplay wise they are very boring. kill the social aspects of the game, kill the game. wow was made as much by its community as it was by its developers, which is why no other game has come close to it in terms of success.

    yes, wotlk was the sweet spot, had TEH HARDCORE YOGG NO LITES and it had its 10m lolmode. it had plenty of dailies, but they all gave worthwhile cosmetic rewards. and badges feel a lot better than "points". logistically, i can see why they moved to points but this is supposed to be an MMO - a loose facsimile of a functioning world. sorry, i don't open up my wallet and go to the points tab to see if i can afford a new shirt.
    Not how I remember it at all. Everyone, literally everyone, did both 10 and 25. There was no such thing as a 10m guild, just guilds that failed to fill a 25m roster. And people pugged 25m every week. It was a miserable experience, you'd wait hours for it to form and be lucky to get to 4/12 without the group falling apart - and thanks to the shitty lockout mechanism that meant you couldn't continue. Not to mention the ninjas.

    Anyway, the casuals who pugged 10m are just running LFR now instead, where you don't sit around forever waiting for groups to form and you can't get ninjaed. Much better system.
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  20. #40
    Scarab Lord breadisfunny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stomination View Post
    Ulduar was the only good part of Wrath.
    i happened to love naxxramas.

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