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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Uglytoes View Post
    On most fights I beat our 2h frost dk.
    Not that I don't believe you but could you show me some logs? I just want to see what he's doing.


    Injected | <Void> | US #28 | Laughing Skull US

    14/14H - Recruiting for WoD


  2. #22
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by splinternz View Post
    Damn.

    My question is for those who are able to run the figures (currently at work myself) - will UH continue to beat frost by a fair margin, or will it have the effect of bringing it down to somewhere around Frost?
    Heading home after a nightshift, will run some sims when I wake up if someone else hasn't. It'll likely be in the region of a 2-3% DPS nerf or similar to not having a flask+food in a raid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Uglytoes View Post
    I just want to know what the reasoning is behind the nerf.
    Originally it seemed like they were trying to make the festerblight playstyle less attractive, "high risk - moderate reward" was the term I think they used.

    Unholy might and Festering Strike were nerfed along with a Scourge Strike buff, it effectively killed festerblight but did little to dent traditional unholy-play... Which was fine IMO. (later reverted)

    Then it was decided that tricks of the trade was the culprit so they stopped diseases benefiting from the 15% extra damage (which, is pretty smart seeing as you can roll that 15% for the entirety of some encounters)

    This latest change just means we're getting a flat damage nerf across the board. It doesn't even seem to be targeting festerblight, it's just a nerf.

    Maybe we're performing a little too well in SoO/tier16 gear, it's no secret that unholy scales better with gear/stats - meh, I dunno, pain in the arse anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokoz View Post
    So.. should I still change to Unholy or stay Frost o-o
    We're not instantly going to be garbage... If anything we were the best melee for a lot of encounters. It's still a case of "play what you enjoy most" IMO
    Last edited by vmagik; 2013-05-21 at 05:11 AM.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Inject View Post
    Not sure what the big deal is. Frost isn't that bad.
    Boring, and rather not play DK at all than being forced to go back to Frost again, should just roll the flavor of the decade class and go ranged casters it is all that ever is good in this game in the last few expansions

  4. #24
    Unholy is the strongest melee spec in ToT. Better than assassination on all but a few encounters. Its damage is an outlier for melee. Don't compare unholy to ranged specs as justification that it isn't an oulier. We all know cloth DPS is treated differently that melee. But unholy is far, FAR ahead of frost, enhance, ret, WW, arms, and feral. Only assassination, and fury on a couple of encounters, are anywhere close.

    Take your blinders off gentlemen.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    Unholy is the strongest melee spec in ToT. Better than assassination on all but a few encounters.
    rogues are preferred for better utility + take way less damage

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Inject View Post
    Not that I don't believe you but could you show me some logs? I just want to see what he's doing.
    Heroic Jinrokh:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-07...e/?s=505&e=751

    Normal Durumu:
    http://worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-l8...e/?s=125&e=364


    There are heroic Durumu attempts in there too.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Inject View Post
    Not that I don't believe you but could you show me some logs? I just want to see what he's doing.
    Because of my post count I think the post I just made with links to logs are going to require approval. Our logs are public.

    Capital Vices - US Eredar

    Shaniqua - Unholy
    Fatalcombat - Frost

  8. #28
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Simmed myself with approximate strength values (will get some more accurate values after post-nightshift sleepage)

    Light movement, standard unholy rotation pre-5.3 - 154k DPS
    Light movement, standard unholy rotation 5.3 - 149k DPS

    about a 3.3% nerf? aint the end of the world
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  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Uglytoes View Post
    I just want to know what the reasoning is behind the nerf.
    They just have no idea about what to do with frost poor gear scalling, so they nerf unholy.

  10. #30
    High Overlord titcch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uglytoes View Post
    I just want to know what the reasoning is behind the nerf.
    Because it's an OP spec when played properly? Our DK with a 517 weapon was putting out more dps than ALL frost DK's with 535/541 weapons with no problem at all.
    WoW Retired (December '13) - Titchy@PS4

  11. #31
    Weapon isn't *that* important to UH. 2H Frost does scale obscenely well with wepdmg however. I don't mind the ToT nerf much, although saying you can't compare melee to ranged is in my opinion partly false. Mages and locks do ridiculous damage right now, yet they're not getting any significant nerfs. Don't get me wrong, I do agree that UH is more or less the top dog in terms of melee dps, but do you really think melee is the standard outlier for dps? I'm kinda worried that mages, locks and warriors are gonna shoot way beyond us in 5.4.

  12. #32
    Dreadlord vmagik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kraeth View Post
    Weapon isn't *that* important to UH. 2H Frost does scale obscenely well with wepdmg however. I don't mind the ToT nerf much, although saying you can't compare melee to ranged is in my opinion partly false. Mages and locks do ridiculous damage right now, yet they're not getting any significant nerfs. Don't get me wrong, I do agree that UH is more or less the top dog in terms of melee dps, but do you really think melee is the standard outlier for dps? I'm kinda worried that mages, locks and warriors are gonna shoot way beyond us in 5.4.
    With the recent focus on multi-target/add/cleave-friendly encounters we're not going to be terrible, whatever happens. This recent nerf isn't a big deal. I'll be sad when feather is obsolete though.

    Edit - you never know, might see gurthalak v2 in SoO :-P
    Last edited by vmagik; 2013-05-21 at 06:02 AM.
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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by titcch View Post
    Because it's an OP spec when played properly? Our DK with a 517 weapon was putting out more dps than ALL frost DK's with 535/541 weapons with no problem at all.
    Not sure to what extent this is true but wouldn't that show more that there is an issue with frost than with unholy ?

  14. #34
    Why not buff Frost and leave UH alone? Blizzard logic >.<

  15. #35
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beefkow View Post
    Wow... you have got to be kidding me, 5% str makes hell of alot of difference, im just completely shocked.

    Unholys are not even REMOTELY overpowered, they are "viable" why do they need to be nerfed? Blizzard doesn't make promises for squat, this just CANNOT BE HAPPENING, it just cannot go undone. Nerfing a class (spec) that doesn't need nerfs just shows that blizzard knows what they're doing (haha..... not).

    In all, im just gonna go caster and faceroll... DONE DEAL
    IDK my less geared unholy DK can beat my skilled geared warrior on a number of fights simply because of how strong festerblight, or even just getting dots up super high is for certain fights, like IQ/Twins.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Darkfriend View Post
    IDK my less geared unholy DK can beat my skilled geared warrior on a number of fights simply because of how strong festerblight, or even just getting dots up super high is for certain fights, like IQ/Twins.
    it's a class problem. we dks like to think that dks are super complicated and hard to play but warriors are by more difficult to play. excluding scaling.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Uglytoes View Post
    I just want to know what the reasoning is behind the nerf.
    It appears to be a FB nerf more than anything. With the TOT no longer powering up our dots and now this it seems to be their way of saying lets put UH back on the shelf.....herp derp[COLOR="red"]

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-21 at 06:33 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by titcch View Post
    Because it's an OP spec when played properly? Our DK with a 517 weapon was putting out more dps than ALL frost DK's with 535/541 weapons with no problem at all.
    I hate to say it but unless your frost dks need some playtime or something they shouldn't be that far apart. Do you have logs you link so we can see what is going on with your heroic geared frost dks being put out by the LFR unholy dk please?
    Last edited by Bullhurley; 2013-05-21 at 06:35 AM.
    "The world needs anger. The world often continues to allow evil to exist because it isn't angry enough."
    -Bede Jarrett (historian)

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uglytoes View Post
    On most fights I beat our 2h frost dk.
    And on fights tonight I beat our unholy dk, spec means nothing. Player skill>>>>>spec hands down. Unholy is not the 'god' spec people keep making it out to be unless you take into account scumbag meter padding. All three specs are relatively competitive nothing more, nothing less.

  19. #39
    Oh ouch, that should teach those dks to stop camping in blood presence. I mean no free deathcoil like every 15 seconds ? Major, major nerf! It's the same as the crappy rage gen for warriors in def stance.

    Sarcasm, btw.

  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skarssen View Post
    Unholy is the strongest melee spec in ToT. Better than assassination on all but a few encounters. Its damage is an outlier for melee. Don't compare unholy to ranged specs as justification that it isn't an oulier. We all know cloth DPS is treated differently that melee. But unholy is far, FAR ahead of frost, enhance, ret, WW, arms, and feral. Only assassination, and fury on a couple of encounters, are anywhere close.

    Take your blinders off gentlemen.

    And to this I point to my previous statement. Unholy is NOT the 'god' spec people try to make it out to be unless you count scumbag meter padding. All three specs are relatively competitive with neither pulling super way out in front.

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