1. #3741
    The Patient Ridethelight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    Sorry if this is old or already posted this thread is so large. Athene love or hate him made some excellent points regarding the new 180 decision made by MS on their restrictions. For people not wanting to watch the video I agree with Athene it wasn't a victory for gamers to make them revert the restrictions. They were forced to do this by a lot of factors and if it was due to gamers outcry it would of happened a lot sooner. Heres the vid.



    Dont believe MS for a second they would of rammed all kinds of restrictions if their fans would of let them.
    Is it so hard for people to understand that they are a company. What is the main goal of a company, make money. They never forced you to buy their product nor like it and still people would go mad about it and feel betrayed. They saw the pre-orders and I bet they saw the massive negativity around the xbox one and reversed some of their decisions.

    They changed it based on what the customer did. In the end every company will screw you over if that means they can/will get more money out of you.

  2. #3742
    Quote Originally Posted by FruitBat69 View Post
    They were forced to do this by a lot of factors and if it was due to gamers outcry it would of happened a lot sooner.
    2 factors.

    1. Overwhelming amounts of negative press from gaming outlets, mainstream news outlets, and from talk shows (Jimmy Fallon taking a few pot shots at it during the PS4 display)

    2. Low pre-orders. By every metric that we had available, the PS4 was crushing the Xbox One in terms of pre-orders. Hell, on Gamestop alone the PS4 controller was outselling the Xbox one for a while.

    Oddly enough, both of these factors are directly tied to gamer outcry. Gaming journalists are all gamers themselves, and they also frequently function as a reflection of popular sentiment (see: D3 scoring super high despite server problems, SimCity scoring low because of server problems. D3 was massively popular with fans, SimCity was much maligned). And as for the pre-order bit, the product evangelist/early adopter group drives a lot of the early excitement for new products. If you can't get these people on your side, it's hard to get off to a strong start. Seeing as these people are some of the most hardcore of gamers, they were also generally against the DRM features on the Xbox One.

    So in a roundabout, it actually was because of gamer outcry.

  3. #3743
    The Patient Ridethelight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Yes it was the XboxOne is apart of it "even tho it did lose" so it was necessary to post it because to me it still shows people are still pissed about the XboxOne and Microsoft.
    Yet what do we gain from the video? Still you only fell the need to post it in this forum, like I said why not in the PS4 thread?
    Also that poll was already announced before they changed the whole drm shit and blablabla. I don't think anyone even cares who "won", people will just buy their console who they think will fit the best with their playstyle.

  4. #3744
    Im just waiting for them to launch the XboxOne and turn around and stick all those features back into the system like a year after launch lol.
    "A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the majority discovers it can vote itself largess out of the public treasury. After that, the majority always votes for the candidate promising the most benefits with the result the democracy collapses because of the loose fiscal policy ensuing, always to be followed by a dictatorship, then a monarchy." -Alexander Tytler

  5. #3745
    Quote Originally Posted by edgecrusher View Post
    And before the, "OH! BUT PIRATES/HACKERS WILL CRACK THAT!!!!!" They'll crack whatever Microsoft or Sony puts on to restrict them in the first place. Screwing over honest consumers because of issues with hackers/piracy is never acceptable.
    Don't be so quick to predict that, the PS3 was damn near uncrackable for the first couple years till someone figured out a weak link in the random number algorithm that was used to encrypt the higher access levels of the OS kernels. Clearly they will not be making this mistake again. (they fixed it shortly after with a new firmware version as well which has not to this date been cracked) Yes the XBox360 was cracked fairly fast and was pirated pretty much its entire lifespan but clearly they learned something too?

    It's impossible to predict if they will make another mistake that will compromise the new systems but equally impossible to say for sure that they will.

    Obviously they will want to prevent piracy one way or another, authenticating a game online is the best way to do this which is what MS initially wanted to do, since they can't get away with this they have to put in other measures (like requiring the disc in the drive for authentication checks and not allowing sharing/reselling of digital)

    Sure they could have kept the 24h checkins for digital only and still allowed the share/resell but i think the whole checkin mechanic just got to much negative press to justify them keeping it even if it only meant for digital.

    As for the highly abuseable (as far as how they announced the feature) friend and family program falls into the same boat as digital really, without requiring online there would be no feasible way to properly authenticate the games.
    Last edited by Evory; 2013-06-28 at 12:25 AM.

  6. #3746
    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    As for the highly abuseable (as far as how they announced the feature) friend and family program falls into the same boat as digital really, without requiring online there would be no feasible way to properly authenticate the games.
    Like I said they could have gave us the best of both worlds.

    If you want friend/family sharing you must buy your game digital and must be online to play said game and to be able to allow people to share it you must ok each person who try's to.

    If you want hard copys of games that is fine as well as long as you accept that you can't use family/friend sharing.


    It is not hard for Microsoft to still make all the things they wanted to do work its just that they got pissed the game was not being play'ed there way so they took there ball and went home. Gamer's want choice just like everyone else doing everything else when you start taking choice's away people get pissed as you clearly seen.
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  7. #3747
    Quote Originally Posted by Evory View Post
    As for the highly abuseable (as far as how they announced the feature) friend and family program falls into the same boat as digital really, without requiring online there would be no feasible way to properly authenticate the games.
    And I'm fine with that. Features like that requiring a constant online connection is fine, because you still have access to all locally stored games attached to your account when it's offline.

    I don't think you'll find many (if any) people who would be against requiring an internet connection to use that optional feature.

  8. #3748
    Quote Originally Posted by Jtbrig7390 View Post
    Like I said they could have gave us the best of both worlds.

    If you want friend/family sharing you must buy your game digital and must be online to play said game and to be able to allow people to share it you must ok each person who try's to.

    If you want hard copys of games that is fine as well as long as you accept that you can't use family/friend sharing.


    It is not hard for Microsoft to still make all the things they wanted to do work its just that they got pissed the game was not being play'ed there way so they took there ball and went home. Gamer's want choice just like everyone else doing everything else when you start taking choice's away people get pissed as you clearly seen.
    Indeed, but as you said there is just so much negative vibe surrounding the whole online DRM at this point that they most likely just cut out the bad apple altogether to try and restore some interest in the system. (Which seems to have worked looking at pre-order numbers)

    Had they left part of the online DRM even if was for digital only it would not have had the same effect of clearly sending the message across.

  9. #3749
    Scarab Lord Collegeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridethelight View Post
    Is it so hard for people to understand that they are a company. What is the main goal of a company, make money. They never forced you to buy their product nor like it and still people would go mad about it and feel betrayed. They saw the pre-orders and I bet they saw the massive negativity around the xbox one and reversed some of their decisions.

    They changed it based on what the customer did. In the end every company will screw you over if that means they can/will get more money out of you.
    This is such bad logic. Not every company is Enron. Not every company will go outside ethical standards and get the famous customer choice poo award.

    Profits has always meant being good to customers. Profits =/= screwing over your customers. If you can find that in one executive strategy textbook, then I will eat my hat.

  10. #3750
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridethelight View Post
    Is it so hard for people to understand that they are a company. What is the main goal of a company, make money.-snip-
    ...make money.... through providing excellent, reliant and reputable service for their customers.

    Pretty much what you wrote there is not just M$'s problem, but most of America's corporate mentality today from what I've seen here.

    It's like all the companies here totally dropped the "Serving" part and just focused on the "making money" part, forgetting that there's this bit in between called "Making the customer happy by providing excellent service".

    M$ initially dropped that in favor of just making the publishers happy at THE EXPENSE of their customer base. They've had it all bass-ackwards, and I'm still not convinced they know otherwise right now.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  11. #3751
    Bloodsail Admiral ranku's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridethelight View Post
    Is it so hard for people to understand that they are a company. What is the main goal of a company, make money. They never forced you to buy their product nor like it and still people would go mad about it and feel betrayed. They saw the pre-orders and I bet they saw the massive negativity around the xbox one and reversed some of their decisions.

    They changed it based on what the customer did. In the end every company will screw you over if that means they can/will get more money out of you.

    see the problem here is that, yes they exist to make money. but that does not give them the right to pull out anti consumer practices in the first place. as for "no one is forcing you to buy it" well, that's a horrible, horrible, argument. just because you are "not forced" to do something doesn't mean that the ones TRYING TO GET YOU TO are doing the right thing. of course people get mad and feel betrayed with them, and rightfully so. they do this because they see that microsoft had just gone through a thinly veiled attempt at declaring war on the consumer but then turned and ran once their shareholders started complaining about their preorder sales.
    Quote Originally Posted by ohshift View Post
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  12. #3752
    Scarab Lord Collegeguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by paralleluniverse View Post
    Perhaps I should stop responding to people like you who don't even bother reading my posts. There's no point talking to people who are incapable of engaging with my arguments because they haven't bother to read to find out what those arguments are.

    If you have something to say on the substance of the post by reading the post, then I'm happy to discuss it, otherwise, there's no point.
    Indeed, I mean if you actually bothered to read your own posts and check sources that you cite, you might have noticed that you proved yourself wrong, and effectively contradicted yourself in your own post.
    Here, I will help you.
    http://www.escapistmagazine.com/vide...s-Away-With-It
    Last edited by Collegeguy; 2013-06-28 at 03:04 AM.

  13. #3753
    Quote Originally Posted by ranku View Post

    see the problem here is that, yes they exist to make money. but that does not give them the right to pull out anti consumer practices in the first place. as for "no one is forcing you to buy it" well, that's a horrible, horrible, argument. just because you are "not forced" to do something doesn't mean that the ones TRYING TO GET YOU TO are doing the right thing. of course people get mad and feel betrayed with them, and rightfully so. they do this because they see that microsoft had just gone through a thinly veiled attempt at declaring war on the consumer but then turned and ran once their shareholders started complaining about their preorder sales.
    THANK YOU for sharing that video. Aside from his weird "story" asides... the whole point of his video is 100% accurate.

    As I said in MANY threads prior (not just gaming), making money isn't bad - it's when people make MORE money at the direct expense of its customer and work force that I have a serious problem with.
    "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead... and that World of Warcraft... died with him..."

    Quote Originally Posted by BenBos View Post
    That's the ONLY reason you would post 9600 posts over 3 years: a mission of hate.

  14. #3754
    Legendary! draykorinee's Avatar
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    Good video, I like the point that just because thats the kind of consumer you are dont tell everyone they have to agree with you, Paralleluniverse could learn a thing or two.

  15. #3755
    The Patient Ridethelight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Collegeguy View Post
    This is such bad logic. Not every company is Enron. Not every company will go outside ethical standards and get the famous customer choice poo award.

    Profits has always meant being good to customers. Profits =/= screwing over your customers. If you can find that in one executive strategy textbook, then I will eat my hat.
    Like I wasn't exaggerating....
    Profits has always meant being good to customers.
    So yea what about EA? They were voted worse company in US or something, yet they still make profit. Maybe not the same as before but they still make profit.

    ...make money.... through providing excellent, reliant and reputable service for their customers.

    Pretty much what you wrote there is not just M$'s problem, but most of America's corporate mentality today from what I've seen here.

    It's like all the companies here totally dropped the "Serving" part and just focused on the "making money" part, forgetting that there's this bit in between called "Making the customer happy by providing excellent service".

    M$ initially dropped that in favor of just making the publishers happy at THE EXPENSE of their customer base. They've had it all bass-ackwards, and I'm still not convinced they know otherwise right now.
    Yea but I don't expect it from companies anymore. If I think their product is worth my money I will buy it, if it isn't I won't.
    Last edited by Ridethelight; 2013-06-28 at 07:33 AM.

  16. #3756
    I don't really understand the companies are there to make money argument. That's like saying earth is kind of round. Well, yeah it is ... so what. We don't buy products so companies make money, we buy products because we like them. This kind of argument is a brain fart that adds nothing constructive to the discussion.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  17. #3757
    Sony leads the charge this upcoming generation; the tone has already been set.

    Microsoft reversing their used games & 24 hour connectivity showed a lot of weakness.

  18. #3758
    The Patient Ridethelight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    I don't really understand the companies are there to make money argument. That's like saying earth is kind of round. Well, yeah it is ... so what. We don't buy products so companies make money, we buy products because we like them. This kind of argument is a brain fart that adds nothing constructive to the discussion.
    Not sure if you were refering to my post but this wasn't the exact argument. I only said that the main goal of companies is to make money, yet some people still don't understand this. It is just that some people think that some companies are their friend and when do they something bad or make a mistake they should now hate them and act like they killed your parents.

    These companies are also here to make our lives better or worse.
    Last edited by Ridethelight; 2013-06-28 at 08:19 AM.

  19. #3759
    Quote Originally Posted by Ridethelight View Post
    Not sure if you were refering to my post but this wasn't the exact argument. I only said that the main goal of companies is to make money, yet some people still don't understand this. It is just that some people think that some companies are their friend and when do they something bad or make a mistake they should now hate them and act like they killed your parents.

    These companies are also here to make our lives better or worse.
    There is a difference between not understanding something and ignoring something. Companies making money is on top of list of what investors care about. Companies making good products is on top of list of what customers care about.

    If the company makes great products then even customer may become interested in the company making more money ... but without the product there is nothing to be interested about.

    You can't say that ppl don't understand the basic companies->money. It can very well be that without compelling product they just don't care one bit about the money side. I mean ... why should you care if a company that makes bad product makes more money.

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  20. #3760
    The Patient Ridethelight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    There is a difference between not understanding something and ignoring something. Companies making money is on top of list of what investors care about. Companies making good products is on top of list of what customers care about.

    If the company makes great products then even customer may become interested in the company making more money ... but without the product there is nothing to be interested about.

    You can't say that ppl don't understand the basic companies->money. It can very well be that without compelling product they just don't care one bit about the money side. I mean ... why should you care if a company that makes bad product makes more money.
    You know my argument was more made against the guy who posted that athene video. Why are we even talking about this, I only wanted to say that some people should not take these things like they murdered 100 people. Companies also make mistakes and I don't justify any of these mistakes but acting like a child and saying M$ I will never buy any products of you because you betrayed me and tried to fuck me will not help you at all. Well goodluck with that attitude, you will have a small list of products you can buy.
    Last edited by Ridethelight; 2013-06-28 at 12:01 PM.

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