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  1. #1

    [Resto] Force of Nature and 5.3

    Has anyone done any numbers on the revamped Treants in 5.3? Are they worth it? Is it a niche option for certain fights? Or are they still worthless vs. Incarnation or SotF?

  2. #2
    If you read the thread, which should be directly below this one. It is infact better to use Treants over Incarnation now.
    Assuming you a balance druid.

  3. #3
    Depends on what spec you are talking about. There is a thread for Moonkins already, I can't put links in my posts yet but if you search for "[Balance] 5.3 Force of Nature", you will find it (it's probably on the first page anyways).

    If you are talking about Resto, Feral or guardian you will have to to let us know so someone can better address your concerns.

  4. #4
    Sorry. Should have clarified. I play resto as my MS.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Slippykins's Avatar
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    Mind if I edit the title to include [Resto] for clarification?

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Slippykins View Post
    Mind if I edit the title to include [Resto] for clarification?
    Yes please. This is what I get for posting late at night. A vague, nondescript post that is impossible to answer. Sorry.

  7. #7
    I'd like to hear what others think about this too. Especially from people who tested on the PTR.
    Personally, I'm quite excited about the new FoN though it may still end up being sub-par. The concept is nice though, since you can have 100% uptime.
    We can be a healing pet class.

    Otherwise, I first saw it as a lazy talent (it was before at least) but having 3 charges may make for more interesting decisions or whether to go with burst (summoning all 3) or sustained (1 at a time).
    Still, I wonder if you summon all three then they'd all swiftmend your current target. That would be a waste, but I wouldn't be surprised.

  8. #8
    I'm not playing on the PTR so I can't give you personal feedback for it but I went through the Elitist Jerk thread and picked out a few quotes from the contributor Kjeldorian, who seems to be one of the more active users there trying to document the new FoN (for resto):

    FoN does not benefit from the 2 pc t15 for the immediate SM portion and the mob goes directly into chain spamming 2.5 second casts that heal for about 1/2 a rejuv tick (10-15k varying with SP). The SM / Efflo heal is about a 10th of the users values.
    Comparing FoN to other comparable classes the treants would be equivalent to a Shaman's Healing Stream Totem is just about the magnitude of the heal and frequency. There are some differences such as the efflo and 3 in a 1 min vs 2 in a minute (Shaman's have a lot of neat little tricks pertaining totems but would be a tangent).

    Thus the mentality of the talent is more suited if you're familiar with how and when shaman's use their go to totem.
    The treants are expected to have a low overheal value in similarity to healing stream totem (HST), given the magnitude of the heal (14k with ~33k SP on PTR) with respect to about a ~3%-5% max hp (~500k, Heroic geared) the overheal magnitude should be small.

    The treants are a bit slow on the pickup, but there are certainly encounters where everyone will not be topped off and the small fire and forget would be beneficial.

  9. #9
    Thanks Brood. I'm also curious as to what it means by "current target". If I pop HotW to dps the boss (and obviously have the boss targeted), will the treants just sit there looking pretty yet effectively useless? Or do they heal any friendly target that is low, like a smart heal? Or do they go to your focus target? It would be nice if all three would cast on different targets and not just the MT or whoever.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Shiftyshifty View Post
    Thanks Brood. I'm also curious as to what it means by "current target". If I pop HotW to dps the boss (and obviously have the boss targeted), will the treants just sit there looking pretty yet effectively useless? Or do they heal any friendly target that is low, like a smart heal? Or do they go to your focus target? It would be nice if all three would cast on different targets and not just the MT or whoever.
    They cast swiftmend on the player you have targeted when summoned, they then proceed to "smart target" heal any injured raid members.
    If you have no player targeted when you summon them - they cast swiftmend on you; then proceed to "smart target" heal injured raid members.

    At least that was my understanding from what i've read from the ptr.
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2013-05-21 at 04:32 PM.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    They cast swiftmend on the player you have targeted when summoned, they then proceed to "smart target" heal any injured raid members.
    If you have no player targeted when you summon them - they cast swiftmend on you; then proceed to "smart target" heal injured raid members.

    At least that was my understanding from what i've read from the ptr.
    Keiyra is correct, Quincunx from EJ tested this on the ptr.
    Checked on PTR, and Hamlet is correct and it does cast on self with boss targeted.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    They cast swiftmend on the player you have targeted when summoned, they then proceed to "smart target" heal any injured raid members.
    If you have no player targeted when you summon them - they cast swiftmend on you; then proceed to "smart target" heal injured raid members.

    At least that was my understanding from what i've read from the ptr.
    Thats good to hear. I guess that means it all comes down to numbers. It will be fun to play around with them for a few days.

  13. #13
    I plan on testing this out tonight and will give a few numbers afterwards. My current plan is to try to always have 1 charge on CD until a DMG heavy phase then to use all charges for burst.

  14. #14
    FoN is bugged atm. Causes the target to gain threat. Which on a raid boss usually = death

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Monkeyofcode View Post
    FoN is bugged atm. Causes the target to gain threat. Which on a raid boss usually = death
    OMG lol i was wondering what was causing the boss to attack targets other than the tank. Well it doesn't always happen so if its a bug, its intermittent. In terms of out put they were pretty solid, on 10 man normal last night they were pulling around 8-10% of my total healing.

    Side Note: OMG the new shrooms are sick!!! 1.4 million non crit if stacked up on say 1 tank. Very sexy burst option now , even with the less than perfect placement mechanic. on some fights they were pulling 15-20% of my healing...and im sure i wasn't using them to their fullest.

  16. #16
    Deleted
    From what I've noticed, it seems to only work when the target is in melee.

  17. #17
    That is incorrect, if the boss mechanic has a anti ranged mechanic it will use it regardless (Durumu Hard Stare, Tortos snapping bite / furor). On H25 Content (H Council -> H Jikun) last night FoN while I was using it accounted for 4-8% of my effective healing which is gives reason for further testing. (Will need to test on harder hps fights such as DA / IQ / TC / LS if they are fixed by today)

    When they are properly fixed I would treat them as a mini SM (1/10th value) and then as a healing stream totem for the rest of the fight.

    On stacked fights it was better to spam 3 out at once, for more spread out fights it was better to use them closer to off cd, keeping one around for quick heals if NS was on CD since they were off the GCD. (RJ initial tick will hit harder, but you can do both!)
    Last edited by Kjeldorian; 2013-05-22 at 06:11 PM. Reason: Errata regarding HPS value.

  18. #18
    Hm, I don't see any Healing Touches on Recount. Any reason for this? They're casting HT right...? Am I missing something?

  19. #19
    Pets are counted separately in addons like recount / skada unless you add them to the owner.

    FoN Resto Treant spell ids for WoL, etc.
    Spellid = 142421 for SM (direct)
    Spellid = 142424 for SM (efllo)
    Spellid = 113828 for HT

  20. #20
    I used FoN in last nights raid for the first 5, Jin on heroic. Definitely very useful magaera, got a very high ranking due to it I believe. You can pretty much dump 3 for each rampage. So for stacking fights they seem to be very valuable or even fights with minimal movement. High movement fights they definitely aren't as good so the other options may be preferred for those fights.

    I'll post log for Magaera (only normal) for those of you interested - http://worldoflogs.com/reports/18ehb...?s=9395&e=9767

    Edit - Just remembered the mighty buff for shrooms, so that obviously played a major part in the Magaera fight too.

    But still noticing a fair amount of healing the treants can put out with the obvious no mana use to cast them, will experiment more with them tonight.
    Last edited by Gags; 2013-05-23 at 04:28 AM.

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