Thread: IRS Scandal

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  1. #441
    Quote Originally Posted by Orbitus View Post
    Should I go get you a backhoe to dig you out of the massive hole you have dug yourself? As everyone else has said speculating is accusing. Accusations usually come with some sort of evidence but when your own evidence was used against you, you casually ignored it. So again you are digging the same hole you had in the last thread that was made.
    obviously none of you are informed enough to male any factual claims. first i never said Obama was directly connect. i made a speculation that he should be held somewhat responsible because the tone he set using Chicago style tactics. a conclusion that many respected columnist have made. take a look at the thread i started about it and you can see for your self.
    the thread was locked because of the scandal deniers like you self get all opposite and use school yard bully tactics gang up and making false claims of crap i never did say . Inform your self here is the thread prove that i said Obama was directly connected http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...at-the-Top-WSJ

    You cant can you so now your integrity and creditability is in question, yes im throwing that out there unless you can prove your claims im questioning you creditability and integrity. Just because MMO-C is a liberal echo chamber and you have a few misinformed ideologues echoing the same thing doesn't make what anything you say a fact. no one that is in the mainstream believe the same as you only 31% of America does while 56% thinks the same as I. your the one on the fringe your the one out of the mainstreams your your one that has buried your head in the sand and ignored all the facts

    this thread alone i have proven that the scandal deniers are misinformed. i have corrected numerous falsehoods. I have proven with facts and case study you cant make an opening statement and then plead the 5th. i have proven with facts their wasn't a increase in IRS applications in the year the decided to do the illegal targeting. I have proven with facts it was only the conservative groups that was targeted. I have proven with facts it is illegal to do so under that hatch act. and i have proven with facts that Steven Miller has admitted the targeting was partisan, and all you got is an opinion from the IG inspector in a audit it wasn't even a investigation and that his opinion is not a well informed one because he didn't even investigate if it was politically motivated, he didn't even question any one out side the IRS about it so all you have to cling to is the "well he is innocent till proven guilty" that might work in a court of law but wake up we are not in a court of law. it is not how it works in public perception. when you plead the 5th when you lie when you cover up when you constantly say i don't know im not responsible for thing my job makes me responsible for it stinks of a crime so go ahead and desperate cling to the only two things you got which one has been been but into question because if the statement under oath by Steven miller because you have nothing else

    you run around and personally attack anyone that threatens you shaky feeble narrative because you have nothing else you have nothing sir so unless you can prove anything with any facts you have nothing but personal attacks

  2. #442
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    obviously none of you are informed enough to male any factual claims.
    So why do you *make* threads, and reply after reply, when you admit it is founded on baseless speculation. Then you berate others for calling out your speculation? Why?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  3. #443
    I'm returning to this thread. Is their a summary of what the accusations are for both sides this morning?

  4. #444
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSageCorban View Post
    I'm returning to this thread. Is their a summary of what the accusations are for both sides this morning?
    "They are most likely guilty because they pleaded the 5th."
    "They're not guilty until proven so beyond a reasonable doubt, and the 5th isn't evidence."
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  5. #445
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    "They are most likely guilty because they pleaded the 5th."
    "They're not guilty until proven so beyond a reasonable doubt, and the 5th isn't evidence."
    You are correct, the 5th is not evidence of guilt or innocence. It may be speculated by those outside the court that it 'could' indicate some sort of guilt may be forthcoming. (as historically pleading the 5th did not turn out well for those who did.) But on it's own, it proves nothing, and just requires more investigation.

  6. #446
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    So why do you *make* threads, and reply after reply, when you admit it is founded on baseless speculation. Then you berate others for calling out your speculation? Why?
    I'm going to second this. How can you call others out for baseless defenses with no facts, when you yourself have made claim after claim with no factual evidence to back it up? Your best and only defense of your wild speculations is that others agree with you. When called out for basically accusing Obama of orchestrating this whole thing, you play the victim, claiming you were "only speculating". When the obvious contradictions of Obama's orchestrations of this entire thing, not long after followed by accusations of Obama's gross incompetence in this whole affair for not managing things better, you have no real reply.

    Every single one of your arguments has been thoroughly dismantled as nothing more than wild claims without any supporting facts. As soon as you can provide something more than a "lots of people agree with me" we'll have a discussion. But there's really nothing more to discuss other than your unwillingness to see that your argument's foundation is made of sand.
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    I'm probably the nicest person on this whole damned forum, and you can make a sig from that.
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    Just have a sig that says "I'm Batman."

  7. #447
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatSageCorban View Post
    You are correct, the 5th is not evidence of guilt or innocence. It may be speculated by those outside the court that it 'could' indicate some sort of guilt may be forthcoming. (as historically pleading the 5th did not turn out well for those who did.) But on it's own, it proves nothing, and just requires more investigation.
    That Lerner chick is fucked. Republicans are pissed that she targeted them and Democrats are pissed that she set this up to get media attention. She is getting thrown under the bus hard and rightfully so by Fox, MSNBC, and CNN is getting stories out of Oklahoma for rating..they will continue news reporting in a week
    http://raptr.com/puremallace/about

    What has been made by QQ can be unmade by QQ!!!

  8. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Puremallace View Post
    That Lerner chick is fucked. Republicans are pissed that she targeted them and Democrats are pissed that she set this up to get media attention. She is getting thrown under the bus hard and rightfully so by Fox, MSNBC, and CNN is getting stories out of Oklahoma for rating..they will continue news reporting in a week
    News outlets are not happy with the administration right now, considering the phone tapping scandal. I don't think they're going to let these go either.

    Edit: As far as how deep the Administration is involved, I am firmly "Not decided". I'll just wait to see how things pan out.
    Last edited by GreatSageCorban; 2013-05-24 at 03:17 PM.

  9. #449
    Quote Originally Posted by Rukentuts View Post
    So why do you *make* threads, and reply after reply, when you admit it is founded on baseless speculation. Then you berate others for calling out your speculation? Why?
    so what facts can you provide this morning or are you just going to continue with the same parroting as you liberal Ideologue friend. provide some thing we can discuss. We are not in a court of law. politics is all about public perception and the majority even before her appearance perceives there is a cover up. by pleading the 5th she just made it worse and comfirmed there is one

  10. #450
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    so what facts can you provide this morning or are you just going to continue with the same parroting as you liberal Ideologue friend. provide some thing we can discuss. We are not in a court of law. politics is all about public perception and the majority even before her appearance perceives there is a cover up. by pleading the 5th she just made it worse and comfirmed there is one
    So you think pleading the 5th makes her more likely to be guilty?
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  11. #451
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    by pleading the 5th she just made it worse and comfirmed there is one
    She didn't *confirm* anything. Frankly I could be hauled before Issa and it would probably be in my best interest to plead the 5th as well. Because if you happen to slip up in the least, he will try and get charges brought against you (even if they wouldn't hold) solely on the basis of politics. That fucker is slime at its ripest.

    I don't know why you have this mentality that we all need to be contributors of meaningful factual discussion when you make thread after thread and reply after reply founded in speculation. Seems a bit hypocritical, no?
    Last edited by Rukentuts; 2013-05-24 at 03:31 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  12. #452
    I'm curious if popular opinion always proves someone is right, or is that only when Vyxn is trying to justify his nonsense.

    I mean this isn't the first time he's done this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  13. #453
    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    I'm going to second this. How can you call others out for baseless defenses with no facts, when you yourself have made claim after claim with no factual evidence to back it up? Your best and only defense of your wild speculations is that others agree with you. When called out for basically accusing Obama of orchestrating this whole thing, you play the victim, claiming you were "only speculating". When the obvious contradictions of Obama's orchestrations of this entire thing, not long after followed by accusations of Obama's gross incompetence in this whole affair for not managing things better, you have no real reply.

    Every single one of your arguments has been thoroughly dismantled as nothing more than wild claims without any supporting facts. As soon as you can provide something more than a "lots of people agree with me" we'll have a discussion. But there's really nothing more to discuss other than your unwillingness to see that your argument's foundation is made of sand.
    because i never tired to pass my speculation that Obama should shoulder some responsibility for what went on caused by his Chicago tactics as a fact. as for you. you tried to pass numerous falsehoods off as facts and i corrected all of them and now you have a vendetta because of me doing so
    Sorry my intention was not to make you look like a fool it is just the consequences of proving someone is misinformed

  14. #454
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    because i never tired to pass my speculation
    You've been doing this all thread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    caused by his Chicago tactics as a fact. as for you.
    Speaking of partisan bullshit...
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    it is just the consequences of proving someone is misinformed
    So misinformed = Not subscribing to speculation?
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  15. #455
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    because i never tired to pass my speculation that Obama should shoulder some responsibility for what went on caused by his Chicago tactics as a fact. as for you.
    Kaleredar is right this is exactly what you're doing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaleredar View Post

    You: "he might be guilty"

    Everyone else: "there's no evidence to show he's guilty"

    You: "BUT HE MIGHT BE GUILTY!"

    Everyone else: "You can't call him guilty without any evidence"

    You: "WHOA WHOA WHOA HEY, I NEVER said he was guilty....




    ...But he might be guilty..."
    Quote Originally Posted by Nixx View Post
    Everyone is pro-US. They just don't know it yet.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fyre View Post
    Internet lives in the sky, don't need no cables for that.
    A nice list of logical fallacies. In picture form!

  16. #456
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    Kaleredar is right this is exactly what you're doing.
    Yeah, that pretty much describes it to a T.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  17. #457
    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    so what facts can you provide this morning or are you just going to continue with the same parroting as you liberal Ideologue friend. provide some thing we can discuss. We are not in a court of law. politics is all about public perception and the majority even before her appearance perceives there is a cover up. by pleading the 5th she just made it worse and comfirmed there is one
    If you want a meaningful discussion of facts, you should probably provide some first.

    They should also be facts other than "I'm allowed to think what I want about the president and speculate as to his guilt," and "lots of Americans agree with me!"
    Quote Originally Posted by supertony51 View Post
    I'm probably the nicest person on this whole damned forum, and you can make a sig from that.
    Quote Originally Posted by TZK203 View Post
    Just have a sig that says "I'm Batman."

  18. #458
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    I'm curious if popular opinion always proves someone is right, or is that only when Vyxn is trying to justify his nonsense.

    I mean this isn't the first time he's done this.
    i have provided more facts and corrected more falsehoods that you will continue to ignore
    Its not my opinion but proven with facts and case study you cant make an opening statement and then plead the 5th. its not my opinion but proven with facts their wasn't a increase in IRS applications in the year the decided to do the illegal targeting. Its not my opinion but proven with facts it was only the conservative groups that was targeted. Its not my opinion but proven with facts it is illegal to do so under that hatch act. and its not my opinion but have proven with facts that Steven Miller has admitted the targeting was partisan, so unless you can disprove any of those facts you have nothing

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-24 at 11:43 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Decklan View Post
    If you want a meaningful discussion of facts, you should probably provide some first.

    They should also be facts other than "I'm allowed to think what I want about the president and speculate as to his guilt," and "lots of Americans agree with me!"
    read above

  19. #459
    Merely a Setback Rukentuts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vyxn View Post
    Its not my opinion but proven with facts and case study you cant make an opening statement and then plead the 5th.
    Then why do the majority of constitutional lawyers say that you can invoke the 5th Amendment at any time?'

    Even in a trial, I can make testimony and invoke the 5th on cross examination, but of course then my testimony must be stricken and disregarded in its entirety.
    Quote Originally Posted by GreatOak View Post
    Hey, as a transabled, transethnic, non-binary, genderqueer, neo-communist, indoor-capable republican otherkin I am offended by your callous display of ignorance.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cybran View Post
    Both of those links don't provide any evidence. They make unsubstantiated statements

  20. #460
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    As far as how deep the Administration is involved, I am firmly "Not decided".
    Depends on what you mean by 'involved'. I don't believe that Obama sat down in 1-on-1 meetings with people at the IRS and personally instructed them to illegally and/or unethically use their political power target his ideological enemies. However, I do believe that Obama has a history of illegally and/or unethically using his political power to target his ideological enemies. I also believe that Obama is 100% comfortable with abusing his power that way, and that he deliberately hires people who have the same mindset.

    http://www.cis.org/renshon/obama-punish-our-enemies

    This was not a slip of the tongue, nor an accident, or a "poor choice of words". This is how Obama thinks. When you look at his past, his statements, his language, his campaigns, his tactics, and his behavior it is clear as a bell that Obama is totally OK with the concept of abusing political power to punish enemies and reward allies. That's a 'perk' of being a politician in his mind. It's just what you do. To NOT abuse power would be silly in his philosophy. That's what government is FOR to him ... a place you can go to have "positive rights" that tell you what government can DO to you.

    Moreover, he is not alone. Obama hires people into his administration that share his attitudes. When Obama says that he wants to use the power of government to make life harder for his political opposition he doesn't NEED to have a 'meeting' to put all his acolytes on the same page. They know that they are going to be defended and protected when they illegally and/or unethically use their political power to attack their ideological opponents. They know this because that were HIRED by people with the same attitude, who were in turn hired by the same kind of people. It's a big daisy-chain that starts at the top.

    From the lowest page to the CiC - the Federal government is infested with this attitude. And it isn't just Democrats and Liberals. Obama and his goon squads are probably the most blatant abusers of the system to date - but everyone there from stem to stern wants to work in government specifically BECAUSE it allows them to use its power to their advantage.

    That's why I think the whole system needs an enema. It's too big and too powerful. Too pervasive, and too prone to abuse. Too easy to misuse, and too difficult to turn around once it starts abusing. That's what happens when you let government get too powerful. Its time to slash it back to proper size and scope, and to castrate the ability of career politicians to abuse power by making it so government has very little power to abuse in the first place.

    The so-called testimonies of these bilge-rats in the IRS are just the perfect example of a much larger issue. They don't think they did anything wrong. They're still trying to blow this off as nothing. "No problem here. Nothing to see." Bullcrap. This is a big deal, and dozens - if not HUNDREDS - of people should be fired and go to jail for stuff like this. And I don't believe for one second that Obama didn't know exactly what was going on. But he's got plausible deniability so he'll skate away. But Eric Holder and every person in the IRS from top to bottom should be fired and replaced with an independent, non-government accounting firm that can be trusted. Because clearly government CAN'T be trusted any more. It's gotten too partisan and political.
    Last edited by The Riddler; 2013-05-24 at 03:47 PM.

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