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  1. #241
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Jailor Kassan was a former member of the Kirin Tor for example,
    Keywords here being 'was' and 'former'.
    The Kirin Tor, or what was left of them at the time, probably wasn't anywhere near Dalaran at that point. Garithos had just reclaimed the city from the scourge, and his forces were made up of the remnants of the Lordaeron army (human soldiers, not mages), as well as some dwarves and Blood Elves. Not Kirin Tor.

  2. #242
    Immortal KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Jailor Kassan was a former member of the Kirin Tor for example, after Rommath accuses the Kirin Tor of their inaction Aethas replies they are under new leadership now, these are all indicators that they are not innocent. They may not have imprisoned them there, but in the end they did nothing, to save the people whom they had been allied with over 2.800 years.
    Former. Not a current member of. Nor was acting as a representative of. The Kirin Tor weren't chilling in Dalaran and willing to forsake the Blood Elves. Why would they suddenly turn on them? It makes no sense, and there's no lore stating they were there OR were cool with Garithos' actions. Once again, Rommath's accusations are steeped in bias, as would be logically expected.

    The main difference between high and blood elves is how they chose to sate their addiction, high elves did in fact still consumed arcane energy, though their sources were pure. Dalaran is filled with magic and elves absorb it even without doing it knowingly, though the love for her children was her greatest motivation, not to mention it is hinted, since Zendarin tells her she has her personal mana source in her bed.
    Right, well then show me a passage that proves as such. I certainly don't recall this in Night of the Dragon or any other piece of lore. Once again, it's putting an assumption over what the actual lore has said. Show me the passage from something that shows this is what was happening. Because: 1.) Not all High Elves are or were in Dalaran only at any point, 2.) For probably the 6th time, we have actual lore stating why Vereesa was able to fight her addiction, and 3.) There's no lore stating that Mages can super charge one another magically in order to get rid of arcane addiction.

    The only case we have of another Mage "powering up" somebody else is Aegwynn doing both to Jaina and then to Ateish to reform it for Med'an. It was never to cure an addiction, it was to increase the power of somebody because the actual person was unable to fight properly themselves. If Mages could, why did the Shen'dralar not just magically spooge all over one another constantly and instead have to go through Immol'thar/other means.
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2013-05-23 at 12:21 PM.

  3. #243
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Former. Not a current member of. Nor was acting as a representative of. The Kirin Tor weren't chilling in Dalaran and willing to forsake the Blood Elves. Why would they suddenly turn on them? It makes no sense, and there's no lore stating they were there OR were cool with Garithos' actions. Once again, Rommath's accusations are steeped in bias, as would be logically expected.
    Yet Aethas did not for one second argued for the innocence of the Kirin tor, he argued they were under new leadership. Modera herself did not venture to Silvermoon the Kirin Tor might not have put them there but if they were absolutely innocent why wouldn't they get there themselves?

    Right, well then show me a passage that proves as such. I certainly don't recall this in Night of the Dragon or any other piece of lore. Once again, it's putting an assumption over what the actual lore has said. Show me the passage from something that shows this is what was happening. Because: 1.) Not all High Elves are or were in Dalaran only at any point, 2.) For probably the 6th time, we have actual lore stating why Vereesa was able to fight her addiction, and 3.) There's no lore stating that Mages can super charge one another magically in order to get rid of arcane addiction.

    It was never to cure an addiction, it was to increase the power of somebody because the actual person was unable to fight properly themselves. If Mages could, why did the Shen'dralar not just magically spooge all over one another constantly and instead have to go through Immol'thar/other means.
    Regarding High elves sating their addiction by artifacts we have this for example

    Amid the ruins of Tuurem are a number of vessels containing raw, magical energy. We are fortunate that the Broken who have overrun the city are ignorant to the resource in their midst, but we cannot assume they will remain so forever.

    With those vessels and their power in hand, the scattered survivors of my people can resist the lure of demonic magic. Every quel'dorei we can save from our prince's folly is one more that can help us regain our lost glory. Bring me these vessels

    http://www.wowhead.com/quest=10028

    On several occasions after the Sunwell's defilement, Kael'thas publicly asserted that his people would die unless they found a new source of magic. Technically the prince was mistaken. According to Azeroth's top priests and medics, the only high elves to perish due to magical withdrawal have been the very old, the very young, and elves who were already in poor health.

    Such a low rate of attrition might be considered an argument in favor of simply forgoing magic and suffering through the consequences. Indeed, a few high elves are said to have succeeded in taking this route through sheer willpower: they survived the process, however unpleasant. Apparently certain magical artifacts also ameliorate the symptoms of withdrawal and might, if sufficiently powerful, be able to suppress them altogether.

    This is not to say, however, that withdrawal from magic would leave the high elves unharmed. On the contrary, permanent mental or physical damage is possible.

    http://www.wowpedia.org/The_Warcraft...dia/High_Elves


    As I said it is hinted , I will look for the exact page once I am back home.

    The only case we have of another Mage "powering up" somebody else is Aegwynn doing both to Jaina and then to Ateish to reform it for Med'an.
    We also have the moonguard powering Illidan up
    Every guardian of Tirisfal, since the power of the Guardian comes from the entire council.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2013-05-23 at 02:35 PM.
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  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by tyggyr View Post
    [quoting Taran Zhu]

    ... really?

    Would these be the same Shado-Pan who've done next to nothing this entire expansion except grudgingly accept our help because they're obviously completely outmatched by these Sha remnants that we wreck without breaking a sweat?

    I'm tempted to say "bring it".

    I've yet to find this alleged beauty of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms; even my somewhat empty homeland of Mulgore seems more beautiful to me, let alone the majestic beauty of Howling Fjord - we may yet improve the Vale if we dig up something shiny.
    Then maybe the Horde should just GTFO. You find a new land which has people living there, and what do you do? That's right you dig the shit out of this place.
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  5. #245
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Then maybe the Horde should just GTFO. You find a new land which has people living there, and what do you do? That's right you dig the shit out of this place.
    Well lets be fair, the Aliiance is digging up Pandaria as well ,though not in the Vale.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Xilurm View Post
    Then maybe the Horde should just GTFO. You find a new land which has people living there, and what do you do? That's right you dig the shit out of this place.
    Orcs remind me of European colonists. They see a new land with resources they can use? Their first reaction is 'mine now'. Oh, those high elves have shiny runestones we can make altars out of! *grab* Never mind the night elves living in Ashenvale. Those are orc trees now. You say most sacred shrine of the Pandaren people, I say digsite!
    And then they are surprised everybody hates them.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 04:34 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Well lets be fair, the Aliiance is digging up Pandaria as well ,though not in the Vale.
    Exactly: not in the vale.

  7. #247
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynneiah View Post

    Exactly: not in the vale.
    Does it change they are digging up Pandaria for resources? No it does not, the only difference is Varian has more tact than Garrosh.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  8. #248
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Well lets be fair, the Aliiance is digging up Pandaria as well ,though not in the Vale.

    And enslaving pandas in Jade Forest. GO TEAM -_-

  9. #249
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absintheminded View Post
    And enslaving pandas in Jade Forest. GO TEAM -_-
    Well the Horde used Pandaran Kids as hostages and as working force.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  10. #250
    There's gotta to be some bitter resistance. It's just a rule in the genre.

  11. #251
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Well the Horde used Pandaran Kids as hostages and as working force.
    The point is that Alliance is no more or less morally sound than the Horde, it's no secret that Horde players are not Garrosh sympathizers and are not held directly accountable for his personal actions. This whole thread is moot for that reason. The Horde (that's us players) actually go in there to see what is going on, we did not dig it up. So while each faction has been morally grey this expansion, the Horde (the players, yet again I should remind you) are not responsible for the evil (Garrosh) of this expansion. That is all.

  12. #252
    The Insane Wildtree's Avatar
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    Let's face it.... Both factions fucking up their entire continent. There was no real problem until we came and our negative vibes and actions triggered all kinds of devastating events.
    I have to agree on one thing though.. The valley fails to deliver on the epic feel it supposed to have. It was a sacred zone, locked for a long time, to preserve the paradise it's supposed to be. But all in all, it just looks like an average fall landscape with nothing special. The design team dropped the ball on that quite a bit.
    "The pen is mightier than the sword.. and considerably easier to write with."

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    Does it change they are digging up Pandaria for resources? No it does not, the only difference is Varian has more tact than Garrosh.
    It does, actually. The Vale of Eternal Blossoms is a Pandaren holy site. The places the Alliance digs up aren't.

  14. #254
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynneiah View Post
    It does, actually. The Vale of Eternal Blossoms is a Pandaren holy site. The places the Alliance digs up aren't.
    They are still digging up Pandaria for resources, only because they don't dig up a holy site does not change that fact. It only shows Varian has respect for Pandaren culture, while Garrosh obviously has not.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  15. #255
    I think you are all looking at the Shado-pan in a poor light because you are incapable of wanting to understand the situation they are in. Are they spread out and barely hanging on by their fingernails when we come along and dig them out? Yes, but a lot of people seem incapable of understanding that they are stretched thin and weak because pandaria has fallen out of balance.

    They say in the questing to 90 line in 4 winds that the Mantid swarm just happened 80 years ago and they were not supposed to swarm yet. If the Mantid had behaved as they have over the last few thousands of years then the Shado-Pan could of had soldiers trained and in place for the swarm. The early invasion caught them unprepared and off guard. The Mantid also swept into the Tao Long Steppes, traditional homes for the Yuang-ti. When the Yaung-ti were forced from their native homes they decided to take Pandaren lands by force, might makes right. Now you have Shado-pan (the only Pandaren military force in pandaria) fighting on two fronts.
    Then the Alliance and Horde show up and a Sha gets released (I believe Fear was already out before aliance and horde show up) and the Celestial temples are under assault, now the Shado-Pan are fighting on three fronts.
    The Mogu come out of holes in the ground and make plays to capture an engine capable of mass producing hordes of Mogu soldiers, The Shado Pan are now fighting on 4 fronts.
    The Hozen take advantage of the instability and they become a nuisance. The Trolls show up in Kun-Lai to resurect Lei Shen and the Shado-pan really can't answer the threat and now have to go to Thunder Isle and stand in between two babies with machine guns and keep them from killing each other long enough for Lei Shen to be dealt with.

    Are the Shado-pan weak? Yes, but if the swarm had not happened early they would of been prepared and had a better showing. For thousands of years they managed to not only contain the sha and deal with the Mantid swarms/Yaung-ti but throw down the Mogu empire as well.

  16. #256
    For the shado pan, I think that Zhu's statement of 'our fighters are few in number but extremely skilled' is about right. The shado pan are highly trained and competent, but didn't have the numbers to handle all of Pandaria being thrown into chaos so suddenly.

  17. #257
    Quote Originally Posted by Combatbulter View Post
    They are still digging up Pandaria for resources, only because they don't dig up a holy site does not change that fact. It only shows Varian has respect for Pandaren culture, while Garrosh obviously has not.
    Which is exactly why the Shado-Pan wants to kick the Horde out of the shrine!
    I support the Shado-Pan on this one.
    In honor of all the kids bringing up my avatar:
    Quote Originally Posted by obdigore View Post
    Wow, for someone with a trollface avatar, you are pretty bad at this.

  18. #258
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    This is why the alliance is also so boring. Since when was the last time the alliance did something that out of faction characters questioned and considered reprehensable..
    When was the last time Alliance did something reprehensable? One name: Arthas Menethil. Alliance existed long before WoW and if it failed miserably at something then it was at containing that brat.

  19. #259
    Over 9000! Combatbulter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Melkandor View Post
    Which is exactly why the Shado-Pan wants to kick the Horde out of the shrine!
    I support the Shado-Pan on this one.
    I do as well, but saying the Alliance does not dig up Pandaria for resources is just false. The Alliance is better, because they respect Pandaren culture, but not by much. Taran Zhu knows there are different elements in the horde, he worked with the blood elves and horde heroes after all, the only beef I have is that he could have actually offered help to deal with Garrosh, since he defiled his vale and suppresses most of the horde, something as he himself says the pandaren are familiar with.
    Last edited by Combatbulter; 2013-05-23 at 04:34 PM.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Dzudzadzo View Post
    When was the last time Alliance did something reprehensable? One name: Arthas Menethil. Alliance existed long before WoW and if it failed miserably at something then it was at containing that brat.
    The Dark Iron 'imprisoned/kidnapped" Anduin to use him as a chip to get his father to legitimise their rulership of Ironforge. The entire dwarven nation almost fell into civil war and now refuse to act in fear that the other two nations will kill each other to take power. The dwarves are all kinds of colors of messed up.
    The Humans made a concentration camp for Orcs.
    The Gilneans closed their doors to the rest of the world and then got all kinds of pissy when no one came to help them out.
    The Kirin Tor leader Jaina went around tossing every blood elf in her city in prison without giving them warning to leave. Windrunner took advantage of the situation to kill as many high elves in a purge of Dalaran by taking advantage of the situation because imprisoning blood elves in her mind was far to light of a punishment. Not only did she order the death of all of them but she killed their only means of escape, the dragon hawks. Some how everyone thinks Jaina did all the killing.
    The Drainei spent all of cataclysm trying to decide wether to just fire up the rockets and leave while Velen spent his his time on his butt trying to decide which vision of the future was the one he would get off his butt for. He didn't even warn anyone about the coming Cataclysm.
    The Gnomes nuked their own city.

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