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  1. #81
    ...I <3 Taran Zhu, and nothing will change that. Besides, he and Dezco came to a resolution, anyway.

  2. #82
    Yea it's a bit hard to take the Shado Pan seriously what with Shado Pan Monastery. You spend an entire dungeon, a 5 man no less, beating them down, you even beat down their leader. Then he presumes to threaten your entire faction? Ridiculous! The way the horde (and the alliance, for that matter) acts on Pandaria it's pretty freaking clear that the natives can't stop them. The horde pretty much does as it pleases. So, yea, the threat is a bit of a lore-lol.

    Now if the August Celestials got pissed at us, that might be a different story.

  3. #83
    Immortal KrazyK923's Avatar
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    People are forgetting the only reason the Shado-Pan need our help is because they were dealing with 4 enemies on multiple different fronts all at once:

    Mantid are flooding into Krasarang, the Valley, and Townlonge Steppes.
    The Yaungol are invading Kun-Lai
    And the Sha are literally going batshit crazy all over the place.
    Mogu have used the opportunity the above three provided to attack as well.

    These things happened all around the same time. The Sha of Fear caused the Mantid to do what they are doing, and the Mantid are pushing the Yaungol out. And its because of us as the Horde and Alliance that its happening.

    It's not that the Shado-Pan are useless. It's that they're fighting quite literally all of their enemies at once. At the start of 5.3, what is really left?

    The Mantid (At least the crazy ones) are taken care of. The Yaungol are as well. The Sha are either gone/in remission (Whatever their actual deal is with dying), and I would assume it's safe to argue that the Mogu threat is largely gone after the Thunder King's defeat.
    Last edited by KrazyK923; 2013-05-22 at 07:55 AM.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Lunareste View Post
    Fuckin' plague them all.

    You guys actually think the Shado-pan could take on the FORSAKEN? lool
    You guys actually think the alliance will sit by as the forsaken establish a more permanent foothold on Pandaria ? We already killed a lich king, we'll have no problem dealing with a lich queen as well.

  5. #85
    The Lightbringer malletin's Avatar
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    Well... you did go and dredged out a big scar in their most sacred place, I think their desire to see you gtfo is justified.
    "any man shaving for a woman should relinquish ownership of his testicles aswell"

  6. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by tyggyr View Post
    [quoting Taran Zhu]

    ... really?

    Would these be the same Shado-Pan who've done next to nothing this entire expansion except grudgingly accept our help because they're obviously completely outmatched by these Sha remnants that we wreck without breaking a sweat?

    I'm tempted to say "bring it".

    I've yet to find this alleged beauty of the Vale of Eternal Blossoms; even my somewhat empty homeland of Mulgore seems more beautiful to me, let alone the majestic beauty of Howling Fjord - we may yet improve the Vale if we dig up something shiny.
    Lol, yeah, when Taran Zhu stars threatening us with the wrath of the Shado-Pan, who near as I can tell have been mostly useless the whole xpac, I was rather sad I couldn't just respond "You are welcome to try". I mean, I get it, he's pissed and I understand that. But seriously threatening us with purging by the Shado-Pan is like me walking up to a US Army base carrying a sledgehammer, and telling the guards the base needs to clear out, or else.

  7. #87
    Immortal KrazyK923's Avatar
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    I also should mention that the Shado-Pan battling against the Horde/Rebellion is basically a loss to only the Horde/Rebellion. Its not like the Horde will be able to take over Pandaria without the Shado-Pan, the Alliance is literally right there and won't have any of that shit. Or, they would, more likely, just hit Orgrimmar when Garrosh or Vol'jin or whomever is leading the appropriate faction is fighting against Taran Zhu. I'm sure the Celestials would probably also back the Shado-Pan over the Horde.

  8. #88
    +1 for Taran Zhu
    purge this filth from Pandaria.
    my PSN ID - Kobold_Rider

  9. #89
    Elemental Lord Combatbulter's Avatar
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    I understand why Tharan Zhu is angry, and why he wants the horde gone, though Dezco shoukd take his son back from golden lotus before he leaves.
    He who sees his own doom can better avoid its path. He who sees the doom of others can deliver it.

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    And yet both those account are just 'oh look, the alliance attacks the horde, thats ok, there alliance and so its justified in anything they do'. Seriously, it doesn't even bleep on the radar.

    But the horde, oh the goblins dig a dirt hole in the valley of eternal blossoms and suddenly its 'YOU ARE TRAITORS, YOU WILL BE BANISHED' despite, as you say, it was us they helped you god dam pandas fight against your arch enemy.

    Trassk, you have to be delusional or you are spending too much time looking at the bad alliance players; you're generalizing big time. How many horde fans cry bloody murder when the Alliance steps outside their "good guy" bounds? Taurajo anyone?


    When the alliance does something bad, it is not swept under the rug. It is held against the playerbase and used as an excuse for the bombing of a city. Swept under the rug, really? Yeah sure, remember Taurajo.


    Sure it may be annoying that the horde is literally expected to do bad shit now, but that's the way Blizzard wants to portray the majority of the Horde while Garrosh is leading it. While the horde is expected to do evil shit at every turn, the alliance is expected to do good shit at every turn, to the point of strategical idiocy just to retain 'good guy alliance man' status.


    The alliance has every right to feel as shitty about it as the horde does; you two have the same thing going on, just on the other side of the spectrum from each other. Alliance = good guy forever, horde = bad guy forever now. Neither are the slightest bit grey, and those that are are marked for elimination and become raid bosses.

    Thanks for the awesome sig, Lady Amuno.

  11. #91
    Until you actually take steps to remove Garrosh from power, you are still considered part of the Horde and you share responsibility for its excesses. Taran Zhu is well within his rights to be pissed off as hell.

    That said, the Shado-Pan in general and him in particular seem to have a somewhat inflated sense of their own ability. Not too surprising I suppose; they have been the premier fighting force on Pandaria for ten thousand years after all. But he's dreaming if he thinks his ninjas can take on either Horde or Alliance on their own. Yes, they've been stretched to the breaking point what with the Sha, Youngol, Mantis and Mogu all rising up at the same time. Well guess what? All of those get their shit wrecked and pounded straight back down again by, you guessed it, us. No to mention that the one time we confront the Shado-Pan directly (in the Monastery) they summarily get their asses kicked up one side and down the other.

    The only way Taran Shu is going to purge the Vale of the Horde is by getting the Alliance to help out. Which I'm sure we'd be simply delighted to do, so maybe not quite as empty a threat as it seems. Huh.

    As for the scene on the Isle of Thunder with Jaina and Lor'themar, I absolutely detested that. Taran Zhu flat out admits he knows nothing about them, the reasons for their enmity, or their history. He hasn't bothered to learn a single goddamned thing, but he still deigns to condescendingly tell them how much better he knows how to solve things. It's fucking insulting on about three different levels, and I wish it would have ended something like this:

    *Jaina and Lor'themar look at Taran Zhu, then at each other.*
    Both: SHUT UP!
    *Taran Zhu takes twin fireballs to the face*
    Lor'themar: What a douche.
    Jaina: Yeah, no kidding.
    Lor'themar: How about we deal with the Mogu first, then we'll see about the rest?
    Jaina: Deal.

  12. #92
    On the weakness of the Shado-Pan, and their need to have adventurers help them, I have a theory. Consider the following. The Shado-Pan was able to, for the most part, hold the enemies of the Pandaren at bay for thousands of years. Their forces, while stretched thin, were able to hold the wall and keep their foes at bay. This shows individual skill on a scale that would be unfathomable to a regular solider of the Horde or Alliance. This is where their power lies, in either large scale defensive combat, acting as guardians upon their wall, or in small scale combat, where they can face their opponents man to man. This second style of combat can be seen during the dailies, wherein you are assisted by their warriors. Now granted their AI is faulty, but imagine how powerful of a warrior they could be if controlled by someone that's not a total idiot. Their skills inflict solid amounts of damage or healing, and they never seem to need to stop to rest. This shows that their regular forces are more than capable in combat.

    As to the comments regarding their shortcomings in the events of the expansion I pose this thought. They have, up until very recently (read a few days before your arrival in the Kun Lai Summit) actually held off their foes with little trouble. Now, lets say that the entire 85-90 leveling period takes 5 days, one day a level, our forces would have been on Pandaria in some form for over a week, as we were responding to forces already arriving and getting entrenched. This means that in the three days between Taran Zu "greeting" us in the Jade Forest and the events in Kun Lai, he actually began to withdraw his forces from around Pandaria into the monastery at the behest of the Sha manipulating him. So it stands to reason that the invading forces would be able to overcome the now even more thinly stretched Shado-Pan forces, allowing them to bypass the wall and attack Kun Lai. This comes to a head when you are assisting them holding the gate because the reinforcements they asked for have never arrived. The Shado-Pan aren't week and haven't been failing because of lack of skill or martial prowess, they are losing from poor troop deployment, something that loses even modern wars. With no forces to redeploy and no supplies to continue holding the line they were forced to take on further back defenses and call upon adventurers, who are powerful champions in their own right, to complete their objectives.

    My final point as to why the Shado-Pan would be able to purge the shrine is simple. How many military NPCs are actually in the shrine? The place is populated, but mostly by noncombatants. I'd go so far as to say, that even if the number of Shado-Pan we encounter in the game are the accurate total of them in the world, and the number of NPCs located at the shrine represents a force five times larger than actually present, the Shado-Pan might actually outnumber the Horde forces in the Shrine. Now I know there are vastly more Horde forces on Pandaria, so the purge wouldn't be any sort of perminante event, but it's more than possible for the Shado-Pan to purge any NPCs currently located inside the Shrine. The Horde's retaliation would be massive and effective, the full brunt of the Dominance Offensive would easily overwhealm the Shado-Pan, but in the short term they could easily kill the paltry defenses in the Shrine.

    Anyway, that's my two cents on the matter.
    Leadfoot352

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Day Dreamer View Post
    You guys actually think the alliance will sit by as the forsaken establish a more permanent foothold on Pandaria ? We already killed a lich king, we'll have no problem dealing with a lich queen as well.
    Lich King was an idiot.

  14. #94
    Honestly OP are you really surprised by this? it's always this way developers just do things to appease alliance so they don't cry, even the title for 5.3 alliance get "The Hordebreaker"
    Last edited by Ghaleon; 2013-05-22 at 10:35 AM.

  15. #95
    The Insane Trassk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by malletin View Post
    Well... you did go and dredged out a big scar in their most sacred place, I think their desire to see you gtfo is justified.
    Ah, No no, WE didn't. Goblins forced by garrosh did this, the same garrosh we're not fighting against.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-22 at 11:48 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Garradorr View Post
    Honestly OP are you really surprised by this? it's always this way developers just do things to appease alliance so they don't cry, even the title for 5.3 alliance get "The Hordebreaker"
    and even that wasn't good enough, with such posts as this following right after it.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...line-is-a-joke

    If blizzard does favor the horde more, is it any wonder, nothing they do is good enough for the alliance.

  16. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Leadfoot352 View Post
    This second style of combat can be seen during the dailies, wherein you are assisted by their warriors. Now granted their AI is faulty, but imagine how powerful of a warrior they could be if controlled by someone that's not a total idiot.
    Err, most of them are pretty terrible. By and large, their attacks and spells deal less damage than the auto attacks of a prot warrior before he has gained any vengeance, and most of their abilities kinda suck. Just as an example, no matter how good the controller was, the hunter's trap isn't gonna suck any less, my warrior does more DPS by spamming THROW and letting it proc Elemental Force! The mage is the only one of the lot whose abilities seemed to be genuinely effective as a whole....

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Ah, No no, WE didn't. Goblins forced by garrosh did this, the same garrosh we're not fighting against.
    Please expalin how Taran Zhu, who literally hasn't even heard about the Horde until several months ago, is supposed to tell the difference. In fact, once he is explained how Garrosh no longer equates to the rest of the Horde, he backs off and gives you 'until season's end' to get your shit sorted.

  18. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Ah, No no, WE didn't. Goblins forced by garrosh did this, the same garrosh we're not fighting against.
    As of that point, however, you're still part of HIS Horde in a city that is occupied by HIS forces. It's not a question of whether you the player is affiliated with Garrosh or not, but everyone within that city is still part of Garrosh's Horde as of that conversation, simply by merit of being there.
    "Reason is not automatic. Those who deny it cannot be conquered by it." - Ayn Rand

  19. #99
    when he said that i thought yea right not with me around you teddy bear
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  20. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    Ah, No no, WE didn't. Goblins forced by garrosh did this, the same garrosh we're not fighting against.
    Garrosh runs the Horde. You haven't rebelled yet, you are still part of said Horde. Ergo, no matter how much you don't like him, you are still tarnished by the crimes committed on his orders.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    and even that wasn't good enough, with such posts as this following right after it.

    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...line-is-a-joke

    If blizzard does favor the horde more, is it any wonder, nothing they do is good enough for the alliance.
    Have you even looked at the Alliance side of the 5.3 quests? We get to run around the Barrens a bit with a cat. That's it. You're delusional if you think Alliance complaints about getting shafted story-wise are just 'Alliance crying'.

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