"I would've already ordered the Shado-Pan to purge this entire shrine. "

[RecliningPanda]

you know what I am surprised about.

I have yet to hear any alliance whine about Garrosh tearing a huge hole in their side of the vale. its like every time they walk out to the flight master its a giant ha ha he did all this in front of you and you did not do anything to stop it.

and that bring up another point the hole is nearer the alliance temple, why didn't they see garrosh digging and either stop it, or go dob us in to the golden lotus.

[KrazyK923]

It was actually Varian who put forward the idea, Terenas gave the deciding vote to put the Orcs in internment camps despite Genn Greymane, Anasterian Sunstrider and Daelin Proudmore's protests.

Was he? Hm, I missed that. Well, Terenas is still credited with being the deciding vote. Plus he was the King of Lordaeron, I'm sure that had weight too.

[Hughes]

Banishing them was a mistake on the blood elves part, sure, but given how everything played out (kael'thas, outland) Lor'themar may have been able to admit that and welcome them back eventually. But by defecting to the alliance that betrayed the elves they ruined any hope of reunification. They have shown no loyalty to their homeland or their people, why would the blood elves ever trust them?

Because the Blood elves went to the horde?

---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 02:20 AM ----------

you know what I am surprised about.

I have yet to hear any alliance whine about Garrosh tearing a huge hole in their side of the vale. its like every time they walk out to the flight master its a giant ha ha he did all this in front of you and you did not do anything to stop it.

and that bring up another point the hole is nearer the alliance temple, why didn't they see garrosh digging and either stop it, or go dob us in to the golden lotus.

To the first point, I think Alliance gave up/stop caring.

Second; bad story telling.

[KrazyK923]

If I had to guess, it would be because the Horde wouldn't have a counter to the Alliance stopping them do something. Since basically all of MoP, which supposedly had Alliance "fist-pump" moments, it actually has just been the Alliance and Horde getting separate, but largely equal, developments on each side that basically levels it out.

[Matt0193]

Was he? Hm, I missed that. Well, Terenas is still credited with being the deciding vote. Plus he was the King of Lordaeron, I'm sure that had weight too.

I can't find the quote on wowpedia, but I'm certain it was Varian who first mentions it. Whether he is prompted by someone else to do so, I can't remember.

[KrazyK923]

I can't find the quote on wowpedia, but I'm certain it was Varian who first mentions it. Whether he is prompted by someone else to do so, I can't remember.

Nifty, I didn't know this. Cool.

[Ehrenpanzer]

I also think people underestimate the hatred the High Elves have regarding the Blood Elves.

People need to remember the entirety of their history and why the High Elves ultimately became a race in the first place. It was because the Night Elves believed that use of Arcane magic would inevitably lead to corruption and Demonic magic usage. The High Elves willingly left their own people rather than stop to travel across the sea and start over. They sacrificed literally everything to prove that the universal hatred of Arcane magic by the Night Elves was backward.

So when the Blood Elves, out of their addiction necessity, turn to demons, it's almost quite literally sacrilege. It was proving the Night Elves right all along. It was proving that you can't use Arcane magic without inevitably turning to Demon magic. It was probably the biggest spit in the face to the very foundation of High Elven customs.

All of which totally occurred without the Scourge leveling their homelands, being imprisoned by the Alliance and threatened with death...and needed to ally with Vashj and Illidan to simply survive...

---------- Post added 2013-05-23 at 03:49 AM ----------

You know very well that Dalaran was used by the Horde as a gateway to attack Darnassus. More than enough reasons to kick the violators out of the city. And why shouldn't Admiral Rogers roflstomp the Horde? The brought it upon themselves by endangering the crown prince of Stormwind, attacking a peaceful pandaren village and capturing their children as hostages.


The hole is just the last straw breaking the camel's back. The Horde - and especially the Orcs - has already proven itself to be capable only of violence and destruction, lacking all noble traits and ambitions. No one would tolerate such a lot of brutes for too long for any other reasons than absolute necessity.

In short... the Horde is hated because it causes only misery in its wake, no matter what the goals are. While the Alliance generally doesn't leave behind only ruined shitholes polluted by toxic waste and demonic magic.

He brought it on himself...don't want to be captured? don't waltz around with a big ass flag saying "Look at me, Im the Prince of Stormwind...tralalala../skip through a hostile land" Seriously, what kind of delinquent father lets a pre-teen child go off to the middle of an all out warzone...

[Dreknar20]

He brought it on himself...don't want to be captured? don't waltz around with a big ass flag saying "Look at me, Im the Prince of Stormwind...tralalala../skip through a hostile land" Seriously, what kind of delinquent father lets a pre-teen child go off to the middle of an all out warzone...

To be fair Anduin ran off across Pandraria on his own motivation. He even mind controlled I think the dwarf to avoid being returned to Stormwind

But yeah, Anduin is the crown prince. You have to be pretty incompetant to not want to kill or capture him

[KrazyK923]

All of which totally occurred without the Scourge leveling their homelands, being imprisoned by the Alliance and threatened with death...and needed to ally with Vashj and Illidan to simply survive...

Once again I don't disagree with their need to do what they did. It was either make their choice or die.

That doesn't mean the High Elves don't have their points either. I was explaining what probably (Since they've never laid out specifically in the lore) they are thinking.

[Talen]

The alliance fired on the goblin ships as they where sailing and then tried to kill the survivors on the island they washed up on.

The claim was racism. Not military necessity.

They also sent spies into sin'dorei terrotory and the kaldorei where activly fighting against them before they joined the horde.

No, they weren't. They were there. But the scouts don't appear to have ever initiated any combat or aggression.

"No. There is lore where we have racist individuals. But the Alliance, as a faction, is not racist."

But they've been ass-holes to people when they could have helped them out.

You are, I hope, aware that none of your examples is actually true?

It's also hilarious how the Silver Covenant loathe the blood elves for consuming fel energies out of necessity and then...run around as Jaina's lapdogs even when it becomes pretty obvious that she is unstable and tainted by volatile magical energy. The high elves are just lapdogs to humans at this point in the story.

The Purge of Dalaran was arguably necessary. The Sunreavers actions had drawn the city into the war. they'd already been "cleansed" of Garrosh/Horde sympathisers by Aethas and many of them went to prison peacefully after Aethas rejected the option of simply leaving. As for the rest - Jainas calls it insurrrection and the Alliance are told that those still outside and free are those who fought back.

So, apart from Jaina being a little angry at seeing the Sunreavers lead an insurrection after forcing Dalaran into the war and angry at being forced to take some action since Aethas refused to leave...how is she unstable due to magic?

EJL

[Deamon002]

Banishing them was a mistake on the blood elves part, sure, but given how everything played out (kael'thas, outland) Lor'themar may have been able to admit that and welcome them back eventually. But by defecting to the alliance that betrayed the elves they ruined any hope of reunification. They have shown no loyalty to their homeland or their people, why would the blood elves ever trust them?

I'm sorry, what? The Blood Elves kick the High Elves, their own kin, out into the Plaguelands to die. They do this for no reason other than the fact that they refused to feed off demons. How is it the High Elves that have shown no loyalty to their people?

[Combatbutler]

Right, so its more likely to listen to a biased player within the world. Yeah, that makes much more sense. I'm still looking for the quote you're referring to that is so damning. Just reread Shadows of the Sun, and I have been playing the Frozen Throne campaign over again out of boredom. I don't see it. So please enlighten me.

Jailor Kassan was a former member of the Kirin Tor for example, after Rommath accuses the Kirin Tor of their inaction Aethas replies they are under new leadership now, these are all indicators that they are not innocent. They may not have imprisoned them there, but in the end they did nothing, to save the people whom they had been allied with over 2.800 years.

[PSG32095]

This is why the alliance is also so boring. Since when was the last time the alliance did something that out of faction characters questioned and considered reprehensable. Why is it always on the hordes head they get this? If the alliance did something so rotten a neutral faction considered throwing them out of an organization, I'd actually considered that depth, and show the alliance isn't always the happy go lucky goody good guys.

um...the whole lets lot all these innocent citizens of Dalaran in jail?

[Vokal]

[quoting Taran Zhu]

... really?

Yeah right...

The horde outnumber the shado-pan by...a lot.

There is a reason they call it the....horde?

"Purge" my ass :P

And this coming from an alliance player.

[Well]

Rofl. Dwarves? Are you serious? WoW's original strip miners? You're funny. None of the races you mentioned barring the Tauren and NE are particularly nature-oriented, including the draenei. Nor are the Pandaren.

Rofl. Dwarves are very nature-oriented. Nature-oriented does not mean a tree-hugger like nelves and tauren (who I absolutely adore): it means that you respect nature and build with it. Dwarves, Draenei (being alien and respecting Azeroth's nature) & OF COURSE Pandaren (you even deny their own right to their land, which they've kept such beautiful for thousands of years only to be destroyed by orcs & humans; read the end of the Jade Forest questline) are more than ok to enter and live within the Vale. The other races are not.

[gcsmith]

um...the whole lets lot all these innocent citizens of Dalaran in jail?

They were not innocent. It was impossible for the horde to move through Dalaran without one of them seeing something. Yet none of them reported to the Council... Innocent my ass.

[Well]

As has been pointed out here quite accurately, Taran-Zhu and his precious Shado-Pan aren't the most capable fighters. Even he admits they are few in number, and they seem pretty incapable of doing the one thing they were trained to do (kill sha) without help. Who will purge us Horde from the Vale? Certainly not the Shado-pan. The Alliance? Unlikely, but you can try. My rifle and I always welcome flagged Alliance fanboys.

buahahaha. What makes you think that a disoriented horde, with no leadership will be able to stand against an open attack from a co-ordinated Alliance (see the blood in the snow scenario).

We are in a much better spot: Both in resources and strategy. You can eat your own bones

[Combatbutler]

Because the lore says it does? Just because you don't agree with something in the lore doesn't mean it didn't happen. I refuse to even consider your argument unless you can provide even 1 ounce of proof that Vereesa was being fed magic from Rhonin. Or, maybe you could start by proving that a single Mage can somehow abate the addiction of a giganto-fucking magic well. Because there isn't lore supporting this either.

The main difference between high and blood elves is how they chose to sate their addiction, high elves did in fact still consumed arcane energy, though their sources were pure. Dalaran is filled with magic and elves absorb it even without doing it knowingly, though the love for her children was her greatest motivation, not to mention it is hinted, since Zendarin tells her she has her personal mana source in her bed.

[Lynneiah]

Jailor Kassan was a former member of the Kirin Tor for example,

Keywords here being 'was' and 'former'.
The Kirin Tor, or what was left of them at the time, probably wasn't anywhere near Dalaran at that point. Garithos had just reclaimed the city from the scourge, and his forces were made up of the remnants of the Lordaeron army (human soldiers, not mages), as well as some dwarves and Blood Elves. Not Kirin Tor.

[KrazyK923]

Jailor Kassan was a former member of the Kirin Tor for example, after Rommath accuses the Kirin Tor of their inaction Aethas replies they are under new leadership now, these are all indicators that they are not innocent. They may not have imprisoned them there, but in the end they did nothing, to save the people whom they had been allied with over 2.800 years.

Former. Not a current member of. Nor was acting as a representative of. The Kirin Tor weren't chilling in Dalaran and willing to forsake the Blood Elves. Why would they suddenly turn on them? It makes no sense, and there's no lore stating they were there OR were cool with Garithos' actions. Once again, Rommath's accusations are steeped in bias, as would be logically expected.

The main difference between high and blood elves is how they chose to sate their addiction, high elves did in fact still consumed arcane energy, though their sources were pure. Dalaran is filled with magic and elves absorb it even without doing it knowingly, though the love for her children was her greatest motivation, not to mention it is hinted, since Zendarin tells her she has her personal mana source in her bed.

Right, well then show me a passage that proves as such. I certainly don't recall this in Night of the Dragon or any other piece of lore. Once again, it's putting an assumption over what the actual lore has said. Show me the passage from something that shows this is what was happening. Because: 1.) Not all High Elves are or were in Dalaran only at any point, 2.) For probably the 6th time, we have actual lore stating why Vereesa was able to fight her addiction, and 3.) There's no lore stating that Mages can super charge one another magically in order to get rid of arcane addiction.

The only case we have of another Mage "powering up" somebody else is Aegwynn doing both to Jaina and then to Ateish to reform it for Med'an. It was never to cure an addiction, it was to increase the power of somebody because the actual person was unable to fight properly themselves. If Mages could, why did the Shen'dralar not just magically spooge all over one another constantly and instead have to go through Immol'thar/other means.