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  1. #41
    While we couldn't simply jump in and do a better job overall, we did see this one coming a mile off.
    Blizzard quite correctly ignore a lot of so-called feedback, but this one was simply a mess waiting to happen.
    How they respond to it now will be interesting.

  2. #42
    So it's still a completely random chance whether or not you'll have 0 healers or 7. Nothings changed.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by mistahwilshire View Post
    So it's still a completely random chance whether or not you'll have 0 healers or 7. Nothings changed.

    groups are going to be more balanced at the end. doing ab with 7 healers ain't fun if the enemy got 3 healers. so in the end it will be 0-0 or 3-3 or 7-7 and not 0-7 like it can be now.
    Last edited by loki504; 2013-05-22 at 11:16 AM.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Ylera View Post
    maybe give them 5 mins to balance and iron out the system's flaws before QQing? it's day 1 of a new patch ffs.
    How about the fact Ghostcrawler replied to people straight up saying this would happen...The community gave him feedback, he ignored it and so yeah we have ever right to "QQ"...Look below I copy/pasted the tweets for you sunshine...

    Have you taken the fact that people will just Role check as DPS then SWITCH specs ONCE in BG??
    To what end? To have a bad team with no healers? (Source)
    I think he's saying they'll queue as DPS then switch to a healing spec to have more than the other team.
    Does that actually give you a stronger team? (Source)

    "To facilitate jerks, hybrids will now need to click 'healer' to steal BG queues" Am I reading that right? Force spec swap!
    Why would someone want a short BG queue just to get on a weakened team that loses their match? (Source)
    In LFR, it's easier to "fake heal" and still beat the bosses. But in a BG, you'll feel it. (Source)

  5. #45
    Looks like a lot of gin for GC these days.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by oblongship View Post
    How about the fact Ghostcrawler replied to people straight up saying this would happen...The community gave him feedback, he ignored it and so yeah we have ever right to "QQ"...Look below I copy/pasted the tweets for you sunshine...

    Have you taken the fact that people will just Role check as DPS then SWITCH specs ONCE in BG??
    To what end? To have a bad team with no healers? (Source)
    I think he's saying they'll queue as DPS then switch to a healing spec to have more than the other team.
    Does that actually give you a stronger team? (Source)

    "To facilitate jerks, hybrids will now need to click 'healer' to steal BG queues" Am I reading that right? Force spec swap!
    Why would someone want a short BG queue just to get on a weakened team that loses their match? (Source)
    In LFR, it's easier to "fake heal" and still beat the bosses. But in a BG, you'll feel it. (Source)
    sign.......... he didn't ignore nobody. but blizzard doesn't want to force stuff. and i agree on that. start the rolecheck with a forched spec is someting they didn't want to. they might need to because people can't behave online. and in the end its still better then the old system.

  7. #47
    The only solution I can think of is checking if your current role fits your selected role after the BG began (or maybe two minutes after you joined the BG, as you might very well also be put in a active BG).
    If it doesn't fit, you get automatically kicked and get a deserter debuff.

    At first this might hurt your team, but most people learn from their mistakes and in a week selecting the wrong role probably is no issue anymore.

  8. #48
    Stood in the Fire unrealeck's Avatar
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    So funny. I saw this coming a mile away. It's like WHAT WERE YOU THINKING BLIZZARD?
    But really though, why couldn't you see this coming?

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ylera View Post
    maybe give them 5 mins to balance and iron out the system's flaws before QQing? it's day 1 of a new patch ffs.
    Shouldn't that be done before it goes live though?

    Bugs and issues happen, but Blizzard is a multi-national billion dollar industry leading company, and none of their employees raised this as a concern? The Public Test Realm is there to figure these issues out, and looking on forums around the internet (Including their own) this issue was raised during the PTR.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Hyve View Post
    Shouldn't that be done before it goes live though?

    Bugs and issues happen, but Blizzard is a multi-national billion dollar industry leading company, and none of their employees raised this as a concern? The Public Test Realm is there to figure these issues out, and looking on forums around the internet (Including their own) this issue was raised during the PTR.
    That isn't even the biggest slap in the face. The fact that Ghostcrawler responded to tweets about this exact issue dismissing it, only to have it happen exactly how we said it would is the biggest middle finger to the community you could get.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblongship View Post
    That isn't even the biggest slap in the face. The fact that Ghostcrawler responded to tweets about this exact issue dismissing it, only to have it happen exactly how we said it would is the biggest middle finger to the community you could get.
    It certainly is another addition to the fact that Blizzard are getting a little sloppy with the small things. The change to the Warsong Gulch Graveyard is another example that springs to mind, that didn't solve a thing, but only made it stupidly annoying to get back to your flag room to help your own team...

  12. #52
    I like how they added a tank queue when tanks are actually detrimental to the team
    http://www.wowarmory.com/character-s...cn=Revolutions


    BATTLEMASTER (After 3.3.5 nerf) REVOLUTIONS REPORTING IN.
    Wielder of The Scepter of Shifting Sands, Hand of Ragnaros, and Shadowmourne. Bringer of 66 minute kings.

  13. #53
    The new role system isn't the problem. On paper it's a brilliant way of balancing teams. It's greedy self entitled players that are abusing the system in an attempt to purposefully unbalance teams, or get faster queue times, which we now know doesn't happen.
    WoW PvP; Where DPS are healers, tanks are DPS, and healers are tanks!

    RETH RETH RETH!

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Dundebuns View Post
    The new role system isn't the problem. On paper it's a brilliant way of balancing teams. It's greedy self entitled players that are abusing the system in an attempt to purposefully unbalance teams, or get faster queue times, which we now know doesn't happen.
    You are right, it is the players. The same players we warned GC directly about and he responded dismissing it as if it would never happen.

  15. #55
    I didn't think there was ever a problem with 'balance'....yeah, sometimes you were outhealed, sometimes you were outgunned and sometimes you beat the odds. The randomness of it is part of the fun IMO.

    KISS principle isn't being applied.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by oblongship View Post

    "To facilitate jerks, hybrids will now need to click 'healer' to steal BG queues" Am I reading that right? Force spec swap!
    Why would someone want a short BG queue just to get on a weakened team that loses their match? (Source)
    In LFR, it's easier to "fake heal" and still beat the bosses. But in a BG, you'll feel it. (Source)

    Since I don't BG I have to ask, Is it not true to have 6 healers on a team is bad for the team? Isn't his point still valid ? What's the point of joining a a BG and then switching specs if it increases the chances that BG team will fail ?

    Isn't this something that players will eventually need to figure out for themselves ? Though I am a big fan of locking people into Specs that they qued for. The number of times we honestly needed someone to switch to Tank or DPS has virtually nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by oblongship View Post
    You are right, it is the players. The same players we warned GC directly about and he responded dismissing it as if it would never happen.
    I think you guys have an axe to grind with GC. Whenever folks don't like an answer, it's always Blizzard dismissing or ignoring them.
    Last edited by Mad_Murdock; 2013-05-22 at 03:00 PM.

  17. #57
    As I expected. They should disable spec swap once in queue, or at the very least not allow spec swap from healer to non healer and vice versa.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-22 at 09:58 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    Since I don't BG I have to ask, Is it not true to have 6 healers on a team is bad for the team? Isn't his point still valid ? What's the point of joining a a BG and then switching specs if it increases the chances that BG team will fail ?

    Isn't this something that players will eventually need to figure out for themselves ?
    In theory it's true, but healers have gotten way too effective these last couple expansions. Pretty much the only way a team can counter one that has too many healers (I'm talking like 7 out of 10) is to have zero healers and just steamroll. They're fools for thinking this wouldn't be an issue, and thinking that having more healers isn't an advantage when it clearly is.
    Last edited by Itisamuh; 2013-05-22 at 03:00 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    Since I don't BG I have to ask, Is it not true to have 6 healers on a team is bad for the team? Isn't his point still valid ? What's the point of joining a a BG and then switching specs if it increases the chances that BG team will fail ?

    Isn't this something that players will eventually need to figure out for themselves ? Though I am a big fan of locking people into Specs that they qued for. The number of times we honestly needed someone to switch to Tank or DPS has virtually nothing.



    I think you guys have an axe to grind with GC. Whenever folks don't like an answer, it's always Blizzard dismissing or ignoring them.
    We have several axes to grind with GC but we are talking abotu a problem we brought to him and he dismissed it directly and then the problem we stated happened.

    If you don't BG I don't know how much you should weigh in on this, yeah it is bad for a team to have 6 healers but do you think players that swap specs care?

    The answer is no, they don't think ahead to even check the specs of people on their team they just go "well I want faster queues, so I will queue as tank and swap to heals"

    Let's not even start on the idiots who are fully geared and don't need honor that will make teams lose on purpose because they just want to fight in the road or afk at a base for the heck of it...

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Mad_Murdock View Post
    Since I don't BG I have to ask, Is it not true to have 6 healers on a team is bad for the team? Isn't his point still valid ? What's the point of joining a a BG and then switching specs if it increases the chances that BG team will fail ?

    Isn't this something that players will eventually need to figure out for themselves ? Though I am a big fan of locking people into Specs that they qued for. The number of times we honestly needed someone to switch to Tank or DPS has virtually nothing.
    The system tries to match the number of healers on the teams. So if Alliance gets 3 healers, so does the horde. If Alliance gets 0 healers, so does the horde. If you queue as healer, and then switch to dps, the other team has a healer more. This might be a good thing for your team (especially if they already have 6/10 healers), or it might be bad thing (for example if they only have 1/10 healers).
    So right now the system is no improvement at all, the number of (actual) healers on both teams is random and not balanced.

    Locking specs is always a bad idea if it is connected with queue times. If I am queued as healer I still want to do dailies or farming rares while I am waiting for my invite, and so I have to go second spec. Unlike lfg/lfr queues BG queues are fairly quick, but yet I also sometimes wait several minutes for my invite, and the two minute preparation time for the BG is more than enough time to respecc.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Ylera View Post
    maybe give them 5 mins to balance and iron out the system's flaws before QQing? it's day 1 of a new patch ffs.
    If you read the tweets 3 days ago GC flat out said "why would anyone ever switch to heals?". As in he doesn't think it's a problem. As in it will more than likely persist for a very long time before being addressed.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-22 at 03:36 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Ryft View Post
    If you had the time to grind out the ranks each week, the warlord gear was on par with raid gear. The youtube "heroes" you speak of certainly had that time to dedicate to the game. (I dont begrudge them for it, its just a fact).

    The Blue set which I had (up to rank 9), was nothing compared to the BWL/AQ40 gear that you would face in BGs in later vanilla patches.
    I'm sorry but I have to respond to this. While gear discrepancies were prevalent back then more than ever, they meant less than ever as well. It was a lot more class based than gear based. A blue geared warrior could take out a Naxx geared rogue if the rogue wasn't abusing the heck out of prep/stun locks. A blue geared mage could destroy an AQ40 geared hunter etc. etc.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-22 at 03:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    So go do it then? If you honestly believe you could do a better job than Blizzard, I absolutely challenge you to do so.
    There has been tens if not hundreds of times where Blizzard's judgement calls on things like this were flat out retarded and where the ideas shouted by players, no matter how bad, were still a trillion times better than Blizzard's implementations. No one is saying they can develop a better game than Blizzard. What we're saying is that, were we given a chance, we could and definitely WOULD make better decisions in some regards than Blizzard has in the past including this one.
    Quote Originally Posted by High Overlord Saurfang
    "I am he who watches they. I am the fist of retribution. That which does quell the recalcitrant. Dare you defy the Warchief? Dare you face my merciless judgement?"
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