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  1. #1

    pvp changes in 5.3 will ruin the pvp fun (my opinion)

    In my opinion, the changes relating to pvp, which occur in patch 5.3 are a mistake (most of them).
    If a player does not understand that he needs to equip for pvp to play pvp, then he is not a player psychologically ready to play pvp.
    If a player feels "scared" to fight against other players because his armor is weaker he is not a pvp player.
    If a player doesn't understand that pvp is for those who enjoy pvp and he needs to work a bit to get his goals, then he shouldn't start playing pvp.
    Pvp is similar entering the military with a lower rank and go climbing until you reach the top. Nobody joins the army as colonel or general, the guy has to deserve the promotion.
    What Blizzard is trying to implement (equating pvp and pve gear) can ruin the fun and the feel of promotion that exists in pvp.
    In vanilla the pvp was always full of players ... changes were happening, always "to improve gameplay", but what we see is a steady decline. Because of all these changes, today the pvp is boring ... everyone can heal, everyone has similar CCs, classes have lost their identity, which made them unique. Blizzard should do serious research with the existing players to find out what the players want to do ... and not change things based on the egocentric delusions of some developers who probably do not play WOW and do not listen the community.
    This is my opinion.
    Ghostcrawler is gone, time to celebrate!

  2. #2
    Sounds like PvP's only fun for you if you have undergeared players to thrash.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Sounds like PvP's only fun for you if you have undergeared players to thrash.
    Agree. OP, why are you so worried abot a more level playing field? If it makes you feel better, you can gank some lowbies in Stranglethorn.

    High barriers to entry just chase off new players and are bad for the overall health of the game. Somebody trying out pvp for the first time would be more likely to continue playing (maybe even bring in new friends, too) if he/she didn't get rolled nonstop for the days it takes to become semi-competitive and able to survive a few seconds.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    everyone can heal, everyone has similar CCs, classes have lost their identity, which made them unique.
    I really don't understand this sentiment. There's a couple classes that feel similar, and there's some homogenization, but Cycloning and Shifting are still "Druid things", stealth, control, and burst are still "Rogue things", charging around and dishing a lot of uptime and damage are still "Warrior things" and so on. Those classes don't feel the same at all.

  5. #5
    I do not understand the changes also; and the implied différences between, pvp players and pve players, such as:
    -pve players need regular stuff upgrades to stay interested in the game but apparently pvp players are happy with prestige-look-only gear
    - it is important for pve people to be able to try pvp gameplay in their pve gear but it does not seem important for pvp players to be able to try pve content with their pvp gear or to help a raid team missing a few players.
    - pvp gear will always be the best choice in pvp. Sorry Blizzard has always had an abyssimal track record on this, including in 5.2 & I don't see this changing especially with trinkets.
    - another side effect is I guess crafted pvp gear will be of no use, yet new crafting professions that will never earn a buck, joining for example enchanters who are forced to provide their disenchanting services for free in groups.
    - The fact is pvp players need also to feel progression and Equipment is part of it. It's not all of it and for example many pvp players were quite mad when hard earned titles were super cheaply recycled for rbgs, erasing all the time and passion they put into getting these titles.
    - the only positive I see is that devs will have a hard time hiding behind the stuff-is-different-defense to explain why some classes are facerolling other classes.

    -> an easy way for Blizzard to fulfill their aim would have been new challenge pvp modes / rbgs where ilvl, resilience & pvp power would have been auto equalised.
    Last edited by Silmarieni; 2013-05-16 at 02:22 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I really don't understand this sentiment. There's a couple classes that feel similar, and there's some homogenization, but Cycloning and Shifting are still "Druid things", stealth, control, and burst are still "Rogue things", charging around and dishing a lot of uptime and damage are still "Warrior things" and so on. Those classes don't feel the same at all.
    If you've played the game longer than 6 months you would understand. Blizz has really given every class every ability, and that's part of what has ruined pvp. In early days, either you were a healing class/spec, or you weren't. Melee classes weren't invincible while they popped coolies for 5-10 seconds, pets couldn't solo a player, and offhealing from a hybrid class couldn't keep several people alive. There weren't a billion get-out-of-jail-free cards given to every class. The way the game exists now, every class has 1+ silence, 1-2 immunes, offheals/self healing that will get them at least 30-50% hp back or more, and several charge/tele mechanics. That is how they have attempted to balance the playing field. I'd really enjoy if they took all of that away and made it a distinct class based game again.

    The changes that have taken place (and following suit in 5.3) have just made the game even more casual and pick-up-and-play oriented, which while I agree helps new players get into the game and not get "frustrated," challenges exist in RPG's for a reason. Without barriers or challenges, there is little to no reward in actually doing anything in the end, which is the direction pvp is going.
    Last edited by Chestbrah; 2013-05-16 at 02:19 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    Sounds like PvP's only fun for you if you have undergeared players to thrash.
    ou are completely wrong about me. Right now I'm doing pvp with a dk lv 90 with no pvp gear (farming to have it).
    What I do not want to miss is the sense of entitlement and be a winner despite the difficulties. Life is not easy, but we won because we persevere ... this feeling is what (in my opinion) will be withdrawn from those who really enjoy the pvp, from the moment when any gear iwill be as good as that designed specifically for pvp. I respect your opinion, I just ask you to respect mine too ... . I'm not a coward and don't want to take advantage of those who have no gear. I just want to have progression in pvp and not just in pve. Otherwise, it would be fair to ask my pvp gear to be as good as the top pve gear ... which obviously also not fair (in my opinion).
    Ghostcrawler is gone, time to celebrate!

  8. #8
    I think a lot of us believe competition should involve a level playing field. Victory in encounters and the overall matches should be because the team worked together and outplayed--not because one side had fewer fresh 90s. I understand you feel accomplishment in gearing up--that's why I think Blizzard should add other incentives. I like the idea of titles and cool looking gear.

  9. #9
    Warchief Henkdejager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    ou are completely wrong about me. Right now I'm doing pvp with a dk lv 90 with no pvp gear (farming to have it).
    What I do not want to miss is the sense of entitlement and be a winner despite the difficulties. Life is not easy, but we won because we persevere ... this feeling is what (in my opinion) will be withdrawn from those who really enjoy the pvp, from the moment when any gear iwill be as good as that designed specifically for pvp. I respect your opinion, I just ask you to respect mine too ... . I'm not a coward and don't want to take advantage of those who have no gear. I just want to have progression in pvp and not just in pve. Otherwise, it would be fair to ask my pvp gear to be as good as the top pve gear ... which obviously also not fair (in my opinion).
    Stopped reading after 3 lines , yes life is hard , but pvpng with NO pvp gear is impossible. Really i get slaughtered on my just dinged with crafted pvp geared lock. Yes 10k incinerate are fun as hell man! Really is
    Stuff

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by warlockiii View Post
    I think a lot of us believe competition should involve a level playing field. Victory in encounters and the overall matches should be because the team worked together and outplayed--not because one side had fewer fresh 90s. I understand you feel accomplishment in gearing up--that's why I think Blizzard should add other incentives. I like the idea of titles and cool looking gear.

    While I agree with the whole skill based idea, that sort of gets thrown out of the window because of every class being able to do everything, and certain classes not having to coordinate anything at all to score kills when they can just sit on someone and eventually get them down. Classes need to be more unique again for skill to really play into things. I don't consider popping all of one's cooldowns, going immune, and coming out of it and killing something skill.

  11. #11
    High Overlord MegaTommy's Avatar
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    Pvp is similar entering the military with a lower rank and go climbing until you reach the top. Nobody joins the army as colonel or general, the guy has to deserve the promotion.
    We already have that in the form of RBG and and arena titles/ratings.
    The pvp changes for 5.3 are very good, there is absolutely no argument against it other than "but i like the gear gap" which is ridiculous.
    "Gul'dan never did anything out of misguided love, or from a desire to prove himself. He wasn't trying to save anyone. He didn't ever come to understand his mistakes and try and redeem them. He wasn't inspired by an insane titan's visitation and he cared not at all for the lives he would or would not destroy (...) He may be the single most evil character in all lore."

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by MegaTommy View Post
    We already have that in the form of RBG and and arena titles/ratings.
    The pvp changes for 5.3 are very good, there is absolutely no argument against it other than "but i like the gear gap" which is ridiculous.
    Why is a gear gap ridiculous? It makes the RPG elements of the game worth something. Hell, there's more of a "gear gap" in games like call of duty now because you have to work to get better weapons than other people, and then you kill people with shittier weapons easier. Really no different.

  13. #13
    I am Murloc! Baracuda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    ou are completely wrong about me. Right now I'm doing pvp with a dk lv 90 with no pvp gear (farming to have it).
    What I do not want to miss is the sense of entitlement and be a winner despite the difficulties. Life is not easy, but we won because we persevere ... this feeling is what (in my opinion) will be withdrawn from those who really enjoy the pvp, from the moment when any gear iwill be as good as that designed specifically for pvp. I respect your opinion, I just ask you to respect mine too ... . I'm not a coward and don't want to take advantage of those who have no gear. I just want to have progression in pvp and not just in pve. Otherwise, it would be fair to ask my pvp gear to be as good as the top pve gear ... which obviously also not fair (in my opinion).
    If you atm win over someone with gear when you have none it's because they suck, not because you're good.

    You still have the same amount of gear in PvP, except weapon maybe. Elite gear is stupid and it wasn't present in TBC, "The Golden Age".
    Quote Originally Posted by kbarh View Post
    may i suggest you check out wowwiki or any similar site, it's Grom that orders the murder of Cairne

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Silmarieni View Post
    I do not understand the changes also; and the implied différences between, pvp players and pve players, such as:
    -pve players need regular stuff upgrades to stay interested in the game but apparently pvp players are happy with prestige-look-only gear
    - it is important for pve people to be able to try pvp gameplay in their pve gear but it does not seem important for pvp players to be able to try pve content with their pvp gear or to help a raid team missing a few players.
    - pvp gear will always be the best choice in pvp. Sorry Blizzard has always had an abyssimal track record on this, including in 5.2 & I don't see this changing especially with trinkets.
    - another side effect is I guess crafted pvp gear will be of no use, yet new crafting professions that will never earn a buck, joining for example enchanters who are forced to provide their disenchanting services for free in groups.
    - The fact is pvp players need also to feel progression and Equipment is part of it. It's not all of it and for example many pvp players were quite mad when hard earned titles were super cheaply recycled for rbgs, erasing all the time and passion they put into getting these titles.
    - the only positive I see is that devs will have a hard time hiding behind the stuff-is-different-defense to explain why some classes are facerolling other classes.

    -> an easy way for Blizzard to fulfill their aim would have been new challenge pvp modes / rbgs where ilvl, resilience & pvp power would have been auto equalised.
    item levels are going to be scaled down in 5.3 in Random bgs, rated bgs and arenas. i doubt anyone will take a 496 pve trinket over a 496+pvp ilvl pvp trinket

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Henkdejager View Post
    Stopped reading after 3 lines , yes life is hard , but pvpng with NO pvp gear is impossible. Really i get slaughtered on my just dinged with crafted pvp geared lock. Yes 10k incinerate are fun as hell man! Really is
    Stopped to reading after "pvpng with NO pvp gear is impossible"
    Nobody started at lv 1 with pvp gear, all players get the items, playing PVP
    If u want free pvp gear "I want" free pve gear... what's the difference between you and me? Simple, I do not want it.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-16 at 04:13 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by ongu01 View Post
    item levels are going to be scaled down in 5.3 in Random bgs, rated bgs and arenas. i doubt anyone will take a 496 pve trinket over a 496+pvp ilvl pvp trinket
    this is my hope

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-16 at 04:20 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Baracuda View Post
    If you atm win over someone with gear when you have none it's because they suck, not because you're good.
    .
    Or because I worked harder in pvp? Just think about it for 1 minute: if all gear will be good for pvp why all gear can not be good for pve too?
    Ghostcrawler is gone, time to celebrate!

  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral jackofwind's Avatar
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    Playing an MMO without any meaningful gear progression tailored to both PvE and PvP playstyles is barely different than playing a lobby-based FPS.
    Hell, even the most popular twitch-based FPS games include meaningful progression these days.

    If the farmer on one side of the fence gets what the rancher on the other side of the fence has simply by nature of growing his vegetables like he always has, why would he ever even try his hand at ranching? And where does that leave the rancher, who doesn't get what the farmer has simply by means of ranching, yet must compete against that farmer, who has reaped the rewards of both professions while only pursuing one?
    Last edited by jackofwind; 2013-05-16 at 04:30 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    Or because I worked harder in pvp? Just think about it for 1 minute: if all gear will be good for pvp why all gear can not be good for pve too?


    Dear little baby Jesus in a stupid ass manger,

    Please do not let blizz make all of the endgame content progession afkable and pointless. And also don't baseline every damn thing in the game.


    Oops too late.

    Amen.

    infracted.
    Last edited by Nicola; 2013-05-17 at 10:23 PM.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Chestbrah View Post
    Dear little baby Jesus in a stupid ass manger,

    Please do not let blizz make all of the endgame content progession afkable and pointless. And also don't baseline every damn thing in the game.
    read all topic


    Oops too late.

    Amen.
    read all entire topic to not write again without knowing that it is the subject.
    "Next time, wait for the van to stop ... then u enter."
    Last edited by Biruta; 2013-05-16 at 04:41 PM.
    Ghostcrawler is gone, time to celebrate!

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Biruta View Post
    read all entire topic to not write again without knowing that it is the subject.
    Salá
    Implying the topic isn't discussing the upcoming 5.3 pvp changes that are closing the pvp gap between pvp and non pvp geared people and further reducing the challenge and variety in the game.

  20. #20
    Blademaster Haziza's Avatar
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    Yeah i agree as well, i fell good owning noobs with no gear its allways been a part of the game and i like it.

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