1. #1

    Lei Shen Trinket upgrade for more proccs?

    Does the Lei Shen trinket procc more if you upgrade it? And if so how more often does e.g. the normal thunderforged procc with 2 upgrades?

  2. #2
    The Patient sasofrass's Avatar
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    The proc frequency changes based on the ilvl of the trinket:

    541 ilevel = 112.88% proc multiplier
    535 ilevel = 106.74% proc multiplier
    528 ilevel = 100.00% proc multiplier
    522 ilevel = 94.56% proc multiplier
    502 ilevel = 78.49% proc multiplier
    463 ilevel = 54.57% proc multiplier

    This counts for both Unerring Vision and Rune of Re-Origination.
    That should help you, so yes it will proc more if you upgrade it.

  3. #3
    RPPM trinkets do proc more once upgraded, if the lie shen trinket is RPPM then yes

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kipling View Post
    RPPM trinkets do proc more once upgraded, if the lie shen trinket is RPPM then yes
    That is actually false, the UVLS trinket proc multiplier increases because you can't increase the proc itself beyond 100% crit chance.
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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Clevix View Post
    That is actually false, the UVLS trinket proc multiplier increases because you can't increase the proc itself beyond 100% crit chance.
    Well no, that's why he said that it procs more (often), not that the proc itself is more (stronger). So instead of proccing once per minute it would proc twice per minute (random number out of my ass, just to illustrate).

    Overall it's not worth upgrading the UVLS trinket, really, despite the soulswap nerf - there's better pieces to upgrade.

  6. #6
    Well.. what Clevix wanted to say is that only UVLS (and Rune of Re-Origination for meele) does proc more often.. solely because the proc itself can't be upgraded. Any other RPPM trinket keeps the same 'proc chance' when upgraded but will have a stronger proc. So Kiplings generalization for every RPPM trinket is indeed not correct..
    Last edited by miiasma; 2013-05-23 at 01:22 AM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by miiasma View Post
    Well.. what Clevix wanted to say is that only UVLS (and Rune of Re-Origination for meele) does proc more often.. solely because the proc itself can't be upgraded. Any other RPPM trinket keeps the same 'proc chance' when upgraded but will have a stronger proc. So Kiplings generalization for every RPPM trinket is indeed not correct..
    please link your source for this info, as far as i know trinkets like BoTH , wush and cha'yes all have higher chance to proc with higher ilvl in fact all rppm trinkets do

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Liquidsteel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by weakdots View Post
    please link your source for this info, as far as i know trinkets like BoTH , wush and cha'yes all have higher chance to proc with higher ilvl in fact all rppm trinkets do
    No need for a source, you're completely correct Weakdots. All RPPM trinkets have a higher proc multiplier the higher the ilvl. The other trinkets just gain a bit more out of the upgrade as they also have a proc which can be upgraded. Still, upgrading UVLS (if I had one) would be worth it, if only to smooth out the RNG that can so often plague us this tier.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by weakdots View Post
    please link your source for this info, as far as i know trinkets like BoTH , wush and cha'yes all have higher chance to proc with higher ilvl in fact all rppm trinkets do
    I would relly like to see your source for this, because I see absolutely no reason to have the RPPM rate scale with ilvl while the prop power already does scale. The only exception to this rule are trinkets where the proc is of constant power (UVLS, RoRO), afaik.
    Surutcra@EU-Hyjal (Arcturus#2484)

  10. #10
    So, I'm in "average" raid guild -- actually, we're a bit ahead of the curve ... 50th percentile on wowprogress would be somewhere between Megaera and Ji-Kun normal, and we're working on getting Iron Qon next ... whatever.

    Anyway, I'm working with UVLS lfr version, and I'm wondering if it would be worth it to upgrade. BotH has eluded me (only has dropped once for us including bonus rolls, with two 10-player groups running her typically each week, me dropping a bonus roll each time).

    I recently went from the 6637 haste breakpoint to as much haste as I can get (10,672 atm), and it seems like my rppm trinks (Wush normal and UVLS lfr) proc a ton more often ... looking at the breakdown posted earlier I'm thinking the full upgrade should increase the base chance by about 6/7% ...

    Hrm, I'll have to dig around and find the exact formula for how haste affects UVLS ... coulda swore I had seen the formula for rppm in general, and I have the info on spec and ilvl modifiers for UVLS ...

  11. #11
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=96516#comments
    Read that comment, he includes how the proc rate scales and there is NOT any ilvl factored in anywhere in that equation. He links Blizzard sources as well. Having a trinket scale both in terms of proc rate, proc power and passives would just be nuts. Cha-Ye in particular scales from both haste and crit, not ilvl.
    The other RPPM trinkets apart from UVLS only scale from Haste.
    Last edited by Clevix; 2013-05-23 at 08:22 AM. Reason: Auto-correct on phone
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  12. #12
    Tbh i'm curious about this too, i didn't think the proc rate of BoTH would get higher by upgrading it. Since the actual proc has room to grow
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Clevix View Post
    http://www.wowhead.com/item=96516#comments
    Read that comment, he includes how the proc rate scales and there is NOT any ilvl factored in anywhere in that equation. He links Blizzard sources as well. Having a trinket scale both in terms of proc rate, proc power and passives would just be nuts. Cha-Ye in particular scales fr.o.m. both haste and crit, not ilvl.
    Except that Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen works in a different way. http://www.wowhead.com/item=94524#comments
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by n0cturnal View Post
    Except that Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen works in a different way. http://www.wowhead.com/item=94524#comments
    Which is exactly what I've been trying to say, might've come off in the wrong way. UVLS is the black sheep having proc rate increase by item level because the strength of the proc cannot, which all other caster trinkets can.
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  15. #15
    the links in the wowhead comment going to blizzards website dont work. if they did you would see all the rppm trinkets proc chance scales with ilvl. uvls and rune share the same multiplier, the other trinkets are different. unless you have figured out something differently from common knowledge up to this point. i tried looking on blizzard forums and also could not find the original info talking about each trinkets proc chances, most likely the pages that the wowhead commenter linked to because they no longer exist. but they were up at the beginning of 5.2

    double edit- looking at a recent blue response they only comment on uvls and ror but not the other ones, so who knows what up now.
    Last edited by weakdots; 2013-05-23 at 10:03 AM.

  16. #16
    Then, by all means, go ahead and prove me wrong, just input Wushoolay 522 in simcraft, and then with the exact same gear set-up put the Wushoolay 535 / 541 or whichever other Wushoolay you want into simcraft, do not reforge it so that haste keeps at the same point. Post your results regarding trinket up-time and please do run simcraft at as many iterations as possible to avoid the RNG-factor coming out too much.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Clevix View Post
    Then, by all means, go ahead and prove me wrong, just input Wushoolay 522 in simcraft, and then with the exact same gear set-up put the Wushoolay 535 / 541 or whichever other Wushoolay you want into simcraft, do not reforge it so that haste keeps at the same point. Post your results regarding trinket up-time and please do run simcraft at as many iterations as possible to avoid the RNG-factor coming out too much.
    Well, we don't know for sure if simcraft models the trinkets correctly.

    -----

    Intellect DPS
    Volatile Talisman of the Shado-Pan Assault – 15% chance on landing harmful spell. 45 sec ICD.
    Wushoolay’s Final Choice – 0.56 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful abilities and spells, and periodic spells. 22 sec ICD.
    Breath of the Hydra – 0.50 RealPPM on damage/absorb from periodic spell. No ICD.
    Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen – 0.50 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD. Proc rate multiplied by 0.00 for non-caster specs. Proc rate multiplied by 0.5 for Balance Druids. Proc rate multiplied by 0.25 against player controlled units. Proc rate multiplied by 1/(1.15^((528-ItemLevel)/15) for the various Item Level versions of the trinket.
    Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance – 0.77*(1+SpellCritChance) RealPPM on critical harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD.

    It's only UVLS scaling with ilvl. That's the last post (mmo-champion. com/content/3154) I could find about proc chances. Unfortunatly the original topic is deleted, but after this they just added the bad streak protection and adjusted the rppm values by 5% / 10% (us.battle. net/wow/en/forum/topic/8197741003). I couldn't find any posts addressing further trinket changes.

    So if I recall correctly UVLS and Rune of Re-Origination proc chances scaling with ilvl really are an exception. Maybe I am missing something though.

    Not allowed to post links. Delete spaces.
    Last edited by miiasma; 2013-05-23 at 01:23 PM.

  18. #18
    Mechagnome Hexotic's Avatar
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    Icy veins lock trinket post:
    The CD is more like an average number that shows uptime. On a 6 min fight, 60 sec cd would mean the trinket procs roughly 6 times during those 6 minutes, this of course is subject to huge RNG and if your luck is anything like mine, you will get just 1 proc in a 10 min fight.
    20% haste is assumed

    Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen – 0.525 RealPPM on damage/absorb from harmful spells and periodic spells. No ICD. Proc rate multiplied by 0.00 for non-caster specs. Proc rate multiplied by 0.5 for Balance Druids. Proc rate multiplied by 0.25 against player controlled units. Proc rate multiplied by 1/(1.15^((528-ItemLevel)/15) for the various Item Level versions of the trinket.

    LFR = 1.2 * 0.525 * .7849 = 0.494 Real PPM (121.45 sec CD)
    Reg = 1.2 * 0.525 * .9456 = 0.596 Real PPM (100.67 sec CD)
    HC = 1.2 * 0.525 * 1.0674 = 0.672 Real PPM (89.29 sec CD)

    Full Haste Heroic Thunderforged and Upgraded Twice calculation
    HC TF Ux2 (549 ilvl) w/45% Raid Haste = 0.525 * 1.45 * 1.2161 = 0.928 PPM = 64.65 sec CD
    Last edited by Hexotic; 2013-05-24 at 09:41 PM.

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