So 5.3 caused disc to be miles ahead again.

[Floopa]

This is a really odd argument. DPS is important for your progression, so it does not matter that disc does not heal as much since they bring in DPS. However on the other hand fist weaving or the new druid talent are not really worth it, because they don't heal enough and cost too much mana?

Yes, Atonement has no negative impact. It's a dumb style which presents nothing but positives.

[Venaliter]

This is a really odd argument
Feel free to try and post any log you have showing a kill that was entirely due to disc DPS on 25man.

Come on, Havoc. We've all been there where the boss died 1 second before the CD on his massive burst damage thing was up. Did Disc DPS make the difference? Sure did.

But you can't argue; at all, really; you NEED Disc dps to make a timer. Your dps *should* be able to handle it, but it does buy some breathing room for low-performers, for whatever reason.

I'd like to see Fistweaving, Atonement, and DoC all roughly the same DPS and as close to healing parity as they can get it.

[Beefkow]

I hear disc priests are very op in 5.4, takes at least 5 people to take down a "pro" disc priest (usually it would take a least 2, according to 3's).

But, unfortunately disc priests are still getting buffed and no signs of disc priest adjustments, only talent buffs.

[Venaliter]

I hear disc priests are very op in 5.4, takes at least 5 people to take down a "pro" disc priest (usually it would take a least 2, according to 3's).

But, unfortunately disc priests are still getting buffed and no signs of disc priest adjustments, only talent buffs.

Yeah, bit of an exaggeration there. Right now Disc can be soloed by certain classes. It's true that certain disc talents got buffed, maybe too much (Divine Insight.) but 5 is patently ridiculous.

Tell those five people to play classes they know how to play. and Dispel the bubbles.

[nobodysbaby]

Very ironic I wrote about dps matters the moment before our raid on Ra Den. I actually had to go smite chakra for the whole first phase for our group to handle the orb killing. I have not good gear for dps as holy but still.. our Disc both outhealed me and ofc did much higher dps by a large margin. Sure, our healleader called for my hymn in a very awkward moment so I managed to get 90% overheal on it, but the point is dps matter and it really needs to count as performance and not only healing!

[Beefkow]

Yeah, bit of an exaggeration there. Right now Disc can be soloed by certain classes. It's true that certain disc talents got buffed, maybe too much (Divine Insight.) but 5 is patently ridiculous.

Tell those five people to play classes they know how to play. and Dispel the bubbles.

lol, i said "pro", not casual or a disc priest in general, and im not exaggerating... DISC PRIESTS DO NOT DIE.

[nobodysbaby]

Very disapointing if the next tier progression will be the same; Disc> Holy and from what I read today GC think both are doing fine! Except mana.

Worrying.

[Floopa]

Very disapointing if the next tier progression will be the same; Disc> Holy and from what I read today GC think both are doing fine! Except mana.

Worrying.

They're both "equal" hps wise, but absorbs/atonement is why Disc is preferred.

[Anastacy]

lol, i said "pro", not casual or a disc priest in general, and im not exaggerating... DISC PRIESTS DO NOT DIE.

Yeah, a "pro" Disc Priest prolly can survive a good long while against bad DPS (which any healer could, for that matter). That was kind of the post Venaliter was making.

I make it a habit of harassing Horde on my server whenever possible. There's been cases where I can take on 3+ of them (albeit slowly), and then there's times where 1 keeps me going for so long, a 2nd shows up, and due to them actually knowing how to silence/stun/dispel/etc, I get tore the fuck up.

My point: The times I "pwn the baddies" is just that...they're bad.

[AvatarM]

This is a really odd argument. DPS is important for your progression, so it does not matter that disc does not heal as much since they bring in DPS. However on the other hand fist weaving or the new druid talent are not really worth it, because they don't heal enough and cost too much mana?

The whole discussion about how divine aegis makes atonement good, is also patently ridiculous. Divine aegis from atonement is random, which means it cannot be relied on to save someone. If it does its a happy accident and not something that you can count on. This is inescapable. If aegis frequently saves ppl then ppl will be dying left right and centre due to RNG with getting divine aegis. Either aegis from atonement rarely saves ppl, or it is completely useless, because people need it constantly and there is no guarantee it can be supplied.

Disc DPS on 25man is much less than the RNG from rppm trinkets. Its only value is to infrequently mitigate some of that RNG. Also atonement is not very high HPS, so to push the healing output disc can't really atonement heal that much.

If you really need a disc priest to make the enrage on 25man, then you simply don't have the DPS for the encounter. And it is best to drop a healer completely (the one with the lowest output) and use more hybrids with good off-healing CDs. Being unable to get past the enrage without disc dps, means that even with zero bad RNG for the DPS you can't get a kill, so any bad RNG will wipe you whether the disc priest DPSs or not. That means probably dozens of wipes just waiting for good luck. That is going to be massively inferior to trying to cope with one less healer.

Feel free to try and post any log you have showing a kill that was entirely due to disc DPS on 25man.

DA is not random, its on crit, A good geared Disc priest have more then 40% crit buffed. Druid DoC have the same HPS/DPS of Smite spam. but guess what, Disc priest have penance. Wrath is not mana neutral, Wrath is TOO slow, so it will overheal MUCH MORE.

- DA do not overheal
- faster casts will overheal less over slower casts if they have the same DPS/HPS.
- Disc Priest have penance
- atonement is mana neutral, new DoC is not

This 4 things make atonement, much, much better then DoC. Wanna see atonement sucking? Remove offensive penance and DA from atonement.

Disc priest DPS do not make a huge difference in 25 man, but IT DOES on 10 man. This game is not about 25 man balance. PVE need to be balanced for both raid sizes. We already have a ton o problems regarding raid size and balance.

[Rorschachs]

TBH what is more important is that so many encounters are designed with lots of boom and bust and no need for high sustained HPS. Also what is retarded is how much holy suffers from lack of damage to heal. They really need to address that. What I would like to see is EoL being changed to work kinda like PoM on overheal. I.e. overhealing EoL stores up some healing which is released when ppl take damage

And that is retarded design. It makes no sense that a healer doesn't do well because there is nothing to heal. It's like a dps failing to dps because there is nothing to hit.

The current healing design is incredibly boring for every healer but disc and imo they just need to nerf healing over the board.

edit : but again doing what I suggested and/or changing the encounters wouldn't work because int no longer gives us more mana and we are doomed to go oom on any fight that requires us to use our brain even slightly until the second tier of any expansion when we can get enough spirit. The current healing is broken and nobody even realizes that because they gave us a legendary meta gem as a bandaid..

[Deleted]

TBH what is more important is that so many encounters are designed with lots of boom and bust and no need for high sustained HPS.

Probably one of the most sensible things said in this thread. Current fight design caters to Disc niche(s) alot. Be it damage modifiers, atonement's range, or more importantly as stated the burst raid damage that is soaked by spirit shell or other absorbs 90% of the time.

This aside disc is generally a bit overpowered - especially in 10s - although there's loads of exaggeration from people who seem to hold a grudge against the spec.

[Isheria]

I think you got it backwards there, healing does not need to be nerfed absorbs do cause when you can shield ppl for almost 80% of their health pool you can clearly see something is broken. In fact the solution to bring balance is so simple yet it will never happen because of massive outcry, it's not exactly difficult to nerf absorbs and buff healing of said spec. Next expansion may as well remove healing spells and replace them with shields at the rate things going.

[Noradin]

And that is retarded design. It makes no sense that a healer doesn't do well because there is nothing to heal. It's like a dps failing to dps because there is nothing to hit.

Ah, but its not the healer that doesn't do well when there is nothing to heal (not like disc with the first version of Rapture back in BC), because he is: Nobody dies.
Its the meter-whore that 'fails' to get high numbers.

Healers (and tanks) are no damage dealers where it is mostly clear how to weight different numbers against each other, healing potential has worth as well and thus so does overheal.
If two healers cast spells each of which would prevent the death of a player on its own, but the spells of one of them always get resolved first by the server and thus he gets all the effective healing on the logs, that still doesn't mean that the healing of the other wouldn't have done de job just as well. Why would his healing be worth less then? - It simply isn't. The overlap that shows up on the logs as 'overheal' is caused by them both.

[Floopa]

The current healing design is incredibly boring for every healer but disc and imo they just need to nerf healing over the board.

Are you drunk?

Like Isheria said, unless shields get nerfed then every class' primary healing mechanic should be absorbs because shielding for the amount PW:S and DA can is totally ridiculous.

[Deleted]

Ah, but its not the healer that doesn't do well when there is nothing to heal (not like disc with the first version of Rapture back in BC), because he is: Nobody dies.
Its the meter-whore that 'fails' to get high numbers.

It's not just meter-whoring. It's having something to do, I don't think anyone actually likes just standing around waiting for someone to take damage.
The current encounter design makes healing boring for classes without absorbs, simply because absorbs win for burst damage, and outside that there's not that much to do anymore.

[Uri-zuljin]

It's not just meter-whoring. It's having something to do, I don't think anyone actually likes just standing around waiting for someone to take damage.
The current encounter design makes healing boring for classes without absorbs, simply because absorbs win for burst damage, and outside that there's not that much to do anymore.

Maybe, I'm just fucking terrible, but lets say I spirit shell on h25 Megaera. Those initial absorbs I place on the raid usually last maybe 1 full second into the rampage. I'd really like to know what planet this disc priest is on that's completely hindering you from healing the remaining 19 seconds of that damage burst.

The only fights I completely cockblock people on with heals are horridon and Ji'kun. And I don't do it well on Ji'kun, there's still plenty of quill damage to heal


Inb4 more people jump on the hate train, I agree, disc is overpowered in 10s because of the blizzard nerfs to content through thunderforged items/item upgrades and the way the encounters are designed. But in a 25man setting as the sole disc priest, I am not stopping anywhere near the amount of damage you say I am.

[Deleted]

Maybe, I'm just fucking terrible, but lets say I spirit shell on h25 Megaera. Those initial absorbs I place on the raid usually last maybe 1 full second into the rampage. I'd really like to know what planet this disc priest is on that's completely hindering you from healing the remaining 19 seconds of that damage burst.

The only fights I completely cockblock people on with heals are horridon and Ji'kun. And I don't do it well on Ji'kun, there's still plenty of quill damage to heal


Inb4 more people jump on the hate train, I agree, disc is overpowered in 10s because of the blizzard nerfs to content through thunderforged items/item upgrades and the way the encounters are designed. But in a 25man setting as the sole disc priest, I am not stopping anywhere near the amount of damage you say I am.

I am this disc priest, and I'm not saying I'm stopping a full rampage on Megaera. Also whatever I say is 10man PoV, and in 10s I usually cap SS on both groups. I'm also not referring to just disc priests, just absorbs in general. I used to heal with a holy paladin, and occasionally a third healer, I don't think the third healer had a lot of fun.

And yeah I understand that in 25s it's completely different, you'll have less healers with absorbs, and more raid damage to handle. That's probably the reason blizzard isn't outright nerfing disc's absorbs.

[Uri-zuljin]

One thing that I've always thought they need to do with absorbs is to make it them more like tank block. Disc could start out with our shields blocking 40-50% of incoming damage before it bypasses the shields. Then our mastery could increase the amount blocked from each hit by a certain percentage. I feel like at this point most of the pw:s spamming you see in 10s would be reduced because the shields would just fall off without being absorbed and it would also be a very small nerf to rapture.


I'm sure someone whose better at math could balance it better than that. I'm pretty sure though that even if they did something like this you would still see the same people making exaggerations about absorbs.

[snaxattax]

the thing is having one disc priest in 10 man is more like having 2-3 in 25man. having 3 discs in 25 man does pretty much cockblock heals on megaera because you can barrier each triple spirit shell and it takes almost half the rampage to burn through them.

and, yeah, turning them into a block/ward where they only reduce a certain amount of damage could make super high absorb uptime farm content less ridiculous. the entire way that absorbs are consumed is really goofy and klugey and make certain classes/abilities better than others, and at the same time interact in a way that is grossly overpowered in certain cases (like destro/demo warlocks getting perma soul leech with enough sac pact/disc absorbs to blunt raid damage). making large absorbs (which would be considered 'strongest' by most players) more liable to do zero absorption when you have multiple sources of absorb going out is just stupid.