MoP stat scaling is out of control!

[nyc81991]

WoW is an Mmo where the goal is to make your character stronger over time.

What you are seeing with stat scaling is making your Character stronger.

[stuck4cash]

See, anyone that has any idea sees that the big squish has 1 intended purpose and the actual scale is irrelevant.

It's all about performance. Get all numbers below the 32-bit limit (2147483647) and you'll get better performance. This is the real reason that Blizzard wants to do it and I don't understand why they haven't yet forced the issue.

[ChadBroChill17]

I agree that it is out of hand 100%. The DPS difference between gear levels is absolutely ridiculous.

[Belize]

for me the perfect number would be 10k-

Now that 10k would be super awesomesauce dps in hc gear and anyone doing over that by a few hundred are very highly ranked on WoL

Average dps 6-8k. I mush preferred it when these sort of numbers were in force. It didn't boggle the mind to try and think in terms of hundreds of thousands and little tweaks earning you % of that.

So... you want the dps meters to look like Wraths? Yeah... I'd agree I think. It has big m=numbers if you're good/geared and decent numbers if you're average

[hablix]

Karazhan dropped up to ilvl 125 epics; Sunwell epics were ilvl 165. So 40 ilvls separating entry from final tier. We now have that in a single tier between LFR and Heroic Thunderforged. The DPS disparity even for between LFR and Heroic raiders in this tier is so massive that it makes the game feel broken. Doing 10% more DPS sounds reasonable, but in LFR I frequently see a small handful (usually 2 or 3 people) who are 20% and more above the rest. These are people that are Normal/Heroic, some Thunderforged. I mean, using one's head it's easy to see that it is gear, but at a glance it makes it look like the balance in this game is so hopelessly out of whack that they've completely given up trying.

[Deleted]

I gotta admit, seeing the numbers increased so much since the Vanilla days is fun for me. Chatted about this a few times over the years with peeps who were also around back then and we laugh about it, tanks used to have I think around 10k hp, tbc was between 18-25k, wotlk 50k, cata just over the 100k mark but with MoP I've seen tanks floating just below the 1 million point.

I'm sure there's tanks out there that have broken that 1 million in fights probably with procs and other things such as quick hp boost from an ability or maybe just because they stacked some stam gems and buffed it pushes them over. I don't personally want an item squish purely because I'm a dps and love seeing my big numbers hehe, who doesn't but even my warlock sits just below 560k with raid buffs, so to of jumped in number so much in terms of it originally looking like it jumped up only double the previous tier give or take a few thousand to now being 5-7 times what it was in cata is abit of a stretch.

I think in a post somewhere blizz said they did this on purpose to force us the players as some have already stated "to beg for the squish" but the average raider is adaptable, it's why we down bosses. We take what we're given by blizzard and we make it work in a way that lets us progress in whatever it is we're doing so in my opinion they were kind of asking for it in terms of why there was so few in the community actually wanting the squish.

Severely reducing the stats on gear and in some cases removing old pieces (like someone mentioned earlier in the thread) completely because they would only have below X amount of stats on them making them irrelevant at low levels isn't gonna work now either. They should of just carried on how they were with possibly doubling up the stats each time so that by the final expansion, a tank sitting over 1 million hp wouldn't be daunting like it can be now to some players.

If you follow the logic of them increasing them dramatically like they have done at the moment, I don't see why, by the time the final expacks roll out, tanks will be around 5-7million hp, dps will be able to 1 shot anything from ICC onwards up to a certain point (being overly dramatic myself here) and the players will just accept it as rule of thumb that this is the gear they been given and they'll just adapt it how they have all these years so far to get the job done to clear content.

Blizzard shouldn't wait for the community which by this point I'd say is probably their best time/chance to do so and just roll out some sort of heavy reduction with the next expansion if they're going to do it or just leave it alone now and be done with the notion we're gonna ask for it.

As I said, personally I love seeing big numbers but it's because blizz have given me the tools to reach those numbers, if they had just gone ahead with the squish when they first mentioned it, we'd of just got on with it best way we knew how and then it wouldn't of got this far lol...

With what someone said earlier though, how will a squish now effect those who like going back and doing loads of solo'in? Surely it's gonna have some impact on that as well :/ Still plenty of mounts and pets I'm sure people are after from those, myself included.

[Sliippy]

The stat scaling is BADASS, doing big numbers is why most of us play. Doing 400k aoe is cool I can barely handle it. The number SHOULD keep getting bigger because we ARE getting stronger. It makes sense. If they do, do a squish I'm gonna be pretty pissed.

[Shampro]

Stat crunching feels shitty, and at some point it will be done, but I dont feel like we need it at this moment.. Basicly crunching everyone would make a lot of people feel weaker, and I can bet freaking real money that the day that they do it, a shitstorm will break lose, people complaining that their e-pens have been nerfed.

I personally like big numbers, I like the feeling of doing more and more digits, more crits etc. It'll be done someday, but I can already see the backlast from it, even from the minority of people that are asking for it.

[Deleted]

1000k crits were a rarity for me and difficult to achieve on my monk(mostly @ Jinrohk pools, Jikun feed young). But since the massive item upgrades they happen outside the gimmick encounters too.. with those numbers you can pretty much oneshot some old raidbosses. Aside from the numbers getting too big for the screen I do agree to the Hit/Expertise topic. Being overcaped is no fun, but the most likely future scenario for melees.

[Arganaut]

I don't think the worry is big numbers or crits per se. It's the balancing of certain talents and the content we play that's getting out of hand. The passing of each tier makes the game stupidly easier. This has been happening since the start of WOW but with each tier the linear scaling is getting much higher meaning you are getting exponentially more powerful with each tier. The game won't be fun if you can one shot everything.

[xezar]

It is getting ridiculous having a 20+ jump from one normal mode gear to the next. Yeah, there are heroic level items, but the VAST majority of people don't have them, nor have most even completed all of the normal modes. So yeah...really I thought one of their goals was to control ilvl and not go up so exponentially high, guess they're failing hard on this one, makes even Cata look a bit reasonable. Even wotlk was more balanced and it still had separate 10 and 25man loot and levels.

[Kuja]

Do you have something against big numbers? I love seeing big numbers flying and tanks with a million health. Makes the game more epic.

[Mormolyce]

Here's a table of ilvls for each tier from Cata and MoP

346 Heroic Dungeon blues
T11: 359 -> 379 (H Sinestra)
T12: 372 -> 397 (H Ragnaros)
T13: 397 -> 416 (H Spine and H Madness)

70 ilvls from Blues to last tier raid gear

463 Heroic Dungeon blues
T14: 489 -> 516 (H Protectors elite mode)
T15: 522 -> 541 (Ra-den)
T16: ~550 (?) -> ~590 (?)

120+ ilvls from Blues to last tier raid gear

This is because LFR means there are three tiers of gear to each tier of raiding. Remember when in Cata they said the stat inflation wouldn't be as bad as Wrath was because they had effectively removed a tier by uniting 10 and 25m raid ILVLs? Well by introducing LFR they brought that problem back again :P

Be interesting to see the same breakdown for BC and Wrath actually.

I agree that it means constant tinkering to maintain balance each tier - at least with the complex way the talents, spells and stats work in the game. They seem okay with that workload though. But I think for sanity reasons we may see a stat squish next expansion or the one after.

While I wouldn't mind the squish I want it to be a linear squish.

In Blizzards proposed squish for Pandaria, see how Molten Core Ragnaros remains at 1 million health yet a freshly dinged 85's damage and health plummet to early BC levels? That would have a massive impact on all soloing of old raids which is something I love to do. The problem with a linear squish however is at lower levels. So every ones numbers get taken to 5% of their current numbers. Does a Level 1 have 4 hp? Does gear that previous had 1 agility now not exist? While I want a linear squish lower levels would just be silly, so overall I just don't want a squish.

No, that graph just shows how the ILVLs get squished. At the same time they were going to reduce HP/Damage/etc on all old mobs, both in the world and in raids/dungeons. The net effect would've been the same.

Regardless, no aspect of the game should be avoided just because it affects soloing. Soloing is not a supported activity. If you can solo something, great! If not, too bad.

[zephid]

It doesn't matter which number pops up when you hit something with your sword as long as everything else is scaled accordingly.

It's irrelevant if you do 50k dmg per swing or 5k since the players/mobs HP will be scaled to take those hits.

[Dristereau]

The cape from Wraithon in 5.3 is already 608, so 5.4 will be somewhere around that on Normal I assume.

[zephid]

The cape from Wraithon in 5.3 is already 608, so 5.4 will be somewhere around that on Normal I assume.

No it won't. There is no way they will make a 60 ilvl jump between ToT HC and Siege of Orgrimmar normal. It will probably be somewhere around ilvl 560 or something similar.

[cFortyfive]

Tinfoil hat... When some items from t14 still are, arguably, BiS for certain specs the increase hardly seems exaggerated. Anything lower and we'd still be running t14 for trinkets/tier sets and that's what blizzard wants to avoid.

That would be more a bad design of set bonuses than anything else but still - for which classes is that even the case still ? Some healspec maybe ? For everyone else the giant secondary stat gain alone is probably well enough to justify wearing t15 which is also my major problem with scaling this addon as I don't mind high numbers but having higher crit/haste/whateverthefuck during the second tier than on final tiers seems ridiculous and even harder to balance - not that they ever did a good job at that.

[reflection]

If you have issues comprehending large numbers, the solution is simple: Configure your UI properly.

Raidbosses in MC showed on my screen as having 350.0k hp.
Raidbosses in ToT show up on my screen as having 350.0M hp.

At level 60 I did 200 dps (or w/e, I honestly don't remember, but far below 1k anyway)
At level 90 I do 200k dps (Jinrokh hc :P)

Nothing changed, just a letter.

That's exactly what I mean. It's just numbers. Scale them up or down as you want. But maybe I'm just too rational and mathematic. I have no big emotions for numbers as long as they are competetive to other classes.

[mysticx]

[QUOTE=Mormolyce;21224608Regardless, no aspect of the game should be avoided just because it affects soloing. Soloing is not a supported activity. If you can solo something, great! If not, too bad.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Blizz are nerfing lots of stuff in years-old raids just because they don't support soloing, right? (Razorgore, C'thun, chess event)

Anyway, there probably will be an item squish in the next expansion (or the one after at the latest), going from MoP quest-greens to T14 LfR-gear is 100 itemlevels increase now, a cynical part of me thinks Blizz are inflating the increases on purpose to cause pro-squish outcry :P

The trick is in how Blizz will keep upgrades noticeable between tiers without going as far as they are now (Though to an extent that is also compensated by smaller numbers), soloing can be fixed with a zone-buff if you're several levels above the raid or a rework in how the "lower-level mobs vs high-level players"-situation works

I'm still not pro-squish, but it's pretty much inevitable by now, so best to just go with it :P

[Barael]

WoW is an Mmo where the goal is to make your character stronger over time.

What you are seeing with stat scaling is making your Character stronger.

That's actually a good point, seeing as we're currently getting (very) roughly 3 times more powerful in each expansion. So right now, at the 4th expansion, we're about 80 times (3^4) more powerful than at end of Vanilla (not too far off if you think about it: tanks have about 80-90 times more health, dps classes do 80-100 times more dps).

So what about next patch? Yep, 3^5 = 270 times more powerful. At that point we can go stack up 10 Ragnaros' on top of each other and go HULK SMASH. If you don't think that's ridiculous and detrimental to the game world cohesion, I don't know what to tell you.

Even if we didn't get rid of exponential scaling but only got 2 times more powerful each expansion, we wouldn't be more than 20 times as powerful than level 60s; ie. we probably couldn't solo most vanilla raid content. Downing a raid boss on your own would actually be something pretty cool instead of something every mouth breather can do at max level in green gear. Next expansion would only bump us up to 32 so some vanilla bosses would probably still be pretty challenging.

So to all the "it's just numbers" people, you're missing the point of the squish. Badly.