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  1. #1

    [5.2] Demonology - Unerring Vision of Lei-shen & Glyph of Everlasting Affliction?

    So I had an interesting thought that I haven't seen discussed anywhere regarding the Glyph of Everlasting Affliction.

    I'm wondering if it might actually be a dps gain to use the glyph if you have the 100% crit trinket.

    Just thinking about Doom because 1 dot is significantly easier to think about and corruption should be refreshed using ToC in meta anyway.


    Glyph of Everlasting Affliction: Increases duration of DoTs by 50%, but reduces damage done by 20%. At it's most basic, in order for using the glyph of be a DPS increase, the gain in 50% duration must outweigh the straight damage loss of 20%.

    In order for this to be the case, using the glyph must allow for an average gain in uptime dependent on normal crit chance. Doom ticks 6 times glyphed, and 3 times unglyphed (with pandemic).


    Comparing non-glyphed with glyphed, what you gain by using the glyph is:
    • 60 Demonic Fury (1 less refresh per 3 minutes)
    • 1 GCD (1 less refresh per 3 minutes)
    • A varying amount of damage based on proc times of trinket
    • Additional Wild Imp damage from increased 100% uptime

    While you lose 20% damage.

    The amount of damage gained directly from having 100% crit up more % of the time is dependent on the amount of time between procs of the trinket.

    Without Glyph:
    Can have 100% uptime of 100% crit on Doom with trinket procing between every 60 sec and 90 sec.

    With Glyph:
    Can have 100% uptime of 100% crit on Doom with trinket procing between every 90 sec and 240 sec.


    Essentially, 20% damage is the same as an increase in average crit chance by 20%, as you'll do 100% more damage an extra 20% of the time. In order for the glyph to be a no-brainer, you'd have to gain an average 20% crit chance over 3 minutes with the glyph compared to no glyph.

    It's too late and I'm too tired to actually do the math on the required proc time for the glyph to be worth it, but if anything I'm thinking that this may actually be worth it for Demo if the trinket procs more often in the 90-240 sec mark than the 60-90 mark.


    Thinking a bit further about the consequences of using the glyph, you would have significantly more Wild Imp damage if you used the glyph and the procs were able to be utilized better with Doom, so it may mean that Sac increases in value somewhat if you were to go this route.

  2. #2
    ssentially, 20% damage is the same as an increase in average crit chance by 20%, as you'll do 100% more damage an extra 20% of the time
    I'm not gonna argue over the rest and I think it's an intresting idea but what I quoted isn't true.

    Basic example:
    If x is your damage, c your base crit chance, d your bonus damage, e your bonus crit
    Base damage (average) = x * (1 + c)
    With bonus damage = x*(1+c)*(1+d)
    With bonus crit = x(1 + c +e)

    Equality means (1+c)*(1+d)= 1 + c + e = 1 + c + d + cd
    So e = d + cd

    (and not e = d like your quote suggests)

    It also shows that for equality you need e > d or c = 0.

    P.S: Of course this doesn't take into accounts potential benefits (procs) from added crits (for that we have simcraft), and therefore doesn't discard the rest of your post, it's just a naive demonstration to show an often made misconception where people believe X% added crit is the same as X% added damage.

    However, I have a feeling this glyph is still not worth it. First you also lose damage on corruption while not being to abuse it like you can on Doom. Second is the RPPM mechanic which to me is more about reaction than planning. Third I'm not convinced the 1 or 2 extra imp you may get will outweight a full 20% loss during the fight. And finally, if you miss you're screwed. And it takes a glyph slot. Meh. Maybe tomorrow I'll think about it more.
    Last edited by rezoacken; 2013-03-03 at 09:57 AM.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by rezoacken View Post
    I'm not gonna argue over the rest and I think it's an intresting idea but what I quoted isn't true.

    Basic example:
    If x is your damage, c your base crit chance, d your bonus damage, e your bonus crit
    Base damage (average) = x * (1 + c)
    With bonus damage = x*(1+c)*(1+d)
    With bonus crit = x(1 + c +e)

    Equality means (1+c)*(1+d)= 1 + c + e = 1 + c + d + cd
    So e = d + cd

    (and not e = d like your quote suggests)

    It also shows that for equality you need e > d or c = 0.

    P.S: Of course this doesn't take into accounts potential benefits (procs) from added crits (for that we have simcraft), and therefore doesn't discard the rest of your post, it's just a naive demonstration to show an often made misconception where people believe X% added crit is the same as X% added damage.

    However, I have a feeling this glyph is still not worth it. First you also lose damage on corruption while not being to abuse it like you can on Doom. Second is the RPPM mechanic which to me is more about reaction than planning. Third I'm not convinced the 1 or 2 extra imp you may get will outweight a full 20% loss during the fight. And finally, if you miss you're screwed. And it takes a glyph slot. Meh. Maybe tomorrow I'll think about it more.
    Ah. Yeah. I see what you're saying. You're correct with that statement being wrong.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Undercroft View Post
    It might be more valid to swap to that for council type fights where you have multiple things up for a long period of time (so you can get 2-3 100% crit dooms up at once).
    I fail at math (seriously rezoaken's looks like gibberish to me :P ) though so gonna sit back and let somebody else work out the actual merits of this.

    For single target we'd need the extra imp and doom damage to outweigh the damage we'd lose from that glyph lowering corruption (since we refresh with ToC, it really doesn't benefit at all from the glyph), but i think it might be worth it at least. Gonna wait for a mathy person to come along and do the hard work figuring it out though :P
    Obviously what I'm about to say basically means jack-all as it's only one person's results, but hopefully people can take what I'm about to say with advisement and know that I logged 1 hours of dummy time using both glyph and without glyph using the same methodology.
    (Sadly I can't produce logs because APPARENTLY even though WoW said it was logging, no combat log was produced. JBN:AEJKLTNGA:GKJEANn. The numbers are produced from Skada)

    For the tests I has the following stats, and was self buffed with SP/Stam and was using Grim of Sac.
    • 23,566 SP
    • 10.11% Haste
    • 15% Hit
    • 14.4% crit
    • 16.85% Mastery

    As for the results, The following are the average DPS done over 1 hour against a Raider's Training Dummy with the only equipped trinket being Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen (522).

    Without Glyph: 86 735 DPS
    With Glyph: 88 213 DPS


    I actually had better RNG with the trinket when I didn't have the glyph. My totally subjective opinion is that using not using the glyph lets you do amazing damage if you get lucky with the trinket. Using the glyph smoothes the RNG a bit by allowing a much, much larger window for an optimal refresh with the trinket. I also found that when I was using the glyph, potentially because of the smoothing effect of the glyph, I was swimming in fury for 90% of the time and I was actually using soul fire as my go to fury dump in meta because I would cap if I didn't. (By saving like 6-8 procs of Molten Core going into meta)


    Again these results don't really mean anything conclusive, but it's certainly set in my mind that I'm going to seriously look into making a simcraft APL using the glyph to do some more testing.



    Also if anyone was curious what my damage distribution was like using the glyph and grim of sac. It was around like this:

    Wild Imp 25%
    Touch of Chaos/Soul Fire 25%
    Shadowflame/HoG 25%
    Doom/Corruption 15%
    Shadowbolt 10%


    It was kind of funny seeing an army of Wild Imps around me with this trinket. I'm pretty sure there was a few points where I could've had like 9-10 Imps out at once if I was using Imp Swarm.

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral Zinnin's Avatar
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    Put the glyph into my APL to see the difference. Got ~1k dps loss, however it does smooth out the RNG a little bit. Will keep looking into it.

    Edit: Put a bit more time into the APL and got it to be a very slight DPS gain (under 1k). One of the things I changed was to no longer refresh corruption above 25% with ToC, presumably because you're getting more time out of corruption then normal.

    At 2 targets it is a clear 7k+ DPS gain.
    At 3 targets it is 13k DPS gain.

    As long as your reaction time is quick enough to get at 3 Dooms off in those 4 seconds I would say it is worth looking into.
    Last edited by Zinnin; 2013-03-03 at 04:28 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    Put the glyph into my APL to see the difference. Got ~1k dps loss, however it does smooth out the RNG a little bit. Will keep looking into it.

    Edit: Put a bit more time into the APL and got it to be a very slight DPS gain (under 1k). One of the things I changed was to no longer refresh corruption above 25% with ToC, presumably because you're getting more time out of corruption then normal.

    At 2 targets it is a clear 7k+ DPS gain.
    At 3 targets it is 13k DPS gain.

    As long as your reaction time is quick enough to get at 3 Dooms off in those 4 seconds I would say it is worth looking into.
    Were you using Sacrifice or sup/serv?

    I'm guessing the glyph actually makes Sacrifice a bit better than it was previously in single target since most of the damage gain from using the glyph comes from the extra imps that spawn.

    Can you share your APL?

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 01:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Medieve View Post
    What's the timeline it takes to overcome the loss then? If it takes an hour-long encounter before the glyph pulls ahead, I don't think we'll find it very useful.
    I only did 2 1-hour long tests to try and smooth the RNG on the trinket a bit. I found the glyph to do less damage off the start, but once you got 1 trinket proc and you got up a 3 minute 100% crit doom it pulled ahead very, very quickly.

  7. #7
    Also, another side effect of using the glyph is that (I believe) it lowers the amount of haste required to gain extra ticks (I believe Doom still gains extra ticks anyway)

    If my calculations are correct, the following are doom breakpoints (no buffs):

    7: 8.33%
    8: 24.99%
    9: 41.66%
    10: 58.33%

    which puts the numbers for w/ raid haste at:

    7: 1349
    8: 8094
    9: 14840
    10: 21589

    Getting 2 extra ticks is easily doable with the glyph, which may actually be a haste point we'd want to get as Demo running glyph + trinket.

    Numbers for w/ raid haste & lust:

    7: 0
    8: 0
    9: 1608
    10: 6799
    11: 11987

    I struggle to imagine the insane damage you could get if you have >6799 haste and dark soul and blood lust and the trinket.

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 01:53 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    I'm okay with this being discussed in this thread, but if you guys are going to go in depth on this then it might be a better idea to start a seperate thread to delve into this. It keeps the discussion more focused and prevents you guys from having to surf through 3 pages of this thread to find what people said about this topic previously.
    Would you mind splitting off the posts that are in this thread about the topic off into the thread I just made specifically for it? If not I'll just post them all in quotes or something in the post.

  8. #8
    Bloodsail Admiral Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Thinking a bit further about the consequences of using the glyph, you would have significantly more Wild Imp damage if you used the glyph and the procs were able to be utilized better with Doom, so it may mean that Sac increases in value somewhat if you were to go this route.
    I missed GoSac being an option the first time I went through the sims and it was basically a dps wash, will go through again and post what I get.

    Here is my basic T15H Profile I'm working off of, some of it is personal preference (Imp Swarm for instance isn't a clear gain or loss...I just like using Imp Swarm).

    Code:
    #!./simc 
    
    warlock="Warlock_Demonology_T15H"
    level=90
    race=orc
    spec=demonology
    role=spell
    position=back
    professions=engineering=600/enchanting=600
    talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#VZ!0.0.1.
    glyphs=imp_swarm
    
    # This default action priority list is automatically created based on your character.
    # It is a attempt to provide you with a action list that is both simple and practicable,
    # while resulting in a meaningful and good simulation. It may not result in the absolutely highest possible dps.
    # Feel free to edit, adapt and improve it to your own needs.
    # SimulationCraft is always looking for updates and improvements to the default action lists.
    
    # Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.
    
    actions.precombat=flask,type=warm_sun
    actions.precombat+=/food,type=mogu_fish_stew
    actions.precombat+=/dark_intent,if=!aura.spell_power_multiplier.up
    actions.precombat+=/summon_pet,if=!talent.grimoire_of_sacrifice.enabled|buff.grimoire_of_sacrifice.down
    actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
    actions.precombat+=/grimoire_of_sacrifice,if=talent.grimoire_of_sacrifice.enabled
    #actions.precombat+=/service_pet,if=talent.grimoire_of_service.enabled
    actions.precombat+=/jade_serpent_potion
    
    # Executed every time the actor is available.
    
    #On Pulll
    actions=curse_of_the_elements,if=debuff.magic_vulnerability.down
    actions+=/use_item,name=gloves_of_the_thousandfold_hells,if=buff.dark_soul.up
    actions+=/sequence,name=two:summon_doomguard:hand_of_guldan:imp_swarm:service_pet:corruption:hand_of_guldan:dark_soul:blood_fury:metamorphosis:doom:
    
    #Cooldowns
    actions+=/use_item,name=gloves_of_the_thousandfold_hells
    actions+=/jade_serpent_potion,if=(buff.dark_soul.up&buff.chayes_essence_of_brilliance.up)|(buff.dark_soul.up&target.time_to_die<140)
    actions+=/blood_fury
    actions+=/dark_soul
    actions+=/service_pet,if=talent.grimoire_of_service.enabled
    actions+=/felguard:felstorm
    actions+=/wrathguard:wrathstorm
    actions+=/run_action_list,name=aoe,if=active_enemies>3
    actions+=/summon_doomguard
    actions+=/imp_swarm,if=buff.tempus_repit.up|target.time_to_die<30
    
    #Unerring Vision of Lei Shen 
    actions+=/metamorphosis,line_cd=5,if=buff.perfect_aim.up
    actions+=/doom,cycle_targets=1,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&(ticks_remain+1<n_ticks&buff.perfect_aim.up)
    actions+=/touch_of_chaos,if=buff.perfect_aim.remains>1
    actions+=/cancel_metamorphosis,if=buff.perfect_aim.up
    
    #Single Target Priority
    actions+=/hand_of_guldan,if=dot.shadowflame.remains<4&dot.shadowflame.ticking
    actions+=/touch_of_chaos,cycle_targets=1,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&dot.corruption.ticking&dot.corruption.remains<1.5
    actions+=/doom,if=!ticking
    actions+=/touch_of_chaos,cycle_targets=1,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&dot.corruption.ticking&dot.corruption.remains<20
    actions+=/cancel_metamorphosis,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&buff.dark_soul.down&dot.corruption.remains>25&target.time_to_die>30&cooldown.metamorphosis.remains<2
    actions+=/soul_fire,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&buff.molten_core.react&(buff.dark_soul.remains<action.shadow_bolt.cast_time|buff.dark_soul.remains>cast_time)
    actions+=/touch_of_chaos,if=buff.metamorphosis.up
    actions+=/corruption,cycle_targets=1,if=!ticking&target.time_to_die>=6&miss_react
    actions+=/metamorphosis,if=(buff.dark_soul.up&demonic_fury%32>buff.dark_soul.remains)|dot.corruption.remains<5|!dot.doom.ticking|demonic_fury>=950|demonic_fury%32>target.time_to_die
    actions+=/hand_of_guldan,if=action.hand_of_guldan.charges=2
    actions+=/soul_fire,if=buff.molten_core.react&(buff.dark_soul.remains<action.shadow_bolt.cast_time|buff.dark_soul.remains>cast_time)
    actions+=/life_tap,if=mana.pct<60
    actions+=/shadow_bolt
    actions+=/fel_flame,moving=1
    actions+=/life_tap
    
    actions.aoe=summon_infernal
    actions.aoe+=/cancel_metamorphosis,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&dot.corruption.remains>10&demonic_fury<=650&buff.dark_soul.down&!dot.immolation_aura.ticking
    actions.aoe+=/immolation_aura,if=buff.metamorphosis.up
    actions.aoe+=/void_ray,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&dot.corruption.remains<10
    actions.aoe+=/doom,cycle_targets=1,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&(!ticking|remains<tick_time|(ticks_remain+1<n_ticks&buff.dark_soul.up))&target.time_to_die>=30&miss_react
    actions.aoe+=/void_ray,if=buff.metamorphosis.up
    actions.aoe+=/corruption,cycle_targets=1,if=!ticking&target.time_to_die>30&miss_react
    actions.aoe+=/hand_of_guldan
    actions.aoe+=/metamorphosis,if=dot.corruption.remains<10|buff.dark_soul.up|demonic_fury>=950|demonic_fury%32>target.time_to_die
    actions.aoe+=/hellfire,chain=1,interrupt=1
    actions.aoe+=/life_tap
    
    head=hood_of_the_thousandfold_hells,id=96726,gems=sinister_primal_80int_160crit_180crit,reforge=hit_crit
    neck=necklace_of_the_terracotta_invoker,id=96708,gems=160int_60hit,reforge=haste_crit
    shoulders=mantle_of_the_thousandfold_hells,id=96729,gems=160int_80int_160crit_120haste,enchant=200int_100crit,reforge=haste_mastery
    back=deadly_glare_cape,id=96485,gems=160int_60int,enchant=180int,reforge=haste_mastery
    chest=robes_of_the_thousandfold_hells,id=96728,gems=160int_80int_160crit_80int_160hit_180int,enchant=80all,reforge=hit_crit
    wrists=azure_shell_bracers,id=96432,enchant=170int
    hands=gloves_of_the_thousandfold_hells,id=96725,gems=160int_60int,enchant=170mastery,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
    waist=vitabinder_wrap,id=94996,gems=80int_160hit_80int_160hit_120int,reforge=hit_mastery
    legs=leggings_of_the_discarded_warning,id=95030,gems=160int_80int_160crit_80int_160crit_180mastery,enchant=285int_165crit,reforge=haste_crit
    feet=starwalker_sandals,id=95004,gems=80int_160crit_80int_160hit_120int,enchant=140mastery
    finger1=radens_summoning_band,id=95019,gems=80int_160hit_60int,enchant=160int,reforge=hit_crit
    finger2=jinrokhs_dreamshard,id=96382,enchant=160int,reforge=hit_mastery
    trinket1=chayes_essence_of_brilliance,id=96516
    trinket2=unerring_vision_of_leishen,id=96558
    main_hand=nadagasts_exsanguinator,id=96610,gems=80int_160crit_160int_60int,enchant=jade_spirit
    off_hand=fetish_of_the_hydra,id=96454,gems=80int_160hit_60int,enchant=165int
    
    # Gear Summary
    # gear_strength=80
    # gear_agility=80
    # gear_stamina=26255
    # gear_intellect=21704
    # gear_spirit=80
    # gear_spell_power=10078
    # gear_hit_rating=5084
    # gear_crit_rating=11572
    # gear_haste_rating=3753
    # gear_mastery_rating=5990
    # gear_armor=16154
    # meta_gem=sinister_primal
    # tier15_2pc_caster=1
    # tier15_4pc_caster=1
    # hands=gloves_of_the_thousandfold_hells,heroic=1,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
    # trinket2=unerring_vision_of_leishen,heroic=1
    # main_hand=nadagasts_exsanguinator,heroic=1,weapon=dagger_1.80speed_3002min_5577max,enchant=jade_spirit
    default_pet=felguard
    Last edited by Zinnin; 2013-03-03 at 10:35 PM.

  9. #9
    Well that was an adventure, I'd never used those moderation tools before. Had to look all over to find the place to do it.

    All posts pertaining this subject should be in here now, instead of in the 5.2 thread.
    Your soul shall be mine! ||| Forum rules ||| New England Patriots

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Well that was an adventure, I'd never used those moderation tools before. Had to look all over to find the place to do it.

    All posts pertaining this subject should be in here now, instead of in the 5.2 thread.
    Thanks xskarma

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 02:39 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    I missed GoSac being an option the first time I went through the sims and it was basically a dps wash, will go through again and post what I get.

    Here is my basic T15H Profile I'm working off of, some of it is personal preference (Imp Swarm for instance isn't a clear gain or loss...I just like using Imp Swarm).

    Code:
    #!./simc 
    
    warlock="Warlock_Demonology_T15H"
    level=90
    race=orc
    spec=demonology
    role=spell
    position=back
    professions=engineering=600/enchanting=600
    talents=http://us.battle.net/wow/en/tool/talent-calculator#VZ!0.0.1.
    glyphs=imp_swarm
    
    # This default action priority list is automatically created based on your character.
    # It is a attempt to provide you with a action list that is both simple and practicable,
    # while resulting in a meaningful and good simulation. It may not result in the absolutely highest possible dps.
    # Feel free to edit, adapt and improve it to your own needs.
    # SimulationCraft is always looking for updates and improvements to the default action lists.
    
    # Executed before combat begins. Accepts non-harmful actions only.
    
    actions.precombat=flask,type=warm_sun
    actions.precombat+=/food,type=mogu_fish_stew
    actions.precombat+=/dark_intent,if=!aura.spell_power_multiplier.up
    actions.precombat+=/summon_pet,if=!talent.grimoire_of_sacrifice.enabled|buff.grimoire_of_sacrifice.down
    actions.precombat+=/snapshot_stats
    actions.precombat+=/grimoire_of_sacrifice,if=talent.grimoire_of_sacrifice.enabled
    #actions.precombat+=/service_pet,if=talent.grimoire_of_service.enabled
    actions.precombat+=/jade_serpent_potion
    
    # Executed every time the actor is available.
    
    #On Pulll
    actions=curse_of_the_elements,if=debuff.magic_vulnerability.down
    actions+=/use_item,name=gloves_of_the_thousandfold_hells,if=buff.dark_soul.up
    actions+=/sequence,name=two:summon_doomguard:hand_of_guldan:imp_swarm:service_pet:corruption:hand_of_guldan:dark_soul:blood_fury:metamorphosis:doom:
    
    #Cooldowns
    actions+=/use_item,name=gloves_of_the_thousandfold_hells
    actions+=/jade_serpent_potion,if=(buff.dark_soul.up&buff.chayes_essence_of_brilliance.up)|(buff.dark_soul.up&target.time_to_die<140)
    actions+=/blood_fury
    actions+=/dark_soul
    actions+=/service_pet,if=talent.grimoire_of_service.enabled
    actions+=/felguard:felstorm
    actions+=/wrathguard:wrathstorm
    actions+=/run_action_list,name=aoe,if=active_enemies>3
    actions+=/summon_doomguard
    actions+=/imp_swarm,if=buff.tempus_repit.up|target.time_to_die<30
    
    #Unerring Vision of Lei Shen 
    actions+=/metamorphosis,line_cd=5,if=buff.perfect_aim.up
    actions+=/doom,cycle_targets=1,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&(ticks_remain+1<n_ticks&buff.perfect_aim.up)
    actions+=/touch_of_chaos,if=buff.perfect_aim.remains>1
    actions+=/cancel_metamorphosis,if=buff.perfect_aim.up
    
    #Single Target Priority
    actions+=/hand_of_guldan,if=dot.shadowflame.remains<4&dot.shadowflame.ticking
    actions+=/touch_of_chaos,cycle_targets=1,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&dot.corruption.ticking&dot.corruption.remains<1.5
    actions+=/doom,if=!ticking
    actions+=/touch_of_chaos,cycle_targets=1,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&dot.corruption.ticking&dot.corruption.remains<20
    actions+=/cancel_metamorphosis,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&buff.dark_soul.down&dot.corruption.remains>25&target.time_to_die>30&cooldown.metamorphosis.remains<2
    actions+=/soul_fire,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&buff.molten_core.react&(buff.dark_soul.remains<action.shadow_bolt.cast_time|buff.dark_soul.remains>cast_time)
    actions+=/touch_of_chaos,if=buff.metamorphosis.up
    actions+=/corruption,cycle_targets=1,if=!ticking&target.time_to_die>=6&miss_react
    actions+=/metamorphosis,if=(buff.dark_soul.up&demonic_fury%32>buff.dark_soul.remains)|dot.corruption.remains<5|!dot.doom.ticking|demonic_fury>=950|demonic_fury%32>target.time_to_die
    actions+=/hand_of_guldan,if=action.hand_of_guldan.charges=2
    actions+=/soul_fire,if=buff.molten_core.react&(buff.dark_soul.remains<action.shadow_bolt.cast_time|buff.dark_soul.remains>cast_time)
    actions+=/life_tap,if=mana.pct<60
    actions+=/shadow_bolt
    actions+=/fel_flame,moving=1
    actions+=/life_tap
    
    actions.aoe=summon_infernal
    actions.aoe+=/cancel_metamorphosis,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&dot.corruption.remains>10&demonic_fury<=650&buff.dark_soul.down&!dot.immolation_aura.ticking
    actions.aoe+=/immolation_aura,if=buff.metamorphosis.up
    actions.aoe+=/void_ray,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&dot.corruption.remains<10
    actions.aoe+=/doom,cycle_targets=1,if=buff.metamorphosis.up&(!ticking|remains<tick_time|(ticks_remain+1<n_ticks&buff.dark_soul.up))&target.time_to_die>=30&miss_react
    actions.aoe+=/void_ray,if=buff.metamorphosis.up
    actions.aoe+=/corruption,cycle_targets=1,if=!ticking&target.time_to_die>30&miss_react
    actions.aoe+=/hand_of_guldan
    actions.aoe+=/metamorphosis,if=dot.corruption.remains<10|buff.dark_soul.up|demonic_fury>=950|demonic_fury%32>target.time_to_die
    actions.aoe+=/hellfire,chain=1,interrupt=1
    actions.aoe+=/life_tap
    
    head=hood_of_the_thousandfold_hells,id=96726,gems=sinister_primal_80int_160crit_180crit,reforge=hit_crit
    neck=necklace_of_the_terracotta_invoker,id=96708,gems=160int_60hit,reforge=haste_crit
    shoulders=mantle_of_the_thousandfold_hells,id=96729,gems=160int_80int_160crit_120haste,enchant=200int_100crit,reforge=haste_mastery
    back=deadly_glare_cape,id=96485,gems=160int_60int,enchant=180int,reforge=haste_mastery
    chest=robes_of_the_thousandfold_hells,id=96728,gems=160int_80int_160crit_80int_160hit_180int,enchant=80all,reforge=hit_crit
    wrists=azure_shell_bracers,id=96432,enchant=170int
    hands=gloves_of_the_thousandfold_hells,id=96725,gems=160int_60int,enchant=170mastery,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
    waist=vitabinder_wrap,id=94996,gems=80int_160hit_80int_160hit_120int,reforge=hit_mastery
    legs=leggings_of_the_discarded_warning,id=95030,gems=160int_80int_160crit_80int_160crit_180mastery,enchant=285int_165crit,reforge=haste_crit
    feet=starwalker_sandals,id=95004,gems=80int_160crit_80int_160hit_120int,enchant=140mastery
    finger1=radens_summoning_band,id=95019,gems=80int_160hit_60int,enchant=160int,reforge=hit_crit
    finger2=jinrokhs_dreamshard,id=96382,enchant=160int,reforge=hit_mastery
    trinket1=chayes_essence_of_brilliance,id=96516
    trinket2=unerring_vision_of_leishen,id=96558
    main_hand=nadagasts_exsanguinator,id=96610,gems=80int_160crit_160int_60int,enchant=jade_spirit
    off_hand=fetish_of_the_hydra,id=96454,gems=80int_160hit_60int,enchant=165int
    
    # Gear Summary
    # gear_strength=80
    # gear_agility=80
    # gear_stamina=26255
    # gear_intellect=21704
    # gear_spirit=80
    # gear_spell_power=10078
    # gear_hit_rating=5084
    # gear_crit_rating=11572
    # gear_haste_rating=3753
    # gear_mastery_rating=5990
    # gear_armor=16154
    # meta_gem=sinister_primal
    # tier15_2pc_caster=1
    # tier15_4pc_caster=1
    # hands=gloves_of_the_thousandfold_hells,heroic=1,addon=synapse_springs_mark_ii
    # trinket2=unerring_vision_of_leishen,heroic=1
    # main_hand=nadagasts_exsanguinator,heroic=1,weapon=dagger_1.80speed_3002min_5577max,enchant=jade_spirit
    default_pet=felguard
    Hmm, interesting. This list doesn't have the glyph active, is this the list for normal T15H, or your unerring vision trinket version?

  11. #11
    Bloodsail Admiral Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Well that was an adventure, I'd never used those moderation tools before. Had to look all over to find the place to do it.

    All posts pertaining this subject should be in here now, instead of in the 5.2 thread.
    Appreciate it.

    So switching to GoSac changed my DPS output by literally like 100 dps. The DPS Distribution is totally more centered though, it is still as large as not using it, but more centered with less on the outliers.

    I'm going to generate a list with 502 versions to heroic versions to see if the difference changes with the different proc amounts for the different ilvl versions of it. The heroic version I'm using in this profile is a bit less RNG then the other ones.
    Last edited by Zinnin; 2013-03-03 at 10:44 PM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    Appreciate it.

    So switching to GoSac changed my DPS output by literally like 100 dps. The DPS Distribution is totally more centered though, it is still as large as not using it, but more centered with less on the outliers.

    I'm going to generate a list with 502 versions to heroic versions to see if the difference changes with the different proc amounts for the different ilvl versions of it. The heroic version I'm using in this profile is a bit less RNG then the other ones.
    If I had to guess the glyph only gets better with the lower ilevels of the trinket as it has a much larger window of optimum refreshings.

    When you used gosac, was it in gsac's favor or was gosac still behind?

  13. #13
    Bloodsail Admiral Zinnin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    If I had to guess the glyph only gets better with the lower ilevels of the trinket as it has a much larger window of optimum refreshings.
    Yea, this is my thoughts on it as well.

    When you used gosac, was it in gsac's favor or was gosac still behind?
    GoSac and GoServ are nearly identical in every sim I run, with GoServ having the slight lead. GoSac will be an option, but it isn't one that I suggest using because of the loss of fel storm. I did do some quick checks with GoSac at the start of DS and using DR to get your pet back out at the end, and was a dps increase but only by like 800dps, so might be something worth looking into.

    Another thing thing I'm toying with (this threat might just become a simcraft idea dump) is gearing for the HoG haste point. Crit gets pretty devalued using this trinket and it might be worth going for it.
    Last edited by Zinnin; 2013-03-03 at 11:20 PM.

  14. #14
    The Patient Kaizers's Avatar
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    This is some pretty interesting stuff, I def plan on using demo for certain fights.

  15. #15
    Bloodsail Admiral Zinnin's Avatar
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    That is my list for t15h with unerring vision Brusalk, it is what I change from when testing things.
    Last edited by Zinnin; 2013-03-03 at 11:49 PM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    Yea, this is my thoughts on it as well.


    GoSac and GoServ are nearly identical in every sim I run, with GoServ having the slight lead. GoSac will be an option, but it isn't one that I suggest using because of the loss of fel storm. I did do some quick checks with GoSac at the start of DS and using DR to get your pet back out at the end, and was a dps increase but only by like 800dps, so might be something worth looking into.

    Another thing thing I'm toying with (this threat might just become a simcraft idea dump) is gearing for the HoG haste point. Crit gets pretty devalued using this trinket and it might be worth going for it.
    Hmm, interesting idea not using GoSac 100% of the time and having the fel-guard out for felstorm when you're not in DS. Have you considered trying out imp-swarm + gosac for DS and saving gosac for as long as possible, and only resummoning right before the buff falls off to try and get the most imp damage you can?

    Or actually... If you have GoSac on when imps are summoned, do they retain the damage buff from GoSac for as long as they're alive, or do they update dynamically with the GoSac buff. I know they update with stats but I'm not sure how they'd interact with GoSac.


    Also, it is extremely fun to have the Felguard's Pursuit with command demon. Between Pursuit and Demonic Leap I feel like a ranged warrior sometimes :P

    ---------- Post added 2013-03-03 at 04:01 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    Yea, this is my thoughts on it as well.


    GoSac and GoServ are nearly identical in every sim I run, with GoServ having the slight lead. GoSac will be an option, but it isn't one that I suggest using because of the loss of fel storm. I did do some quick checks with GoSac at the start of DS and using DR to get your pet back out at the end, and was a dps increase but only by like 800dps, so might be something worth looking into.

    Another thing thing I'm toying with (this threat might just become a simcraft idea dump) is gearing for the HoG haste point. Crit gets pretty devalued using this trinket and it might be worth going for it.
    As for the HoG breakpoint, I'd imagine it'd be more worth it to go for extra ticks with Doom than HoG, but looking at my spreadsheet, Doom (Everlasting) and HoG actually have extremely close breakpoints to each other. At every tick breakpoint Doom requires slightly more rating than HoG, but even all the way out at +16 ticks Doom isn't more than 200 rating more than the HoG breakpoint.

    (Here's my updated DoT/HoT haste calculation spreadsheet that includes Doom with everlasting affliction. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...01NZElVUEE&usp)

  17. #17
    Bloodsail Admiral Zinnin's Avatar
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    Yea, with EA glyph and shadowflame breakpoints being so close on top of crit being devalued I have a feeling we will be going for it.

    Some of this gear on this least doesn't seem to actually exist. Like nadagast's weapon, isn't on any boss list? IDK.

    Edit: Everything I try on single target it's nearly identical on single target, with a gain on multiple targets. However the gear list isn't going for the haste point yet because dealing with gear with text lines gives me a headache.
    Last edited by Zinnin; 2013-03-04 at 01:11 AM.

  18. #18
    *takes note*

    I0've to admit tha tthe GoSac expoeriment may ends in a very tiny dps loss so its like "10 out of 13 boses i go pet, i love my felguard. on 3 bosses i've damage increase bonuses....SOULLLLLFFFAAAAAIIIIAAAAHHHHH"

    Anyway, brillant work with your testing, EA glyph and the lolcrit trinket testing, our 3 target multidot looks like out of control if its going to be confirmed.

    Are there any fight where we can effectivelky cleave 2 or 3 target staning close to eachothers? didn't follow the ptr testing at all, just wondering.

  19. #19
    idk i tried that trinket on ptr n u would be surprised how much dmg those fkin imps do... my imps were doing 21% of my dmg xD

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brusalk View Post
    Also, another side effect of using the glyph is that (I believe) it lowers the amount of haste required to gain extra ticks (I believe Doom still gains extra ticks anyway)

    If my calculations are correct, the following are doom breakpoints (no buffs):

    7: 8.33%
    8: 24.99%
    9: 41.66%
    10: 58.33%

    which puts the numbers for w/ raid haste at:

    7: 1349
    8: 8094
    9: 14840
    10: 21589

    Getting 2 extra ticks is easily doable with the glyph, which may actually be a haste point we'd want to get as Demo running glyph + trinket.

    Numbers for w/ raid haste & lust:

    7: 0
    8: 0
    9: 1608
    10: 6799
    11: 11987

    I struggle to imagine the insane damage you could get if you have >6799 haste and dark soul and blood lust and the trinket.
    Any idea what the breakpoint numbers would look like troll berserking? It seems like quite a few people I know are inclined to race change troll.

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