1. #1

    Is ask Mr robot accurate for unholy? Telling me to use 320 haste gems ect

    Heres my profile on Askmrrobot http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/e...nor/sorrowbane

    Im not sure if this is accurate or not, for yellows its telling me use use 320 haste gems for yellow (quick) and haste/hit for blue sockets (lightening) and for Red, 160 haste/80 str (fierce).

    So i thought id come here and ask some of the more experienced among you whether i can trust this or not?

    cheers lads.

  2. #2
    Assuming stat weights didn't shift significantly for 5.3, then yes, haste is still usually going to give you the best bang for your buck when gemming for unholy. (assuming you aren't already over 8k haste)

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Antefex View Post
    Heres my profile on Askmrrobot http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/e...nor/sorrowbane

    Im not sure if this is accurate or not, for yellows its telling me use use 320 haste gems for yellow (quick) and haste/hit for blue sockets (lightening) and for Red, 160 haste/80 str (fierce).

    So i thought id come here and ask some of the more experienced among you whether i can trust this or not?

    cheers lads.
    No, use strength gems. Find a comfortable level of haste (for most people, it's anywhere above 8k) and then go straight strength.

    I'd try and find more pieces with haste on them, your gear isn't that well itemized.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Mr Robot is perfectly accurate, the problem lies in how someone uses it.
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  5. #5
    Sry if this comes across as a silly question, but why 8k+ haste? i take it its something to do with rune regeneration? im still learning. And if im not at 8k haste, should i gem 320 haste gems as recommended by Mr Robot?

  6. #6
    The default stat weights used by AskMrRobot are very unlikely to be right for you, equally unless you run a Sim yourself with AMS Soaking factored in then the value provided won't be accurate unless you never soak RP using AMS which is DK 101 stuff.

    The TLDR for the lazy or uninterested in all this is that gemming straight Haste is very unlikely to result in a DPS gain in the real world unless you ignore AMS. What most players this tier are doing are running straight STR reds with STR/Haste Oranges because the value of Haste falls off once you factor in soaking RP via AMS.

    In saying that though there is DK on my server running straight Haste who's ranking like a boss in Heroic ToT.
    http://www.wow-heroes.com/character/eu/Ghostlands/Fyhr/

    Nothing is gospel and mileage may vary.

  7. #7
    Mechagnome Italiandk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antefex View Post
    Sry if this comes across as a silly question, but why 8k+ haste? i take it its something to do with rune regeneration? im still learning. And if im not at 8k haste, should i gem 320 haste gems as recommended by Mr Robot?
    8k it's just a random number, don't give a credit to it.

    You should gem strength in red sockets, strength+haste in yellow sockets and strength+hit in blue sockets; this may vary according to the socket bonus and/or if you are already well over hit cap (Feather+Zerat it's a easy way to overcap it).
    Death Knight -> Italiandk
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    Monk -> Skadoosh
    Mage -> Icydeath

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Antefex View Post
    Sry if this comes across as a silly question, but why 8k+ haste? i take it its something to do with rune regeneration? im still learning. And if im not at 8k haste, should i gem 320 haste gems as recommended by Mr Robot?
    8k Haste with Runic Corruption is just under GCD cap with average RNG and average AMS soaking, depending on how often you Scourge Strike vs. Festering Strike. I'd recommend probably 80 str/160haste in yellow and red sockets.

    The DK mentioned by Kronik only has Frost ranks as gemming haste as Frost is still perfectly viable.

    Like I mentioned, 8k is an average and approximate number and whatever amount of haste you feel comfortable with is fine.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Italiandk View Post
    Mr Robot is perfectly accurate, the problem lies in how someone uses it.
    Truth.

    If you tell it Haste is worth XYZ, and XYZ is x2 the amount of Strength, then math would dictate that 320 Haste is better, no?

    The thing to factor in is that you can get free runic power from AMS every so often, and that gives you more to do, which makes haste not as important. It's still a safe bet to do str/haste gems (or mastery, if you're 1h). It rarely is a bad idea :P

  10. #10
    Currently some sims indicate that crit is superior to strength and haste at specific gear levels. Does that mean you should gem crit? Here are my thoughts.

    Just like 2h, we could gem haste. However, like frost, this is only optimal under a very specific situation: pure patchwerk. Movement, ams soaking, adds, player stuns, and other things greatly diminish the effect of haste. I would not suggest anything but strength and socket matching hybrid gems for unholy. Even the most patchwerk fight this tier, jinrokh, has ams soaking that diminishes haste by alot.

    Ask Mr Robot takes stat weights from a source I presume and multiplies it by the amount of stats to find out what gear is "better" in a patchwerk encounter. This is why they say haste, it isn't wrong, but it isn't practical. ( Assuming they got their stat weights right which is actually hard to discern without a source).

    Talking a bit more about unholy and the topics discussed in this thread, gearing at higher levels of gear is very debated.

    Some tend to say, go to "~9k" then go crit. Some like to stack haste beyond 9k. Its mostly preference but there are good points for each side. In BiS gear, (~11k haste) we sim out with somewhere around 10% time spent waiting for resources. It really is preference because some people "like" the time spent waiting or find it easier to play. To each their own.

    Haste gearing has grants more rppm trinket procs. With a little bit of luck, will give great dps gains. Getting good procs during damage buff phases can result in high dps through stacking of procs and cds. Also as stated above, it reduces time spent waiting.

    Crit gearing has great single target festerblight and aoe dps since diseases do not scale with haste.

  11. #11
    I had this issue to start with, It was telling me to use raw haste and hit gems (despite me being at 7.7% hit), I went into the stat weights and clicked around a little and updated everything then boom, sensible suggestions
    Whoops, sig too big

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans Varyk's Avatar
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    No, you'll want to gem Strength.

    Crit does surpass haste at a certain point, but not Strength.

  13. #13
    Herald of the Titans Darkfriend's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fangless View Post
    Truth.

    If you tell it Haste is worth XYZ, and XYZ is x2 the amount of Strength, then math would dictate that 320 Haste is better, no?

    The thing to factor in is that you can get free runic power from AMS every so often, and that gives you more to do, which makes haste not as important. It's still a safe bet to do str/haste gems (or mastery, if you're 1h). It rarely is a bad idea :P
    The thing to consider is that stat weights for gear isn't always the same value as that on gear. Example, although a piece of gear with haste/crit may be slightly lower item level, if the SEP of the haste/crit is higher than that of the slightly higher pieces stats and the strength difference, the lower ilvl, better itemized piece would actually be better.

    The thing with gems is that, within the constraints of meeting socket bonuses, you have some freedom to gem. Thus, when it's a choice between 160 strength, and 320 haste, more than just flat SEP needs to come into play.

    Now, if there was a way for Sim-C or other sims to separate SEP of secondary stats on gear, and that of gems, it would get a lot easier. But DK's are probably the only class where this happens. Partially because there isn't a "hard and fast" haste breakpoint, partially because AMS soaking is going to vary by person and raid team, effectively raising and lowering haste's value in relation to other stats and strength.

    TL;DR, not all stat weights are equal.

  14. #14
    The Lightbringer NatePsychotic's Avatar
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    I gem for worthwhile socket bonuses with str+hit, str+haste or just straight str depending on the socket color, I would never gem straight haste and I don't tend to follow AskMrRobot like it was some bible, I only use it as a little reference for gear.

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