Explain to me again how mana matters at this point.Yep, being able to do that without an increased mana cost (crit) sounds quite awesome to me.
And playstyle. And enjoyment. Why would I want to cast long, slow heals when I can speed them up and come out in about the same place?Here's the catch, you don't chose between haste and nothing, you chose between haste and stronger heals.
You are the one who made the statement (and you'll remember I -asked- for clarification to make sure that -wasn't- what you you intended to say, and you -confirmed- that was it) that people who actually see the encounters know nothing about gearing, and cannot judge for themselves what their stat weights should be, nor can they judge for themselves what stat weights work for them. THAT is insulting if I ever heard it."Spreadsheet warriors" and I'm being insulting. Yes, for people who are unable to or just can't be arsed (if you feel that you and everyone else who don't theorycraft are stupid/idiotic, so be it) it's great that some people go through the trouble of doing said math. From personal experience it's also significantly more common that people who raid at a high level and see the encounters theorycraft.
Math is nice, but it is not the be-all and end-all. It's a great starting point. But what works on paper does not necessarily work in the real world.
I'm pretty sure I mentioned...at least once or twice before...that I have a Holy offspec that sees a lot of use (I actually do more as Holy than as Disc at the moment). I already had 1 extra cast of SS, but in my mind, because I use Holy so often, it was worth it (to me) to forge to get the Lightwell breakpoint (which makes up a surprising amount of healing on bosses when I am Holy). The side benefit of having faster casts (which is a playstyle I enjoy) on my hard-cast spells was also a consideration. The moment that I started using the 4717 breakpoint (encompassing the Lightwell breakpoint, as well as ensuring one extra cast of SS without PI/BL), I saw a jump in my performance in raid. As I've gotten more gear, I've been seriously considering pushing for the higher haste breakpoints, which is why I was messing with my gems today.Are there mastery breakpoints as well since you were gemming for that before? Not that there are many haste breakpoints that are particularly valuable for disc (and how do you even know those? Are you just "feeling" them?). What are you using the "spare" stats that you get from the leeway on that's so incredibly cruical?
Now, if you want to know where I get my haste breakpoints, I'm sure if you have google you can google the word "haste breakpoints" and "spirit Shell haste breakpoints" and you'll find a plethora of information about where they are for each class. There are also breakpoints that ensure you get a certain amount of casts when PI is up, or when Heroism/BL is up.
As far as "Mastery" goes, no, there are no "breakpoints." I simply had enough excess stats to get to the Haste breakpoint that I was previously reaching for while maintaining a comfortable (for me) level of Mastery. Now I have more stats, and Mastery coming out of my ears, so I'm re-evaluating. You know, testing. The only thing I didn't want to do was drop below 20% Mastery in Holy spec, as Echo of Light makes up a surprisingly large amount of my healing.
Thank you. After 6 years of playing WoW, I truly had no idea that if I increased my gear level, I would get more stats. Your wisdom is truly breathtaking. Even for you.Since you increase every stat from getting new gear I was hoping that this'd be obvious even for you, apparently I was wrong. Excluding that there's only gemming.
I'm assuming you were armory creeping? I'm not done with my changes. So the answer is "neither."So where's this magic balance for you? What do you base it on? "Feeling"? "Feeling" is telling you that 22385 int and 5807 haste is superior to 22305 int and 5967 haste?
It's close enough to make judgements in the general sense. Especially when the change in performance was dramatic enough. I know when I'm playing like shit. I don't look at a fight where I know that I have made huge mistakes and try to say, "Welp, this proves that Crit doesn't work for me." I look at fights where I felt I was playing my best, and compare them that way.Do you actually think that every fight plays out exactly the same every week? That every person has exactly the same position, uses exactly the same spells, crits, dodges and parries exactly the same spells/attacks? That every single player plays just as well every time? Every single fight has huge variations hence it's useless to compare the performance like you do.
So...basically...the majority of the spells we cast. I...struggle to understand how those are "filler" spells.In short, a spell without a cd.
In a 25 man, extra casts of Spirit Shell, for one, are extremely valuable. It's not the same as in a 10 man situation, where you're likely to cap out very quickly. One cast of Spirit Shell on a party doesn't really absorb very much, but when you can layer it more than once...Yes, in this case smite is almost twice as quick while healing just as much. In the context of haste vs crit/mastery/int, when is it so much better to cast X haste rating quicker than for your heals to hit X crit/mastery/int harder?
I guess because I didn't spreadsheet the encounters, actual numbers are meaningless and full of worthless emotion. :-\Ah yes, that magic feeling.
I never - not once - said that about my group. It was a general statement about issues that ANY healer may encounter in their raid. Did I - even once - say, "In my guild Demise, we have this, this, and this problem"? No. You are, once again, assuming. As you seem to do repeatedly when responding to me.This is what you said about your grp and what I responded to:
These are your words and the ones I responded to. By my standard people who can't do fights as they are supposed to be done are shit, if you'd use a different word that's up to you but we're refering to the same thing.
"Valid," to me, is when the difference between stat priorities is so small that it has no real bearing on the fight. Put another way, people are not robots and will make mistakes regardless of their stat priorities. I have yet to see Crit pull out so far ahead of Haste and Mastery that it could not be attributed to player skill.What is valid? Gearing one way (for one specific fight!) will always be superior to another, two ways are never exactly the same (or there wouldn't even be a point of different stats).
Because what you see in your spreadsheet is not what I see when I'm actually playing the game. The difference between gearing for Crit and Mastery vs. Haste and Crit vs. Mastery and Haste are so small in actual practice that it makes a lot more sense to advise healers of what each does, what advantages each has, which fights cater to which stat priorities, etc, than to say, "This is the one and only stat priority that you can use. If you use anything else, you're just bad and wrong and you will heal for less." Because, the thing is, I don't heal for less when I gear for Haste and Mastery vs. Crit. And yes, I have tested it myself in game and looked at logs of myself using different stat priorities. I have also talked to other Priests who have done the same thing.Yes it makes a difference. The difference is slight but it exists. If one way is superior, even by a small margin, why wouldn't you use it? There are several ways to gear for a boss, but only one that's optimal. Why wouldn't you use it? Why would some person magically perform better with a stat combination that gives less healing? Are there a ton of shadowpriests who'd perform better by reforging all out of haste as well? Why is that different?
Slow. Sloooooooow. Slow. Sloooooooow. Among other things. I've already explained the rest. You just choose to reject the explanation. You're going to keep arguing because for you, your spreadsheet is god. For me, the raid encounter dictates what I gem, enchant, and reforge.What player/role/size/strat/members favor haste over crit gearing? Please tell me, cause I have no clue. How does gearing for crit instead of haste change your playstyle/make you enjoy the game less by a significant amount?
If they can't read for comprehension and instead choose to assume things, that isn't my fault. Sorry.So when several people interpret the thing you type in a certain way your go-to response is that it's their fault?
I worked in customer service for quite some time. If I had treated a customer half as badly as you treated me in certain instances (specifically the point where you suggested that my playstyle was "retarded" because you assumed it was so), I would have been fired.Have you ever been in contact with a customer?:P I haven't called you names. I have stated that you don't understand things, which is true, so yes I'm being blunt (which I already admitted). It's hard to avoid that someone feels a bit put down when you have to explain that they don't understand what they are talking about.
I do, but I disagree with your interpretation. Your spreadsheet isn't the Bible.Yes, as stated you don't understand how stat weights work.
When you state that you can't think of any way I could possibly be getting different numbers from what you say SHOULD be the numbers unless I am using a retarded playstyle, yes.I called a playstyle that I brought up to illustrate something retarded and you think it's aimed at you?
I found it insulting. I'm sorry if you play this game for something other than fun. *shrugs*You have repeatedly written things that many would interpret (I'm sure you mean something else entirely, right?:P) as gearing for haste/mastery making the game significantly more fun for you. Since I find that statement incredibly amusing I exaggerated it slightly, I understand that this is insanely hurtful for you (<-not even sure if that's an exaggeration)
No, I did not. I'm going to C&P my previous response to this:You were the one who described your guildies as inferior/bad in several regards and it's a huge leap for me to call them shit?:P
I never - not once - said that about my group. It was a general statement about issues that ANY healer may encounter in their raid. Did I - even once - say, "In my guild Demise, we have this, this, and this problem"? No. You are, once again, assuming. As you seem to do repeatedly when responding to me.
It's also rather impossible to factor in individual playstyles and reactions. But yes, as you stated yourself, it's pretty much impossible to factor in other players. So yes, while on paper, your words are absolutely correct, in an actual encounter, depending on the players involved, it may not bear out.Yes, if you can factor in all relevant things math will tell you the correct answer to everything (that it's pretty much impossible is another matter). It's practically impossible to factor in *X player fucking up* but in general anything that forces you to pay attention to other things will lower hastes comparative value to crit.
I'm sorry, could you restate this? I'm not 100% sure what the question is. I think it's missing parts.Do you claim that if a factor is so obscure that you can't math it's impact your "feeling" will do a better job at telling you which stat it affects?
And it's a great place to start. But it isn't the be-all and end-all of healing. Nor is it always 100% correct in every single situation.Obviously playing properly will have a far bigger impact than anything else for a healer. This is however something that math helps you do. Using math that's already been done for you to determine your gearing is a healing increase for almost no effort at all.