brewmaster: exact haste rating needed for 13.33 energy regen

[darkwarrior42]

That is factually untrue. If you put the expertise into haste you will achieve a higher chi generation.

Statistically higher, but less reliable. Nothing sucks more than having a keg smash and two jabs parried in a row because you're not expertise capped, and then you don't have the chi you need to guard/purify.

Even if it's a rarity, when (not if) such things happen, I don't blame chance or fate; I blame the player (ie myself) who deliberately chose not to cap expertise and to instead rely on luck.

(If there was a spec that used literally zero crit and had no chance to crit, but was appropriately compensated, I'd play that spec in a heartbeat without any hesitation.)

[The Madgod]

Statistically higher, but less reliable. Nothing sucks more than having a keg smash and two jabs parried in a row because you're not expertise capped, and then you don't have the chi you need to guard/purify.

Even if it's a rarity, when (not if) such things happen, I don't blame chance or fate; I blame the player (ie myself) who deliberately chose not to cap expertise and to instead rely on luck.

(If there was a spec that used literally zero crit and had no chance to crit, but was appropriately compensated, I'd play that spec in a heartbeat without any hesitation.)

Exactly why the expertise cap is fluid, because everyone has a different tolerance point for misfires and everyone has a different level of ability to handle those misfires without significant incident

[dementedlogic]

I never mentioned chi generation as a factor that plays into expertise or hit. I mentioned that hit and expertise are the single best stats one can take for survival and dps. For DPS no one can argue that haste is superior to anything but mastery. For survival consistency is the thing which matters most as a tank. Daught as well as a couple of other monks on this very forum has confirmed this by stating reasons why the tank legendary is terrible, why the rune of re-origination is situational at best, and why expertise sub 15% is simply a poor decision. You have to plan around the worst case scenario, you can't plan on all of your increased haste attacks landing, and as a result you bring an additional element of RNG in to an already high RNG scenario, intentionally.

This is setting aside the fact that one of the primary (if not THE reason, for fights like Lei Shen) monks are brought are for their stupid damage capabilities as tanks. For survival mastery > crit > haste, for dps crit > haste > mastery.

It's been proven, time and time again, through spreadsheets, simulators (thinking of the brewmaster ss and simulator by Venyasure) as well as a number of high end monks who have already cleared content that expertise is a gain in fluidity of your rotation, dps, and consistency (which is huge as a tank). You are setting yourself up to fail by prioritizing haste above hit, expertise, or crit. The only argument in hastes favor post 5.2 is over mastery, which isn't a survival gain, but a modest dps boost with some survival impact through chi and eb generation.

[The Madgod]

Its also known that due to the plethora of factors involved (including haste levels, one's own skill, timing, etc), the likelihood of not capping expertise resulting in a catastrophic failure is negligible. Even if you get a string of misses you aren't necessarily going to have a catastrophic failure of your active mitigation.

If you want to talk actual numbers crit is our best mitigation stat and mastery is our best EH stat. If you want to talk consistency, then expertise is top.

The extremely vast majority of the time, a lack of expertise is simply a minor annoyance for a semi-competent brewmaster, nothing more.

What you are using expertise to prevent is something which is statistically insignificant, therefore impractical. The practical use of expertise is to smooth out your priority, to get rid of those minor annoyances that pop up every now and then.

This is not to say that you shouldn't try for the hard cap, or that it's bad to go for the hard cap. With the item budget on gear nowadays it's easy to get hard cap and still get a healthy amount of haste, crit, and mastery. Hell I prefer the hard cap since I don't really like those minor annoyances and enjoy a fluid priority. However, it is not REQUIRED of brewmasters to do this and if they do decide to stop at a point lower than 15% they are NOT inherently doing it wrong. I have seen PLENTY of brewmasters who are extremely successful who did not decide to get to the hard cap.

[Chuupag]

I feel like we've had this discussion several times before...it's like deja vu all over again Mad, isn't it?

[The Madgod]

I feel like we've had this discussion several times before...it's like deja vu all over again Mad, isn't it?

Little bit

[Radio]

I see people underestimating crit as a mitigation stat all the time, with T15 2 set you're increasing the uptime on 30% dodge AND a ~12,000 mastery buff. At 13.7k crit I can pop a 15 stack EB and expect to have 10-15 stacks waiting for me when the 15 seconds is up fairly consistently. Ever since I reached my current crit threshold and got my 2/4 pieces I feel almost invincible except for occasional spikes when add tanking.

[Hinalover]

For the math that the OP is looking for:

13.3333 / 1.1 [ox stance] = 12.1212121212 hasted regen
12.121212121 - 10 [base energy] = 2.121212
2.12121212 * .1 = 21.2121212% haste
21.212121212% * 42500 ~= 9016 haste rating.

With Ascension

13.333 / 1.1 [ox stance] / 1.15 [Ascension] = 10.540184453227931488801054018446 hasted regen
10.540184453227931488801054018446 - 10 = 0.540184453227931488801054018446
0.540184453227931488801054018446 * .1 = 5.4018445322793148880105401844585% haste
5.4018445322793148880105401844585% * 42500 ~= 2296 haste rating.