Envenom Uptime

[Nocuous]

Thanks Himit. I know you are busy with being an officer in the guild and stuff in RL. Been trying to figure out the 20% the last couple weeks and thought it was probably easier to come here and post. Appreciate the detail in your response

[Crookids]

Snipet

2% is a large difference. I am not sure what level of raiding you are in, but a 3% uptime difference can mean a 2 spot difference vs another Rogue and the diifference between finishing 5th - 6th over 1st or 2nd on meters.

Also, I disagree about anticipation--I find it invuable to stack CBs. One situation which is failed to mention is when you have Rultures and Emvenom running at the same time difference which happens more often than you think. Meaning your Rupture and Envenom will expre at the same time. With stacked points you can renew rupture then be able to immediately put up Envenom. Worst case you will need to apply only 1 more Mutilate. Stacking allows me to maintain 71%+ up times.

[shadowboy]

2% is less than the difference between good RNG and bad RNG. Within the gap of RNG is not a lot.

[Lunareste]

The difference between 70% Envenom uptime and 50% uptime is way more than 2%, lol.

[shadowboy]

If you believe that, then you overvalue the contribution of the envenom buff to your dps.

Let's say you do 150,000 dps and at 50% envenom buff, 27.5% of that is DP-I, that means your DP-I damage is 41250 dps. Increasing envenom buff from 50% to 70% uptime would increase your DP-I dps from 41250 dps to 43402 dps. Going from 50% to 70% uptime net you a gain of 1.4% DPS.

*where numbers come from, 27.5% is pretty close to what DP-I will do for assassination. Envenom buff increases DP-I damage by 30% during the buff, so 50% uptime is a 15% increase in DP-I damage. 70% uptime is a 21% increase in DP-I damage. 41250 / 1.15 * 1.21 = 43402.

[Refrakt]

let say if SnD & Rupture is up with good time remaining. Envenom is going to fall off. Do u envenom it to refresh it even it is without 4-5Cp?

[Tisha]

High envenom uptime is not achieved by doing envenoms with less than 5 cp. It is achieved by delaying envenom slightly and taking the opportunity to pool energy if you already have the buff, and you are not in danger of energy or cp/anticipation capping.

[Bromosapien]

Optimal Opener: (ShadowStep) Ambush + 1 or 2 Mutilates (If you get a 3 pt Mutilate, put a 5 pt rupture up | If 2 pt, Mutilate again, put the 5 pt rupture up and use the anticipated pts for SnD)...The super amazing RNG opener is a 2 pt ambush 3 pt mutilate and a dispatch proc > 5 pt rupture, dispatch and put snd up.

Keeping Debuffs up: Having something easily visible to track your envenom and ruptures is extremely important. The ideal cast time is a 4-5pt envenom (4 only when you dont have envenom up and you are low on energy with 4 pts) around .5-1s left on your envenom. The same applies to rupture, but I tend to rarely put up a 4 pt rupture, only because it throws me out of sync.

Redirect: Many rogues do not think of using this spell too much unless something is about to die and they want to save their points. This is a 1 minute CD, and for fights like Lei Shen, Horridon, Council, and sometimes Tortos, it came give you a DPS gain. You can take a 5 pt rupture redirect it to an add/other boss and have 2 ruptures up at once. This will give you double the energy ticks and allow you to build more combo pts or even put out more dispatches if sub 35%.

If you'd like more tips, feel free to ask. I am on Mal'ganis - Bromosapien <Vigil>.

[Fluorescent0]

Optimal Opener: (ShadowStep) Ambush + 1 or 2 Mutilates (If you get a 3 pt Mutilate, put a 5 pt rupture up | If 2 pt, Mutilate again, put the 5 pt rupture up and use the anticipated pts for SnD)...The super amazing RNG opener is a 2 pt ambush 3 pt mutilate and a dispatch proc > 5 pt rupture, dispatch and put snd up.

Nope, putting up slice and dice as fast as possible is better than putting rupture up.

Keeping Debuffs up: Having something easily visible to track your envenom and ruptures is extremely important. The ideal cast time is a 4-5pt envenom (4 only when you dont have envenom up and you are low on energy with 4 pts) around .5-1s left on your envenom. The same applies to rupture, but I tend to rarely put up a 4 pt rupture, only because it throws me out of sync.

Nope, the lost energy and damage from using a 4 point finisher instead of a 5 point finisher does not get balanced by more envenom uptime. In the past we only used 4 combopoint envenoms because we didn't have anticipation and therefore we would have been losing too many combopoints from mutilating at 4. (reason why when we used backstab we only did 5 combo points finishers)

Redirect: Many rogues do not think of using this spell too much unless something is about to die and they want to save their points. This is a 1 minute CD, and for fights like Lei Shen, Horridon, Council, and sometimes Tortos, it came give you a DPS gain. You can take a 5 pt rupture redirect it to an add/other boss and have 2 ruptures up at once. This will give you double the energy ticks and allow you to build more combo pts or even put out more dispatches if sub 35%.

Correct, but this is only if the damage on the secondary target is important. It's been calculated to be something in the range of a 100 DPS gain on your main target when done perfectly, and a severe loss if any mistake occurs.

[Bromosapien]

Nope, putting up slice and dice as fast as possible is better than putting rupture up.

You have proof of this? Your guild logs must be private or non-existant since your WoW Heros are empty and do not appear on any rankings? Starting up the free energy ticks and venomous wounds > 3 seconds of Snd that will not even have an Envenom or CDs up.

Also the 4 pt envenoms mostly go out when Renataki will fall before you can put out a 5 pt. As I said, this along with the rupture do not occur very often, but it is viable.

[Fluorescent0]

You have proof of this? Your guild logs must be private or non-existant since your WoW Heros are empty and do not appear on any rankings? Starting up the free energy ticks and venomous wounds > 3 seconds of Snd that will not even have an Envenom or CDs up.

Sim it yourself and you'll see it. But no, except for our Lei Shen and Ra'den kills this week our logs aren't private, and I never heard of that site before.

Also the 4 pt envenoms mostly go out when Renataki will fall before you can put out a 5 pt. As I said, this along with the rupture do not occur very often, but it is viable.

Except you never mentioned Renataki on your post, and even then waiting to Envenom at 5 combopoints when the maximum agility bonus is active will probably yield the best results (not sure, should test)

[Bromosapien]

I never heard of that site before.

http://www.wow-heroes.com/
A feature of the site takes rankings of the character name by searching through the ranks on world of logs. If the character searched has a current ranking on any fights, it will show it there. Quite useful since you cannot search individual players on the world of logs site.

[Kael]

Frankly speaking, logs/rankings won't tell you if SnD or rupture is ahead in an opener. The difference between them should be about the same as having another buff line up for a few seconds, a few more crits, or some other such very small factor. If you want to see the math on it, Bromo, see Assassination: the Nitty Gritty, I want to say around page 10, with simcraft results/discussion.