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  1. #1

    The 9th Raid Buff

    Hello fellow raiders

    So what i propose is a 5% raid wide movement speed buff - which doesn't stack with other passives and talents (but with boot enchants). What this will do is: The slowest members of the raid will receive a slight movement speed increase.

    Just a tidbit here - calling the DK version of the buff 'Unholy Aura' would be an awesome throwback to WC3. (idk if dks have an ability actually called unholy aura atm, please go easy on me)

    So in short:
    - New Raid Buff: 5% Movement speed increase
    - Priests and DKs provide it (can't think of a third class atm)

    I would like to hear everyone's opinions on this kind of buff.


    Edit: Added for continuity for the next 3 posts; my previous iteration of my post included my shortcomings on the Ji-Kun encounter - which was not intended to be purpose of this post.
    Last edited by worcester; 2013-05-25 at 12:12 PM. Reason: Deleted alot of things irrelevent to the post, made it shorter and simple.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    I think you need to pay better attention to whatever boss timer addon you use so you don't fall off when downdraft is cast. A 5% speed buff wouldn't change you falling off there.
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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    idk if dks have an ability actually called unholy aura atm, please go easy on me
    They do.

    Also, most classes have plenty of Move Speed passives, including Priests.

    As a slow fat DK in Blood Presence without sprint on a lot of fights for one reason or another (Stun/Chilblains instead), you can counter a lot of mechanics by taking pre-thought about it or countering with a raid CD.

    On Ji-kun, use a druid roar for every second knockback.

    Make sure you're perfectly tight with Ji-kun, and going towards the longer sections.

    B&S is ridiculously stronk. (Or try feathers. 60% for 6 seconds as opposed to 4)

    And yes, i agree Ji-kun is annoying as fuck esp. as a tank when you watch Warriors/Druids just charge back in =[ And/or you need to be in melee range so the boss doesn't melee someone else.
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  4. #4
    The Patient Zelerena's Avatar
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    honestly I dont think priests should get a movement speed effecter. Try using your feathers which actually increase your movement speed instead of putting the point in something else. you also get body and soul. You have the movement speed effects and talents. USE THEM. Seriously You dont need it. I am a monk. Granted a fat pandaren monk who heals but has roll but nothing else but roll for effective movement speed fast-ners. You have 2 different things to make you faster. Monks only have one. And actually if you are in a level 25 guild Im pretty sure you get a movement buff there too, with mounts and running.

    Honestly if they made plate wearers slow because of the weight of their armor to be more realistic, that would be unfair for plate wearers. That means that Warriors, Death Knights, Paladins all would suffer slower movement speed because of the weight of their armor. Also Chain wearers would be second slowest, and third would be the leather wearers, but for cloth wearers..you would be the fastest and have to wait for the tanks or whatnot because they were the ones with the plate that weighs them down.

    Honestly. Im sorry but your raid team is right....Maybe it is you...maybe you are just slow. Lol Not being mean, you just have the tools there for you....you just arent using them.

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  5. #5
    Thank you for pointing out my failures, but that is not the point of discussion.
    I think that is the exact point of what a raid buff should be: a small intangible benefit.

    As you said, 5% speed buff won't change anything, but i continue to use movement speed boot enchants, when i would get more stats from the alternative - so do most of the rest of the population.
    Speed buffs won't change anything, yet we have entire talent tiers dedicated to the stuff.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    Thank you for pointing out my failures, but that is not the point of discussion.
    I think that is the exact point of what a raid buff should be: a small intangible benefit.

    As you said, 5% speed buff won't change anything, but i continue to use movement speed boot enchants, when i would get more stats from the alternative - so do most of the rest of the population.
    Speed buffs won't change anything, yet we have entire talent tiers dedicated to the stuff.

    Then why bother implementing it in the 1st place.... ?

    Talents improving movement are far and beyond 5% benefits.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by chosenkiwi View Post
    Then why bother implementing it in the 1st place.... ?

    Talents improving movement are far and beyond 5% benefits.
    I hope you noticed the "but" and "yet" conjunctions after the comma. In this case, i wanted to show the counter point to "speed buffs won't change anything" with the question "then why do people use boot speed enchants" and "we have entire talent tiers dedicated to movement"

    You say talents moving speed increases are beyond 5%. Can you be more specific? Is that a passive movement speed increase or a short term increase?
    Do you realise some classes don't have passive movement speed increases at all. Granted, it is intended, but is it intended that prot pallies are stronger tanks than other tanks? This is merely a case of balance design.

    In the case of tangible effects, i.e. dps and healing, certain classes are imbalanced at certain times. People complain - they get nerfed.
    But, can classes be imbalanced based on intangible effects? If you accept the above idea, then yes, classes can be imbalanced in terms of other intangible effects. This is a point of balance design, which can be questioned. Do you need a meter to tell you something is overpowered or not?

  8. #8
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    ...So lets say that paladins are overpowered based on the intangible effect of them wielding the Light as their weapon. You can't numerically tell that it is better than anything else but intangibly it is. That summarizes how I'm reading your new post. See something about that seems totally nonsensical?

    In a game of numbers you balance based on math. Movespeed is actually something that can be factored in mathematically in determining how much time it saves per X% movespeed over Y number of yards. You can also determine the effects by viewing them in such situations where you need to be moving at X% increased speed in order to avoid things, stay ahead of things or avoid being blown off of things. All balance changes are observable, there wouldn't be any point if you made a change that had no observable impact because it ends up being null due to the fact you can't view any effects from it.
    Last edited by TEHPALLYTANK; 2013-05-25 at 12:33 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  9. #9
    No, it's already hard enough to cover all buffs in a 10 man raid without introducing another one. Besides 5% does very little, and all classes have ways to avoid falling down during Downdraft for instance; priests have Body and Soul as well as feathers. Use them.

  10. #10
    The only class that has any reason to complain on that fight is Hunters.

    Unless a druid puts Symbiosis on them for sprint, they can't avoid falling off. Aspect of the Cheetah gets disabled during the winds.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Myzou View Post
    The only class that has any reason to complain on that fight is Hunters.

    Unless a druid puts Symbiosis on them for sprint, they can't avoid falling off. Aspect of the Cheetah gets disabled during the winds.
    can't you turn around and use disengage?
    I don't think this matters nearly as much as you think it does.

  12. #12
    The Lightbringer TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zoefschildpad View Post
    can't you turn around and use disengage?
    Yes, they can. Properly positioned NO class will fall off on Ji-Kun. Downdraft is a player issue, not flawed mechanic.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by worcester View Post
    Edit: Added for continuity for the next 3 posts; my previous iteration of my post included my shortcomings on the Ji-Kun encounter - which was not intended to be purpose of this post.
    Then what is the purpose of the post ? Just calling for random buffs for mechanics you can't do ? Can I get one that increases my size by 100% ? I like being a big bear in raids ;/

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxyra View Post

    And yes, i agree Ji-kun is annoying as fuck esp. as a tank when you watch Warriors/Druids just charge back in =[ And/or you need to be in melee range so the boss doesn't melee someone else.
    Monks can roll, DK's and Paladins have speed increases that can/should be used during that too. A druid having stampede roar just saves the entire raid from using a speed enhancer for a downdraft. Those melee DPS'ers can't be dumb either and must be aware that they can't be in melee range right after a downdraft too. Some DPS are DumPS though.
    Last edited by rated; 2013-05-25 at 01:43 PM.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    Yes, they can. Properly positioned NO class will fall off on Ji-Kun. Downdraft is a player issue, not flawed mechanic.
    Watch as you fly back 5 yards then fall to your death. Disengage takes into account things like downdraft.

  15. #15
    Moderator Nicola's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Myzou View Post
    Watch as you fly back 5 yards then fall to your death. Disengage takes into account things like downdraft.
    Then take the talent that gives you a speed bonus after using disengage?

  16. #16
    I like that idea, seeing other classes with 15% base movement speed i always feel somewhat jeally. While warrior tend to be the iconic high mobility class i can't leap or charge or intervene around 24/7 when there's a boss hitting on me without causing further troubles with positioning etc.

    That became imminent on the of Will of the Emperor encounter, with my rather slow reaction time there were several close calls (where i needed to leap) while i had absolutely no problems on my bear (15%) or paladin (15-30%).

    Ps: for Ji-Kun i regulary need 1-2 charges + 1 leap to not fall of the plateau while starting at the center...

  17. #17
    The Lightbringer Raugnaut's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rated View Post
    Then what is the purpose of the post ? Just calling for random buffs for mechanics you can't do ? Can I get one that increases my size by 100% ? I like being a big bear in raids ;/
    This! we need this raid buff! 100% more size!
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    I think your problem is a lack of intellect.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Myzou View Post
    Watch as you fly back 5 yards then fall to your death. Disengage takes into account things like downdraft.
    Still doesn't change the fact that you will not fall off the platform if you are close to the boss when downdraft begins. And why the hell wouldn't you anyways? you're a hunter for god's sake - you can move and dps without loss.

  19. #19

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Myzou View Post
    The only class that has any reason to complain on that fight is Hunters.

    Unless a druid puts Symbiosis on them for sprint, they can't avoid falling off. Aspect of the Cheetah gets disabled during the winds.
    I don't recall our hunter ever falling off... and certainly not every attempt. We've never brought a druid.

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