Urgot, how and why?

[Deleted]

I understand his function in lane - the discussion was about his late game presence. I don't know which carries you think he can beat, but I can't argue with you anyway, since, according to Elophant stats, he's the least played champion in solo queue (and I haven't played him in months).

His lategame presence has nothing to do with which other carry he can, and cannot beat. This is a team game, meaning the discussion is fairly pointless, the idea of him 1v1'ing someone is only for amusement.

His lategame presence during fights is strong, if he has the proper setup with him, that is. It's definitely lacking, but it's still very strong if played correctly.

[SargorVirm]

Urgot does well to counter the carry because even IF they scale better into late game, he beats them down SOOOO hard early game that they are at least 1 item behind. letting him kill them all game

[gildra]

for future refference, DON'T use the reverser on a Sona while both teams are looking for an engagement. I was playing sona and we obliterated the enemy team because of this.

[Deleted]

for future refference, DON'T use the reverser on a Sona while both teams are looking for an engagement. I was playing sona and we obliterated the enemy team because of this.

That's like Blitzgrabbing a Galio in the middle of your team.

[gamhacked]

That's like Blitzgrabbing a Galio in the middle of your team.

As long as you've activated Power Fist and haven't manually used it, you should be fine.

[Deleted]

That's like Blitzgrabbing a Galio in the middle of your team.

Bad example, that's a good thing if you know what you're doing.

Better example would be to say "That's like grabbing Amumu/Sejuani/Zac/Lissandra/Alistar/<insert random champion with massive aoe CC/damage> into your team"

[gamhacked]

A standard Urgot build is tanky enough to mitigate the difference in damage between himself and a regular late game carry to the point where he comes out on top. That is what he is designed to do and if you use a proper item build he will do it to every late game ADC except Vayne, but that is because Vayne is designed to counter high HP tanky champs.

I can appreciate that he might build up a slight item advantage on account of his strength in lane, but I doubt he'd have enough damage to take down a carry by himself. His lacking attack speed and life steal, absence of crit - in short, dependence on skills - wouldn't trump a ~2.00 attack speed/~40% life steal carry in my opinion. Bear in mind that a traditional carry will usually have one defensive item, like Randuin's Omen or Guardian Angel.

This isn't worth arguing about, though - you'd have to test it. That said, my impression stands.

[Kasierith]

I dislike Urgot. My opinion on him is that he has a very strong early game, but mid game he lacks the ability to out damage a carry and out bully a bruiser. Late game, he can be shut down with rather minimal pressure, and his ult while nice is rather weak overall unless you're in a situation specifically favorable for it; pretty much a short stun and a small switch. He isn't a bad champ; he's just in the list of champs that are outshone by numerous other champions right now. What they really need to do right now is increase the range and moderate the damage of his Q and E, so he can become a siege champion.

If you want to try him out though.. he's a tactical champion. Playing him depends on specific manouvering and map control; getting their adc right in the middle of the team, peeling for your team, chasing and preventing initiates with eating pokes with his shield and by getting in the way. In terms of a straight up fight he is lackluster, but he has a pretty good strategic benefit to use. Learn his ult, and find ways to make their team hurt with it.

[gamhacked]

No reason to test it. Have seen it several dozen times in pro tournaments and done it myself in Gold 2. But whatever, you are right, not worth arguing about something I know to be true.

You conceded earlier that Vayne can beat him. Surely Kog'Maw and Varus can as well by the same logic?

[Deleted]

You conceded earlier that Vayne can beat him. Surely Kog'Maw and Varus can as well by the same logic?

Kog'Maw, problaly, maybe. Varus, doubtful.

Vayne simply because she has true damage and Tumble to dodge Urgot's poison.

[gamhacked]

Kog'Maw, problaly, maybe. Varus, doubtful.

Vayne simply because she has true damage and Tumble to dodge Urgot's poison.

Doubt you could dodge anything against a good Urgot who uses his ultimate to slow you first.

[gamhacked]

/sigh.

Vayne beats him because of her massive load of true damage. Unlike Vayne, Varus and Kog are not %hp true damage champions. Sure, Varrus and Kog hurt him a bit more, but of properly built it won't really matter unless they are building specifically to counter him with items like BotRK and their own tanky items. But then again, any champ can build to specifically counter any champ and come out on top. But usually come team fight time a different champ will simply rape them in the mouth and spit on their corpse.

Let's say your Urgot has 3000 health and 100 MR (which seems generous).
Vayne hits for 8% + 60 true damage every 3 attacks, which is 240 + 60 = 300 / 3 = 100 health lost per attack
Kog'Maw hits for 6% magic damage mitigated to 3% courtesy of 50% MR, which = 90 health lost per attack (bear in mind Caustic Spittle subtracts 25 MR when active, so it would increase to 3.4% on account of 43% magic reduction)
Varus, after applying 3 stacks of Blight, deals 15% of max health in magic damage, modified by MR to 7.5% = 2.5% = 75 health lost per attack
Vayne has more physical basic attack damage; Kog'Maw has more attack speed and magic damage; Varus has less overall damage but has healing reduction. All in all it shouldn't vary much.

This argument is so hypothetical, and I honestly don't care what the outcome is because I've seen Urgot maybe 5 times in my ranked career and 0 times in season 3.

[Deleted]

Let's say your Urgot has 3000 health and 100 MR (which seems generous).
Vayne hits for 8% + 60 true damage every 3 attacks, which is 240 + 60 = 300 / 3 = 100 health lost per attack
Kog'Maw hits for 6% magic damage mitigated to 3% courtesy of 50% MR, which = 90 health lost per attack (bear in mind Caustic Spittle subtracts 25 MR when active, so it would increase to 3.4% on account of 43% magic reduction)
Varus, after applying 3 stacks of Blight, deals 15% of max health in magic damage, modified by MR to 7.5% = 2.5% = 75 health lost per attack
Vayne has more physical basic attack damage; Kog'Maw has more attack speed and magic damage; Varus has less overall damage but has healing reduction. All in all it shouldn't vary much.

This argument is so hypothetical, and I honestly don't care what the outcome is because I've seen Urgot maybe 5 times in my ranked career and 0 times in season 3.

Kog'Maw's damage doesn't have 100% uptime, you're also forgetting about Vayne's AD Steoroid on Tumble and Ultimate.
Urgot will also have a Maw of Malmortius giving him more than 100 MR and the 300 shield.

It doesn't matter though

What I don't get though is, when you've experienced Urgot as little as you have, why are you even trying to argue it?

[gamhacked]

Kog'Maw's damage doesn't have 100% uptime, you're also forgetting about Vayne's AD Steoroid on Tumble and Ultimate.
Urgot will also have a Maw of Malmortius giving him more than 100 MR and the 300 shield.

It doesn't matter though

What I don't get though is, when you've experienced Urgot as little as you have, why are you even trying to argue it?

I played him a good deal during season 2, and I form strong impressions about champions once I feel I've become well enough acquainted with them. Since nothing (to my knowledge) about Urgot in particular has changed since then, I assume I can maintain my outlook on his place in the game at the moment.

That said, other things have changed since season 2 (most notably items), so you present a fair point in saying I have little experience with Urgot. I have previously said that I'm speculating and that I could be wrong, though, and since neither of us really care, it's best we end this discussion.

[Duilliath]

Urgot was situational in S2, but then already could dominate a lane to the point where the enemy laner was sitting on 10 CS. He could also hold 1 lane solo fairly easily, especially with blue buff. This gives the support a chance to roam more.

S3 brought a useful upgrade to brutaliser, manamune and sheen. All three of which made Urgot stronger.

They did need to tone him down a bit as he was just murdering lanes, but currently he still does well in shutting down enemy ADCs. It's pointless comparing him in 1v1 6item builds because that's a situation that should, simply put, never happen. By that time you're in teamfights or dead. Additionally, the enemy AD should be well behind Urgot in terms of items.

There's a few ADs that can give Urgot trouble though. Draven can shut him down before Urgot has a chance to become really dangerous. Varus can farm pretty safely still. There's a few more.