If Demon Hunter is the next hero class, What level do you think it should start at?

[Drithien]

Demon Hunters will not start at level 1. It wouldn't make sense.

Monks do, what was it about them not making any sense? You don't even have to start as demon hunter; an adept would be fine. And work your way to finally earn the title at a higher level. Can't see how in a game where Sunwalkers behave exactly like paladins, witch doctors for trolls as priests, the fricking death knights are of almost any race all of a sudden, etc, demon hunters starting from level 1 as trials, and advancing through the ranks as they gain levels, with specific quests and challenges to overcome and so on, can't make sense. It would even make for a fresh approach to levelling a new class, giving players a tighter connection to their avatar, training material (satisfying at least part of the demands for practice content), class questslines(woohoo!). I think it would make lots of sense.

PS, please don't say things such as "will not start at...". You are not part of the developing team, so, just like most of us, you don't know or can dictate what will happen. We are all just suggesting here.

[Teriz]

Monks do, what was it about them not making any sense? You don't even have to start as demon hunter; an adept would be fine. And work your way to finally earn the title at a higher level. Can't see how in a game where Sunwalkers behave exactly like paladins, witch doctors for trolls as priests, the fricking death knights are of almost any race all of a sudden, etc, demon hunters starting from level 1 as trials, and advancing through the ranks as they gain levels, with specific quests and challenges to overcome and so on, can't make sense. It would even make for a fresh approach to levelling a new class, giving players a tighter connection to their avatar, training material (satisfying at least part of the demands for practice content), class questslines(woohoo!). I think it would make lots of sense.

Because all you need to do to become a Monk is find a Pandaren willing to train you in Pandaren martial arts.

Becoming a Demon Hunter is a much more "involved" process. First you need to find a Demon Hunter willing to train you. Unlike Pandarens whom are jovial extroverts, Demon Hunters are reclusive loners, and tend to hang out only where there are plenty of demons to kill. In game, you don't start fighting demons until the 40s or 50s. So technically speaking, a level 1 Demon Hunter initiate couldn't even reach a Demon Hunter to train them. Then after that, you have to blind yourself and other crazy stuff, and then get trained in Demon Hunter ways.

In short, I just don't see how it would work without completely destroying DH lore. Having a DH initiate being an experienced hero, and starting at level 50+ makes more sense.

[Drithien]

Because all you need to do to become a Monk is find a Pandaren willing to train you in Pandaren martial arts.

Becoming a Demon Hunter is a much more "involved" process. First you need to find a Demon Hunter willing to train you. Unlike Pandarens, Demon Hunters are reclusive, and tend to hang out only where there are plenty of demons to kill. In game, you don't start fighting demons until the 40s or 50s. So technically speaking, a level 1 Demon Hunter initiate couldn't even reach a Demon Hunter to train them. Then after that, you have to blind yourself and other crazy stuff, and then get trained in Demon Hunter ways.

In short, I just don't see how it would work without completely destroying DH lore. Having a DH initiate being an experienced hero, and starting at level 50+ makes more sense.

What you are describing would never work for demon hunters in general. They only slay demons? And what happens if a South Seas expansion comes along, or any material not associated with demons in general? Just like death knights, the lore can only take you so far; after that you partly ignore, and partly, if you have the talent and desire, you give them a reason to go on.

As for who can be reached at level 1, look no further than the paladin trainers and druid trainers in starting areas. You seem interested in lore, so, how stupid is that the elite force that are the paladins start at level 1, and have level 5 trainers; and the wise night elf druids can die by a level 10 bear without hope of survival, when they appear for the first time as level 1 player-avatars? You work around, or with, such things.

What is more, why not give them their own campaign, which would intertwine with demon-related low-level quests at times, but still have them out in the world? We haven't had a proper multi-level campaign ever since vanilla for any of the additional racial factions. This could be a start.

[Teriz]

What you are describing would never work for demon hunters in general. They only slay demons? And what happens if a South Seas expansion comes along, or any material not associated with demons in general? Just like death knights, the lore can only take you so far; after that you partly ignore, and partly, if you have the talent and desire, you give them a reason to go on.

What you describe are some of the many reasons I don't think Demon Hunters will be implemented. It's hard to make a class called Demon Hunters do anything except hunt demons.

As for who can be reached at level 1, look no further than the paladin trainers and druid trainers in starting areas. You seem interested in lore, so, how stupid is that the elite force that are the paladins start at level 1, and have level 5 trainers; and the wise night elf druids can die by a level 10 bear without hope of survival, when they appear for the first time as level 1 player-avatars? You work around, or with, such things.

It's not stupid at all actually. It makes sense that paladins would take in raw recruits who possess the ability to wield holy magic. It's also pretty established in WoW that Paladins are a pretty sizable and prolific force. Also it's pretty obvious that paladins are pretty easy to find, and that there are various paladins at various levels of ability.

The same applies to Druids. It would make sense for the Cenarian Circle to train those who are inclined towards Druidic magic and abilities. Also like paladins, Druids are in many places throughout Azeroth, so they aren't hard to find.

You can't compare either to Demon Hunters.

What is more, why not give them their own campaign, which would intertwine with demon-related low-level quests at times, but still have them out in the world? We haven't had a proper multi-level campaign ever since vanilla for any of the additional racial factions. This could be a start.

That would require Blizzard to make an entirely separate 1-60 just for them. Why would Blizzard go through all of that trouble just for one class?

[Wildmoon]

Starting around 65 would be fine. WoW will have around 95 or 100 max level at that time. Plenty of content to learn your class.

[GKLeatherCraft]

There's also alot of talk about blizzard shutting down the servers after this expansion.

See, I can make stuff up too!

What? He wasn't making it up at all, there has been a lot of threads about this over the past few months, loads of them, that = a lot of talk
He didn't say by blizzard, just that there is a lot of talk

You on the other hand did just make it up, GG though, GG xD

And OT, I think if they do another Hero class it will start at a higher level again, possibly kept at 55

[Agoonga]

Demon Hunter shouldn't be a hero class, it should just be the Warlock's tanking spec.

[Skorpionss]

At least lvl 65 and quest zone gets you to 68, but I'd prefer it if it started at 75 and leveled you all the way to 80... fuck Northrend and outland... I'm sick of them.

Also I hope we get to resurrect Illidan in our starting zone and redeem him by the end or have quests every 5 lvls up to 95 and when we do the 95 one he is redeemed and u can find him in Darnassus in the shadow district thing...

[Chirri]

Whatever level the expansion that adds them starts at. Make a really long, involved quest line that allows you to turn any character class/race of your choice into a Demon Hunter. Perhaps you won't be a real "Demon Hunter" until that expansion's level cap, slowly trading over your old class's abilities for DH ones.

[Skorpionss]

Whatever level the expansion that adds them starts at. Make a really long, involved quest line that allows you to turn any character class/race of your choice into a Demon Hunter. Perhaps you won't be a real "Demon Hunter" until that expansion's level cap, slowly trading over your old class's abilities for DH ones.

hmm this could be nice too as long as you are still involved in resurrecting Illidan and redeeming him.

[Thimagryn]

DHs starting at level 75 would make them the most hated class in the game. Could you imagine how awful DH players would be if they started at level 75? I could just imagine guilds purposely banning DHs from joining.

75 isn't a bad idea. Why do you need to play pre-Cataclysm content to learn the class? There's nothing in that leveling content that teaches you anything serious about how to play. I could actually see them even starting off at 80 with a starter zone that capped you out at 85 before you're off to start Pandaria content. The starter zone would be similar to the DK one, a place that eases you into all your abilities and gives a proper tutorial for how to play as a Demon Hunter, including quests that focus on each of the specs.

You'll be going through your Starter zone, then Pandaria content, then New Expansion content. That's more than enough time to learn the ins-and-outs of how to play. Even with Scroll of Ressurection free 80's, anyone could pick up a class they've never played before.

[DeadmanWalking]

You are not going to see any more hero classes, people only want them so they can catapult themselves out of the lowbie zones. Typically what you end up with in a dungeon group is a bunch of people who know what their abilities do because they leveled up from level 1 and a DK tank who has no clue what his abilities are at level 60. How much shouting was there back in Wrath over DK's not knowing what they were doing?

I know you really love hurdling to 60 but Blizzard didn't do it with the Monk, instead they gave them daily quests for exp buffs which tells us that they would rather you do the lower level content and level faster than just jump right to 60. If the Heroic Level 55 jump had worked the monks would of had it.

[Skorpionss]

I dunno where you guys get the idea that starting at level 1 does anything to help you learn to play... the content is so easy up to cata that a blind person with mental disabilities could do it... heck I leveled my monk as brewmaster in dungeons just by spamming keg smash and dizzying haze... and I barely died a few times coz we pulled too many packs. I've seen monks spam dizzying haze all dungeon without doing any dmg on trash only on bosses... so yeah I doubt starting at any level matters much if anything having their own zone at lvl 75+ when they already have majority of their skills and designing the zone in such a way that it really tests you would be much much better than starting at lvl 1 and not learning shit coz the content is too easy.

I mean the dungeons at least are so easy I soloed every single one while it was relevant up to cata when I got bored coz it took too long to kill bosses... and after I soloed it once I'd do it with group to go faster but alwasy solo first run

[Teriz]

75 isn't a bad idea. Why do you need to play pre-Cataclysm content to learn the class? There's nothing in that leveling content that teaches you anything serious about how to play. I could actually see them even starting off at 80 with a starter zone that capped you out at 85 before you're off to start Pandaria content. The starter zone would be similar to the DK one, a place that eases you into all your abilities and gives a proper tutorial for how to play as a Demon Hunter, including quests that focus on each of the specs.

Because people can't play their class after 90 levels, much less 15.

Also starting them at 80? Why not just start them at max level, since leveling doesn't matter?

[Skorpionss]

Because people can't play their class after 90 levels, much less 15.

Also starting them at 80? Why not just start them at max level, since leveling doesn't matter?

some people can't play their class right after playing it for 3 years and raiding 4 times a week... I doubt starting again with that class at lvl 1 would teach them anything... those who want to learn do it even if they start at max level.

[Tojara]

What does starting at level one or level fifty five or sixty five have to do with how good/bad someone is at their class.

I've been playing since the first day of Vanilla up until present day and honestly, bad players are just going to be bad regardless. While the game is much more in your face and is much more friendly to new players, it doesn't mean that someone starting from level one is actually going to give that player a better chance of learning to play that class over someone starting at level whatever. Dungeons are incredibly easy and quests are incredibly easy. Knowledge of the game is the most powerful way to get better in all aspects of this game, and most of that knowledge doesn't come from within the game, nor does it come from random dungeon runs with pugs or meaningless tasks for NPCs.

It's just arrogance to believe that doing meaningless tasks at level one up to max level make you good at your class at all. Good players are going to seek information on how to play from outside sources or people who already play the game. Bad players are going to be secluded to the rest of the world and do their own thing. By no means is starting from the beginning 'training' to get good at the game. You learn the same tools starting from 55 and going to max level (as a Death Knight) as you would starting from level one and going to max levels. Hitting damage abilities randomly and going from point A to point B. Nothing tests you leveling up anymore and you barely learn anything.

Note that this isn't me giving justification as to why or why not someone should start at 'x' level or not. I am merely saying that to me (and I've watched plenty of players come and go) that a starting level is highly irrelevant to how someone develops as a player.

I went around Durotar on launch day hitting peons with a stick and two shotting imps, I don't think that made me better at playing my Shaman nearly 10 years ago than me starting my DK when WoTLK started at 55.

[Teriz]

some people can't play their class right after playing it for 3 years and raiding 4 times a week... I doubt starting again with that class at lvl 1 would teach them anything... those who want to learn do it even if they start at max level.

I'm willing to bet that players starting at level 1 and reach max level are (on average) better players than those who start at level 80 and above and reach max level.

[Shinta255]

I think if we were to get a new class we would start off at level 1 like monks. Too much time was spent during Cata to make the vanilla zones and we will be forced to play through them whether we like it or not!

[Teriz]

What does starting at level one or level fifty five or sixty five have to do with how good/bad someone is at their class.

I've been playing since the first day of Vanilla up until present day and honestly, bad players are just going to be bad regardless. While the game is much more in your face and is much more friendly to new players, it doesn't mean that someone starting from level one is actually going to give that player a better chance of learning to play that class over someone starting at level whatever. Dungeons are incredibly easy and quests are incredibly easy. Knowledge of the game is the most powerful way to get better in all aspects of this game, and most of that knowledge doesn't come from within the game, nor does it come from random dungeon runs with pugs or meaningless tasks for NPCs.

It's just arrogance to believe that doing meaningless tasks at level one up to max level make you good at your class at all. Good players are going to seek information on how to play from outside sources or people who already play the game. Bad players are going to be secluded to the rest of the world and do their own thing. By no means is starting from the beginning 'training' to get good at the game. You learn the same tools starting from 55 and going to max level (as a Death Knight) as you would starting from level one and going to max levels. Hitting damage abilities randomly and going from point A to point B. Nothing tests you leveling up anymore and you barely learn anything.

Note that this isn't me giving justification as to why or why not someone should start at 'x' level or not. I am merely saying that to me (and I've watched plenty of players come and go) that a starting level is highly irrelevant to how someone develops as a player.

I went around Durotar on launch day hitting peons with a stick and two shotting imps, I don't think that made me better at playing my Shaman nearly 10 years ago than me starting my DK when WoTLK started at 55.

It goes beyond simply the skill of the player. A class that starts at higher levels by default is expected to be more powerful than a normal class. This is part of the reason the DK population has plummeted since Blizzard has begun to balance the class.

[Thimagryn]

Because people can't play their class after 90 levels, much less 15.

Also starting them at 80? Why not just start them at max level, since leveling doesn't matter?

It would make everyone else jealous, that's why. Leveling isn't there to learn how to play your class. I wish it were, but that's not how it works. You can do quests all you want, but it won't help you learn how to raid or use a proper rotation against bosses. All that comes from dungeons and raiding, and you can't do that without all your abilities. Running dungeons from 1-80 is fairly irrelevant to 85-95, where you would have unlocked most of your abilities, masteries and other tools necessary for tanking or healing.

At the beginning of Mists, I created a Pandaren Disc Priest from 1-85 through dungeons and some side quests. All I did was put PWS on the tank and used Smite to kill everything while it auto-healed. Not much to learn there.