Vanilla and TBC Servers

[Agent Mercury]

Blizzard wants money and they have the research they need. If there was a substantial demand to make it profitable they would have the servers.

[sandmoth12]

Then what is there to discuss? You've shown you gave up on arguing (and didn't even try with the wall), so what else is there to say?

I haven't gave up on anything.

---------- Post added 2013-05-25 at 11:27 PM ----------

Uh, so far you've spouted that BC and vanilla servers have huge populations, which you've failed to provide evidence for, then you claim that "that one server that did okay and then eventually failed" is proof that this idea wont fail.



You're the one insisting this change would be "for the better"

Burden of proof: yours.

Proof is a silly word, but I do have some evidence. And my evidence is the existence of many vanilla and TBC private servers. You people claim they old wow is not wanted, but people actually went out of their way and broke the law just to be able to play classic wow. That is greater than just nostalgia. Not to mention these threads are frequently brought up on both MMO-chamo forums and wow official forms nearly every day.

That a fair case of solid evidence to deal with. I know you are going to counter with the "it would cost too much" argument, but the fact is that you do not really know how much people it will bring in.

[The Madgod]

We'll I disagree with that sentiment. I believe the demand is there, and lots of people would stay on those servers long-term.

But the example you gave no longer has those numbers.

If such a big private server's popularity despite it remaining the same patch (something I'd assume to be true) fell then it's a good example of what would happen on an official Blizzard vanilla server.

You're saying demand's there. We're saying that demand is volatile and once met would diminish over time due to a lack of change. Which your own source proved.

[sandmoth12]

But the example you gave no longer has those numbers.

If such a big private server's popularity despite it remaining the same patch (something I'd assume to be true) fell then it's a good example of what would happen on an official Blizzard vanilla server.

I forget exactly why it fell, but I think it was because hackers got to it. So it may have kept gaining popularity, but private servers do not have the security measures blizzard does. This is a potential reason why classic private servers are not more popular. Plus the servers are not stable.

Still a population of over 1 million on a emulated server that is full of bugs, hackers, and server stability issues is better than a lot real legitimate MMOS. If a fair amount of people are willing to play on an illegal server that is full of problems, then imagine if that servers were actually legit.

[Waniou]

I forget exactly why it fell, but I think it was because hackers got to it. So it may have kept gaining popularity, but private servers do not have the security measures blizzard does. This is a potential reason why classic private servers are not more popular. Plus the servers are not stable.

Still a population of over 1 million on a emulated server that is full of bugs, hackers, and server stability issues is better than a lot real legitimate MMOS. If a fair amount of people are willing to play on an illegal server that is full of problems, then imagine if that servers were actually legit.

What you forget, is that there's no point in trying to convince us, the forum-goers of MMO-Champion, of this. You need to be trying to convince Blizzard. Except Blizzard have already looked at this data, have already considered the numbers, have far, far, far more data than you will ever have on the cost vs. benefit of it and have decided "no, this isn't worth our time and money."

[Ielenia]

Why are so many people against them? If I want to play the classic days of wow rather than the modern era and on a completely different server, then how does that effect you?

It doesn't make sense why so many people are against them. Are they afraid that more people may actually play old wow rather than new wow?

Oh, look. Another one of those posts. Yay...?

Alright. Reading every word you posted makes it clear to me that you are either: a) badly trolling; or b) acting stupidly by making uninformed presumptions and taking them as truth.Anyways. Your first question:

Why are so many people against them?

Your answer: they don't want to get bored to tears nor have their gameplay affected. Clarification will come with the next questions. Next question:

If I want to play the classic days of wow rather than the modern era and on a completely different server, then how does that effect you?

Your answer: Blizzard resources aren't infinite. Let's make a quick analogy: We have a Ferrari factory making cars model 2013. However, some of their customers claim that the models from the year, say, 1998 were better, and want Ferrari to start producing them again. Let's assume Ferrari caves and starts making the 1998 models again. With that, their resources get split into current and old car model construction, From there, one of three things happen:
a) quantity of production stays the same, but quality of cars drop due to less people working on each model;
b) the quality of the cars remains the same, but the amount made each year drops severely;
c) the prices of both cars go up quite a lot to make up the fact Ferrari has to hire new people to properly staff both teams.
None of those outcomes are desirable for any company that wants to *actually* please their customers AND survive in the future. Now, last question of yours:

It doesn't make sense why so many people are against them. Are they afraid that more people may actually play old wow rather than new wow?

The first part of that question is already answered above. Now, the second part, is why I mentioned in the beginning why it's a trolling attempt or the poster acting juvenile. It's classic flame-bait. But I'll answer it anyways:

World of Warcraft has over EIGHT MILLION active paying subscriptions. The number of people that post on Blizzard's official forums, or unofficial forums, is less than half of that number. And considering that NOT everyone within that forum posters group is pro-vanilla/BC... We can basically be 99.9% certain that the majority of WoW subscribers do NOT want Vanilla/BC servers back, mostly for reasons given above.

Another quick analogy: when I was little, I wouldn't miss a single episode of the Woody Woodpecker cartoon. I loved that crazy bird. However, I grew up. If I watch an episode of Woody Woodpecker today (the old cartoon, from the 40's and 50's reruns), I'd get a chuckle here and there from the episode, but I wouldn't feel compelled to watch nowhere near as much (if at all) as I used to when I was a kid. Why? Because, like I said, I grew up. I changed. I evolved. The cartoon didn't.

And that is what the pro-vanilla/BC people want to do to WoW. They want it to stagnate. And then eventually die. Because, if (and only IF) those servers are ever implemented (I hope they don't), those servers would pack up quite a bit for a while, but soon the population of those servers would quickly decline, down to a now near-inexistent semi-active population. Why? Because there's nothing new. There won't EVER be anything new. There would be no expansions to it... no new content... while the other normal servers would still get new content regularly. You may ask: "Why wouldn't the vanilla/BC servers get any new content?" My first answer would be a light whap with my hand on the back of your head for asking such a braindead question, and then my second answer would be this: "Why do you think people claim for vanilla/BC servers in the first place? Because new content was added, back then, to Vanilla and BC. That's the sole reason! Those people don't like change."

PS: Wow, quite the wall of text. Sorry guys. >.>

[Fat Mac]

The existence of many vanilla and TBC private flies right in the face of your argument.

---------- Post added 2013-05-25 at 11:12 PM ----------



Freenix vanilla wow had over a million for a period of time.

Besides you're still not answering my question. How does me wanting to play vanilla and TBC on different servers effect you at all? The truth is that it does not effect you. If you don't want to play on those servers, then you wouldn't have to.

just go play one of those awesome FREE private servers then. why does it have to be a blizzard server for you to be happy? i dont get it

[Cernunnos]

Unless they are going to some how revert the talent trees to back to what they were in vanilla and TBC, classes are much more powerful than they were back then, even without heirlooms.

If they aren't going to worry about the trees, why not just have a function, similar to challenge modes, that causes the toon you are on to be scaled back to level 60 or 70.
That way, when people decide they don't like it, they don't have to worry about yet another toon the have to delete/ignore. They can just carry on doing the current content stuff with them.

[Waniou]

just go play one of those awesome FREE private servers then. why does it have to be a blizzard server for you to be happy? i dont get it

I suspect a lot of it is, if Blizzard brings out classic/BC/whatever servers, they think it'll confirm their belief that whatever expansion is better than the current expansion.

[Ielenia]

The existence of many vanilla and TBC private flies right in the face of your argument.

I wonder... if we put all the unique players from all those 'many vanilla and TBC pirate servers' together, would it reach at least 10% of the number of active players Blizzard has with World of Warcraft? Hmmm....?

Freenix vanilla wow had over a million for a period of time.

Besides you're still not answering my question. How does me wanting to play vanilla and TBC on different servers effect you at all? The truth is that it does not effect you. If you don't want to play on those servers, then you wouldn't have to.

Wow. A million. A million ACTIVE players? As in, a million unique players playing in a single week? Sorry, but with no evidence to prove it, I call bull-poop. As for the rest of the post, I already went over that topic in my previous post.

[Deleted]

I am really sick and tired of your aggressiveness guys. You are just flaming someone's idea because you don't like it and on top of that you do not present any evidence to support your arguments other than some Blizzard-nonsense. You have really put this company in a divine status and take everything they say for granted.

By the way, Blizzard never uses evidence as well (what an irony). They just come out and say "we know that players will come and play for a while and then will leave because this is how it always goes". WHEN??? WHERE??? IN WHICH GAME??? State your evidence, or else you are saying bs.

Then come the Blizzard fan boys and say "Blizzard is a big company, they know what they are doing". Yeah, right. Let me ask you, how many times did they screw up the past 3 years??? They even screw up in new patches in some cases.

Also the argument about the cost of the servers is invalid. If other people can recreate and maintain private servers with much less money than Blizzard.

What I think is that the current development team does not have the skill of the previous developers that created WoW and the main reason they are doing it is because they do not want to admit that their work is worse than the older team's.

[Kakera]

Why are so many people against them? If I want to play the classic days of wow rather than the modern era and on a completely different server, then how does that effect you?

It doesn't make sense why so many people are against them. Are they afraid that more people may actually play old wow rather than new wow?

They probably think that people who live in the past as a result of nostalgia are sad losers that need to move on with their lives and realize that sometimes things change.

[Deleted]

Because half the people who want to play them never actually played during Vanilla and TBC and would quit after a week of seeing how it actually is. The other half would get bored of stagnation and repetition sooner or later. Also, we're now spoiled by much improved systems and interface options, playing WoW in such outdated versions would feel like going back to the stone age.

On a more business-side thinking it would be a waste of money and resources and would only serve to annoy people who'd rather want actual content and please the small minority of ... special people... that insist everything was perfect back then and cry like spoiled kids for it.

[Thimagryn]

The existence of many vanilla and TBC private flies right in the face of your argument.

Proves nothing because those are free servers. Because they exist does not mean it will be a good, sustainable business model.

Besides, if your argument is true, then no one would need to ask Blizzard to do what Private servers are already providing.

Then come the Blizzard fan boys and say "Blizzard is a big company, they know what they are doing". Yeah, right. Let me ask you, how many times did they screw up the past 3 years??? They even screw up in new patches in some cases.

8.3 million players still playing an 8 year old game. Don't care how much they screw up, but they have to be doing something right to be able to sustain those kind of numbers this late into the game. Look around, how many other MMO's, let alone games can support that kind of number using a subscription model for this long? If Blizzard really screwed up, WoW would have fell a long time ago to its competitors.

[Jigga93]

vanilla/bc werent as good as you think.

[Deleted]

Free, non-donation, no reward 1.12.1 servers exist... I have a char on one of them and log occasionally to relive the epic grind of the levelling process :-P

However, as a vanilla player myself I can literally say the ONLY good things about those days were:

A.) larger sense of realm community
B.) classes were pretty specialised, I.e lower amount of abilities, rogues didn't heal etc. Whether that's a good thing is personal.

And that's it really. The game was far worse but the lack of Xrealm or easy-mode content promoted a more social/realm community where people needed to "act nice" to progress... A bit like real life.

WoW's a far better game nowadays... Just a shame that, outside of RP servers it seems most communities nowadays are within guilds rather than realms.

[serenka]

Free, non-donation, no reward 1.12.1 servers exist... I have a char on one of them and log occasionally to relive the epic grind of the levelling process :-P

However, as a vanilla player myself I can literally say the ONLY good things about those days were:

A.) larger sense of realm community
B.) classes were pretty specialised, I.e lower amount of abilities, rogues didn't heal etc. Whether that's a good thing is personal.

And that's it really. The game was far worse but the lack of Xrealm or easy-mode content promoted a more social/realm community where people needed to "act nice" to progress... A bit like real life.

WoW's a far better game nowadays... Just a shame that, outside of RP servers it seems most communities nowadays are within guilds rather than realms.

i played on a vanilla private server a while back, remembered how awful it was! i had in my mind how much better it was than WoW of today, oh i was wrong

[enchanted]

This thread has been beaten to death already and yet someone brings it up... Listen, I used to always hope one day for BC/Vanilla server since I'm bored of the current wow so what I did was simply go play a private server. I mean they are there for a reason and everyone would nearly reply the same thing which is that blizzard wouldn't make enough money from them I mean yeah sure, people return for a few weeks heck even a few months, then they'd eventually get bored making servers nothing but a graveyard. Even like private servers, people try them out for a while then get bored and after that they either return to retail or just quit.

[Grogo]

If Blizz feels they can make a dollar off it, they would make it happen.

The best bet would steer the game towards a more legacy direction but that in itself is harder than a BC server because the current population is basically one with a lot less skill and the Walmart crowd moved in.

---------- Post added 2013-05-26 at 08:44 AM ----------

vanilla/bc werent as good as you think.

A lot better than it is now.

---------- Post added 2013-05-26 at 08:45 AM ----------

This thread has been beaten to death already and yet someone brings it up... Listen, I used to always hope one day for BC/Vanilla server since I'm bored of the current wow so what I did was simply go play a private server. I mean they are there for a reason and everyone would nearly reply the same thing which is that blizzard wouldn't make enough money from them I mean yeah sure, people return for a few weeks heck even a few months, then they'd eventually get bored making servers nothing but a graveyard. Even like private servers, people try them out for a while then get bored and after that they either return to retail or just quit.

Beaten to death and yet here you are.

[Sturmbringe]

Had. I noticed that word. Had. Which is exactly what we're saying - people would definitely check it out, but only a very small group would actually stick, long-term, to a classic or TBC server; not enough would stay for Blizzard to find the cost even remotely worth it.

People leave those servers you refer to because they are full of bugs, not because they dislike Vanilla or TBC or WOTLK.

1. Pathing bug
2. Raid bugs
3. PvP bugs
4. "Freeze" bug
5. Rollbacks
6. Hacking
7. Dungeon bugs

And finally: They are not 100% Blizzlike. The loot drop rate is broken, experience is not vanilla, etc.

On the other hand, the Legacy servers which are really good and have a dedicated team of developers behind them as well as good hardware, not only are full to the brim, but they also have 3000 people queues to enter. I could post screenshots of the queue but you don't allow advertising of private servers.

The same servers are P2W and they also charge a monthly fee (referred to as donation) in order to allow the end user to skip the thousands of F2P people on the queue.

If I were you, I'd get my facts straight.

(P2W: People pay money through Paypal to buy from an "online shop" Mounts, PvP and PvE gear).

---------- Post added 2013-05-26 at 08:50 AM ----------

If Blizz feels they can make a dollar off it, they would make it happen.

Blizzard fail at feeling, because there are many people making top dollar off Legacy servers as we speak.