What now for destro?

[Zantos]

So, My gm started freaking out. He said Mastery is now top "he was going crit". What is best for destro now? My ilevel is 495 so I wanna know so I don't fall behind.

[Novx]

So wait, your GM was (Pre 5.3) gemming crit and is freaking out now that he has to go mastery? If he was gemming crit he was playing his class wrong. If you link us your armory we can better assist you (and any logs you may have).

[Zantos]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...s/Ayeko/simple

Not sure what he was doing. He was going more crit wise and has to change it all up. Heres my armory though. No logs, havent done normals as of yet on my lock. I'd love advice from a more seasoned warlock. If you want to know my rotation let me know.

[squee666]

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/arthas/ayeko

Click Update from Armory
Change Spec Option To Demo (It is the stat prio destro uses)
Click Optimize
?????
Profit

[Zantos]

http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/arthas/ayeko

Click Update from Armory
Change Spec Option To Demo (It is the stat prio destro uses)
Click Optimize
?????
Profit

Ill try it. Never liked that website. I do what it wants then it tells me do something different. BUt hey, same stats for both means I can play both well.

[Potente]

please correct me if im wrong if they changed mastery and minions.. run heavy mastery with gosac not gosup

[Netherspark]

I'm not aware of any changes to destruction that might prompt a change of stats... have I missed something?

[Zantos]

please correct me if im wrong if they changed mastery and minions.. run heavy mastery with gosac not gosup

I have no clue. I don't see any notes detailing any changes with pets. Nor any buffs / nerfs to warlocks in anyway. I assume its the same way as before, where you do one Or the other and it doesn't matter.

[Deleted]

Haste = Sup Single target = Haste
Mastery = Sac AOE = Mastery

[Zantos]

Im beginning to think its preference now. I can't get the same answer except that mastery seems to be top with even sup.

[Novx]

If you have the RPPM Meta/2 RPPM trinkets you definitely want to go haste, but until then I really don't know which stat would be better for you. Your best bet would be to Sim your warlock and look at that. I would Sim it for you but it seems my simcraft does not want to play nice with the new 5.3 items (neck/bracers). Under no circumstance though should you ever gem or reforge for crit though, it will always be Haste or Mastery. As Filth said, on fights such as Heroic Mageara, Horridon, and Primordius you are better off going Mastery due to the fact that you have infinite embers and just spam chaos bolts almost the entire fight. On fights such as Ji-kun and Jinrohk you want to go haste.

[Baconeggcheese]

Tbh You can't go wrong with any arbitrary amounts of haste or mastery, they're both good. Technically haste is better for single target and mastery is better for aoe but they're both so close to each other that it doesn't make a massive difference so go with whatever feels comfortable to you.

The BIGBIGBIG thing is to try to get rid of as much crit as possible as its a horrible stat that you want to stay away from. After you get rid of all the crit you can then its just arbitrary amounts of haste and mastery.

I'd recommend having a bias on haste if anything though.

[Zantos]

If you have the RPPM Meta/2 RPPM trinkets you definitely want to go haste, but until then I really don't know which stat would be better for you. Your best bet would be to Sim your warlock and look at that. I would Sim it for you but it seems my simcraft does not want to play nice with the new 5.3 items (neck/bracers). Under no circumstance though should you ever gem or reforge for crit though, it will always be Haste or Mastery. As Filth said, on fights such as Heroic Mageara, Horridon, and Primordius you are better off going Mastery due to the fact that you have infinite embers and just spam chaos bolts almost the entire fight. On fights such as Ji-kun and Jinrohk you want to go haste.

Id only ever do regulars with my warlock. And what trinkets do you mean? I dont know how to simcraft my warlock either.

---------- Post added 2013-05-25 at 03:31 AM ----------

Tbh You can't go wrong with any arbitrary amounts of haste or mastery, they're both good. Technically haste is better for single target and mastery is better for aoe but they're both so close to each other that it doesn't make a massive difference so go with whatever feels comfortable to you.

The BIGBIGBIG thing is to try to get rid of as much crit as possible as its a horrible stat that you want to stay away from. After you get rid of all the crit you can then its just arbitrary amounts of haste and mastery.

I'd recommend having a bias on haste if anything though.

Thanks. Guess its just up to me then. I just know to avoid crit and go either haste or mastery. Sounds like if I have the right things to go haste. Would the same stats work as demo as well? Id like for it to work for both so in case I need to change easily.

[Brusalk]

I would like to clarify some things as there is a lot of incorrect information floating around in this thread.


For Destruction stat weights vary drastically based on fight type and talent choice. Please keep in mind that what I'm about to say is a general rule of thumb, and is in no way the most optimal for every single character and every single gearset. That said, it is what I've found in my theorycrafting to be generally true.

Single Target and Two Target Cleave:
Haste == Crit >> Mastery w/ GoSup/GoServ

As you gain RPPM trinkets Haste's value increases slightly above Crit. Mastery becomes slightly better with 2 targets, but Haste/Crit is still best.
GoSac (Mastery stacked) is roughly even with GoSup/GoServ (Haste/Crit stacked) when there are 2 targets able to be cleaved 100% of the time.



Exclusive AoE making use of more than just FnB-Immo and RoF:
Mastery >>>>>>>>>>>>> Haste > Crit w/ GoSup/GoServ-Succubus (Whiplash if knockback doesn't matter)

GoSac has no benefit for AoE whatsoever. While AoEing no targets take increased damage when running GoSac. However running with a pet means one target is taking damage and you're benefiting from the talent.



AoE in >1 groups where you are keeping up FnB-Immo and RoF on the different groups:
Haste > Crit > Mastery w/ GoSup/GoServ-Succubus (Whiplash if knockback doesn't matter)

The main value of Mastery when AoEing comes from Incin/Conflag damage. When you're spending all of your time just FnB-Immo'ing and RoFing, Haste will be better than Mastery. (Real life example of this is H Durumu)


High Ember generation scenarios without extensive AoE:
Mastery > Haste == Crit

This is the sort of situation where there's adds coming in which you can Shadowburn-snipe for Ember generation while able to make use of the Embers gained.

---------- Post added 2013-05-25 at 01:30 AM ----------

Haste = Sup Single target = Haste
Mastery = Sac AOE = Mastery

Sac has no benefit when AoEing.

---------- Post added 2013-05-25 at 01:31 AM ----------

Im beginning to think its preference now. I can't get the same answer except that mastery seems to be top with even sup.

You can't get the same answer because the best stat changes based on fight type.

There is no stat that is best 100% of the time. That's just how it is.

---------- Post added 2013-05-25 at 01:33 AM ----------

Tbh You can't go wrong with any arbitrary amounts of haste or mastery, they're both good. Technically haste is better for single target and mastery is better for aoe but they're both so close to each other that it doesn't make a massive difference so go with whatever feels comfortable to you.

The BIGBIGBIG thing is to try to get rid of as much crit as possible as its a horrible stat that you want to stay away from. After you get rid of all the crit you can then its just arbitrary amounts of haste and mastery.

I'd recommend having a bias on haste if anything though.

Crit is not a horrible stat. In single-target situations it is roughly even with Haste as the best stat, with haste only edging it out when you have 2 RPPM trinkets. In 2-target cleave situations Crit is even with Haste as the best stat.


There is not a huge difference in DPS if you are going Mastery and just being suboptimal on Single target/cleave fights. There IS a huge difference if you are going Haste/Crit on AoE fights however.

[Deleted]

After Brusalk's magnificent post i'd just like to add, if you're looking for a Jack-of-all-trades stat thingy I'd like to go mastery > haste > crit, but instead of going full mastery gems you can pick Int > mastery for the gems to transfer some of the cleave-aoe part to your single target dps.

I tried a few reforge options but this one seems the best for me(personally!)

[Rayaleith]

After reading Brusalk post that, for once more time, clarifies things we see that in the majority of the scenarios haste is better. Still you see the "stars" of destro in here insist on having everything in mastery!

[Deleted]

After reading Brusalk post that, for once more time, clarifies things we see that in the majority of the scenarios haste is better. Still you see the "stars" of destro in here insist on having everything in mastery!

No, in the majority of scenarios, mastery is better. The better the ember generation is the better mastery gets. So IF there are some adds or any other means you can generate more embers, mastery will see its value rising (also keep in mind that both 2PC and 4PC set bonuses are focused on better ember generation, so it's not wrong to say that mastery also gets better upon reaching one or the other bonus respectively).

Fights where you can't generate more embers in current raiding environment are: Jin'rokh, Iron Qon. On any other fight there are at least some ways to increase your ember generation. It, therefore, might be suboptimal to go full mastery on those two fights, but the difference is at worst marginal and if your raid is doing OK on those bosses, it's better to stay mastery oriented. The benefit you bring to the raid on any other fight in the end heavily outweights any marginal suboptimality you suffer from on those two fights.

Note that if your raid does have trouble on the two specific encounters I mentioned, it might be worth reforging to the haste build to make sure you are doing the best and most you can.

For me though, it's a matter of preference. I need to feel good playing what I play to do well. Yes, troll is mathematically better than undead, and yes mastery is simming worse on sigle target fights than haste, but I just feel good playing an undead because he looks awesome and I love big Chaos Bolts because it's... well it's a Chaos Bolt. These things (among many others ofc.) bring me enjoyment and that's what any game should be about: enjyoment.

[Deleted]

i always wondered. at higher item lvl shouldent int scale worse then pure gems. taking brus as a exempel? also i always se peps go destruction with pure gems almost never with a int setup. still brus seems to always go for int. are their any big diffrence between them and say item 520-525?

[Biomega]

As Brusalk pointed out, it depends a lot on which fights you are doing, and how you are doing them. Many people also switch specs on certain fights, and are looking for a compromise so they don't have to reforge/regem too often. Me personally, I switch between Destro and Demo; consequently I reforge Haste to 8097 -> the rest into Mastery. This gives me a decent balance in both specs, and good power on both AoE and single target. I currently go Destro for Horridon, Tortos, Megaera, Ji-Kun, and Primordius; Demo for Jin'rokh, Council, Durumu, Animus, Qon, Twins, and Lei Shen. We're only 8/12hc (10m) though, and I will probably switch to Destro for Durumu-hc.

The one thing I'm still a little unsure about is what Grimoire to take when (as Destro). I'm currently going like this:

Horridon: GoSac (a lot of SB sniping/CB nuke, not a lot FnB)
Tortos: GoSac (same as Horridon; we are not killing bats so they are ember-batteries with MF RoF)
Megaera: GoSac (mainly cleave, some AoE on adds, but infrequently) <- this one I am unsure about!
Ji-Kun: GoSac (pooling for food-buff, some cleave on adds) <- also unsure!
Primordius: GoSup-Succubus (AoE duty on Fluids)

Input is appreciated!

[Netherspark]

I think what the OP is looking for (and tbh most players) is not a fight by fight breakdown of optimal stats... but a single effective setup for normal modes and general play to keep for the forseeable future. This is often the problem with sites like this - someone asks a simple question and is bombarded by far more information than they need, only making them more confused.

Zantos, if you're not aiming for extreme high-end heroic raiding ignore everything you've been told in this thread. If using Grimoire of Supremacy there are no "bad" stats and it really doesn't matter too much where you put your reforging etc. What I prefer is keeping a near balance between Crit, Haste and Mastery, with emphasis on Haste and I'm very rarely not top DPS.

But to be honest, you can focus on any of the 3 stats, any combinations of them or balance them out equally, the difference is really very very small so its mostly just down to personal preference.