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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by rowaasr13 View Post
    This would be most shitty and cliche ending ever. Can I PLEASE have villain that is just driven by his own desire just ONCE in a while, please?
    This. Just this.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    The game is called World of Warcraft, not Thrall's Adventures, it's supposed to be about the history of the world, not of one invincible almighty slave-turned-warchief of the Horde, master of the elements, leader of Earthen Ring, savior of the world and Aspects' chosen. Warcraft existed before Thrall, and can easily exist after him. WC2 era was better in terms of story, Lothar and Orgrim were much more believable and badass than hitler Garrosh, saint Thrall and anime Wrynn.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-26 at 11:28 PM ----------


    Wait... then why would we raid Orgrimmar? We should celebrate, not raid...
    Well said.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haven View Post
    The game is called World of Warcraft, not Thrall's Adventures, it's supposed to be about the history of the world, not of one invincible almighty slave-turned-warchief of the Horde, master of the elements, leader of Earthen Ring, savior of the world and Aspects' chosen. Warcraft existed before Thrall, and can easily exist after him. WC2 era was better in terms of story, Lothar and Orgrim were much more believable and badass than hitler Garrosh, saint Thrall and anime Wrynn.

    ---------- Post added 2013-05-26 at 11:28 PM ----------


    Wait... then why would we raid Orgrimmar? We should celebrate, not raid...
    wow what a surprise, your waxing lyrical about how much you hate Thrall without any constructive reasoning once again.

    The problem with people like you is if they so much as now mention Thrall in anything, you moan about it, even when he should be integral to the events happening in the story. You know what, he was a central hero in WC3, but we didn't hear the insipid whining from people like you about the characters in the story then.

    It has nothing to do with character development. All this is, is whats coming from players with a bug up there back end about a lore character being a central role in the story. Now they can't even give him development because of the pissy whiners in the game.

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    People want Thrall to die, even when this is his horde we're anot now fighting for, him who brought the horde together, and now him who's prepared to put his life on the line for the sake of his horde.

    Really, you people need a morality check.
    It's not about morality, at least not for me, I love thrall and I hate garrosh, I'm not necessarily saying I want Thrall to die, but if he did (depending on how it was done) I'd praise blizzard for writing something that made me feel emotion, I'd feel sad to see him go and anger towards those who killed him. I don't think we should be in a position where all the good characters are totally safe from harm because well, they are good, I don't think that's what you are saying but regardless, sometimes good characters dying can be good storytelling.

    It does depend rather heavily however on how it is handled.

  5. #65
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    So what your saying is, the lore is so shit these days the only way your feel anything is to kill off a main character?

    How long would that last? A day or so, and then what? MORE shit lore to follow.

    If they kill Thrall, it will be for the cheapness of the shock value, and if thats all they can do to thrill you, thats all your get.
    Last edited by Trassk; 2013-05-26 at 07:16 PM.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    So what your saying is, the lore is so shit these days the only way your feel anything is to kill of a main character?

    How long would that last? A day or so, and then what? MORE shit lore to follow.

    If they kill Thrall, it will be for a cheapness of the shock value, and if thats all they can do to thrill you, thats all your get.
    That's not what I said at all. I said it's not always a bad thing when a good character dies.

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Vellerix View Post
    It's not about morality, at least not for me, I love thrall and I hate garrosh, I'm not necessarily saying I want Thrall to die, but if he did (depending on how it was done) I'd praise blizzard for writing something that made me feel emotion, I'd feel sad to see him go and anger towards those who killed him. I don't think we should be in a position where all the good characters are totally safe from harm because well, they are good, I don't think that's what you are saying but regardless, sometimes good characters dying can be good storytelling.

    It does depend rather heavily however on how it is handled.
    Yeah, you see, Thrall dying would be, for me, the prime example of bad writing here. Why? Because Thrall said like 5 seconds ago "I'm going on a suicide mission to Orgrimmar, wish me luck, and Vol'Jin, make hentai fanfiction with my wife". Killing him now is the boring ass, logical thing to do. Very interesting story - a character went into a see and <dum DUM dum> he was wet.

    There can be many more shocking/interesting scenarios. Like Thrall going there and actually joining Garrosh in the campaign against Vol'Jin. You didn't see this coming, did you!

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post

    So, your either going to have to accept Garrosh is a bad guy and he lives to carry on doing bad guy stuff, or he dies a noble death.
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post

    bad guy
    "Just because you are "bad guy" does not mean you are bad guy."
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  9. #69
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    I had considered that Garrosh was a demon. After all, Kil'Jaeden is known as 'The Deceiver', and it's known he can take on almost any form (much like Dragons and their Human-esque forms). With the next expansion being hinted heavily as being Burning Legion based, this would make sense. Think about it;

    Imagine if Garrosh had succeeded in controlling the entire Horde into his way of thinking. We'd overrun and destroy the Alliance from pure rage. At this point, half the population of Azeroth has been annihilated, and the demon-controlled leader now gives the Burning Legion a massive army that's terrifying in both scope and danger.

    Garrosh has failed to do that though. However, the outcome could still have been splitting the Horde apart. This would weaken the entire force of those on Azeroth, making it ripe for an invasion by the Legion. Only the Alliance is left united. The Horde is easy to pick apart as each race now hates the others, and so they don't have the benefits the others brought (e.g. Blood Elves brought the strongest magic, Taurens brought the hardiest warriors, Orcs brought the most dangerous fighters, Undead brought the numbers, cannon fodder and a self-regenerative army, and Trolls brought the stealthiest infiltrators).

    The actual outcome; Only those following Garrosh are split from the rest of the Horde, and so the unit as a whole isn't significantly weakened. Rather, their strength is bolstered by Vol'jin surviving an assassination attempt, Thrall going through his training, Baine taking his fathers place and having a personal reason for hating Garrosh (even if it wasn't his fault, I still think he sees Garrosh as partly responsible), and Chen joining up with the Horde.

    It just makes sense that Garrosh is either the Deceiver himself, or is being influenced by him. He's power-mad, we know that already, but him being influenced by the legion, even if he didn't know it, would be such a fantastic bridge between the 2 expansions, something that I've not seen done so well before (e.g. KJ didn't hint at Wrath that heavily -- only the obscure legion-scourge reference was there, LK didn't hint at Cataclysm at all, and DW didn't hint at mists). By having it end on Demon-related note and opening the next chapter on that same note, it'd just be a perfect continuation between the 2 arcs.
    [...]

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    People want Thrall to die, even when this is his horde we're anot now fighting for, him who brought the horde together, and now him who's prepared to put his life on the line for the sake of his horde.

    Really, you people need a morality check.
    You need to take this beaten-to-death morality argument somewhere where it matters, and not over fictional characters. You remind me of the idiots who blame school shootings on Doom.

    On topic, I believe Fezzina has a pretty nice overview of what happens before the siege.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    I don't know whats wrong with you people in actually wanting to see heroes die. Its like you have no moral virtue and just get off on it.
    Heroes? What heroes are you talking about? Real heroes are ten/twenty five nonamed people who kill end bosses in raids, while those so-called heroes are building statues to themselves in the middle of world's end.
    OT: Friend, do not think it's personal, but your ending sucks almost as much as ME3's.

  12. #72
    What if they pull a Fable 3 and Garrosh is all like "yeah there's this super big bad coming and i did everything i did to build up an army to fight them off".

    Quote Originally Posted by Trassk View Post
    So what your saying is, the lore is so shit these days the only way your feel anything is to kill off a main character?

    How long would that last? A day or so, and then what? MORE shit lore to follow.

    If they kill Thrall, it will be for the cheapness of the shock value, and if thats all they can do to thrill you, thats all your get.
    You're mistaking lore for storytelling.

    The lore of Warcraft is, for the most part, perfectly fine; there are a couple holes, but other than that, fine. Killing Thrall wouldn't affect the lore in one way or another; people die. People don't kick up a stink about Uther or anyone else having died on a lore basis; they kick up a stink about how they died on a storytelling basis.
    The (main) stories that are being told are, for the most part, pretty rubbish, MoP included; they've been sloppy at best since TBC (and I'm mainly excluding vanilla because it didn't even have a single main plot thread). Killing Thrall wouldn't affect the quality of the stories being written, you're right, but it could serve as a good dramatic device to help make this one better. I'd rather 1 decent-ish story, 3 shit ones and a dead Thrall over 4 shit ones and a living Thrall (assuming that killing Thrall would fix the holes in MoP, which it won't).

    Quote Originally Posted by Synthaxx View Post
    stuff about demons
    I'm kinda skeptical about Garrosh being Kil'jaeden mostly because Garrosh is pretty damn rubbish at turning the Horde into a weapon to bludgeon the Alliance with. The Alliance only really turned the tables during the Second War because Gul'dan left the field to go get himself killed in the Tomb of Sargeras. Kil'jaeden would not want to put the current crisis on his resume.

    Blizzard said that Garrosh is acting of his own accord; he isn't corrupted, possessed, etc by anything. However, that doesn't mean his advisors aren't; I mean, Malkorok's name starts with Mal. Who else's name starts with Mal? THAT'S RIGHT, MAL'GANIS
    Last edited by LilSaihah; 2013-05-26 at 07:44 PM.
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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Okacz View Post
    Yeah, you see, Thrall dying would be, for me, the prime example of bad writing here. Why? Because Thrall said like 5 seconds ago "I'm going on a suicide mission to Orgrimmar, wish me luck, and Vol'Jin, make hentai fanfiction with my wife". Killing him now is the boring ass, logical thing to do. Very interesting story - a character went into a see and <dum DUM dum> he was wet.

    There can be many more shocking/interesting scenarios. Like Thrall going there and actually joining Garrosh in the campaign against Vol'Jin. You didn't see this coming, did you!
    I suppose it's subjective, like I said in my above posts, I'm not asking for Thrall to die, it's not what I want, even if some people read it as that, I'm simply saying I wouldn't think it to be a bad eventuality if it came to pass. It's so hard to argue what makes a good story because everybody has their own preferences as to what makes a good story and nobody should be looking down on one another because of their story preferences.

  14. #74
    I think it would be kinda cool if they could open up a whole other faction with garrosh running off. Don't think it would happen though and I don't think we would see any key people dieing off.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by l33t View Post
    Heroes? What heroes are you talking about?
    Probably the greatest hero in the 8+ years of WoW was Bolvar Fordragon. He gave his life so that the whole of the world could live free of the scourge.

    Thrall, if he were to die by Garrosh's hand at the beginning of 5.4 would have earned an end worthy of his deeds. He would finally die a hero, seeking for peace, not a Mary Jane who ruined Cataclysm.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Elim Garak View Post
    Gotta love wow's community...


    This is a thread about LORE. I'm tired of WoW's stupid lore. I want something new and different. This is something that will never happen in WoW.
    So I want it to end. So we all can move on to something new. Something less Thrallish, Alliancish, Draconish, Titanish.

    And yet I still play. Because honestly no one have done raids better than WoW as of now. And I like raiding.

    Is your mind blown already?
    It seems rather nonsensical and rude to interrupt a discussion about lore if you don't like lore.

    A:"Hey man"
    B:"Hey, what did you think of that baseball game last week?"
    A:"Oh it was great, that pitch during the fourth in-"
    C:"Hey guys, I hate baseball and I don't think it should exist as a sport. You know what's really fun? Basketball."

    See?

    Thrall is the biggest icon of Warcraft since WC3 (I mean Blizz has his statue in frot of their company building for fsake), so that would be kinnda bad move.
    Even more would be that if it did happen, it would just repeat the history with Duratan and Draka.
    I would argue that Arthas and Illidan were easily as iconic, probably more iconic, and certainly more popular. And frankly, Thrall should have been killed off a long time ago. I'd greatly enjoy it if Garrosh didn't die, he is an interesting character, and unique as a racial leader who is fine with waging war to make his own people powerful. I'll never understand why people expect tons of peace, and cooperation between factions. The game takes place in a Medieval/Fuedal era, war was fought all the time to make your own country/people more wealthy and secure. Sylvanas is the only other leader like that, but even she appears to only be interested in reclaiming the Lordaeron area.

    I see Garrosh's death this soon as a waste. I'd be quite happy to see him escape with some loyalists and begin rebuilding the Blackrock or even Fel Orc factions.
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  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Sigmar View Post
    Warcraft never had good lore. EVER. From day one it's been a lowbrow mass appeal fantasy setting for people too stupid to realize what good storytelling is.

    You're probably a Michael Bay fan too I bet.
    Warcraft III's story-telling while pretty childish, still had mature themes and was, to say the least, interesting and something that really got people into the Warcraft universe. WoW on the other hand has been ripping all that apart piece by piece since it's iteration.
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  18. #78
    What if Thrall goes to Org to try and talk to big daddy G and ends up getting corrupted/tranformed by Garrosh using the artifact from dark heart of pandaria

    and then he becomes a raid boss, at 5% or whatever % they wanted he begs you to kill him.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSaihah View Post
    I'm kinda skeptical about Garrosh being Kil'jaeden mostly because Garrosh is pretty damn rubbish at turning the Horde into a weapon to bludgeon the Alliance with. The Alliance only really turned the tables during the Second War because Gul'dan left the field to go get himself killed in the Tomb of Sargeras. Kil'jaeden would not want to put the current crisis on his resume.

    Blizzard said that Garrosh is acting of his own accord; he isn't corrupted, possessed, etc by anything. However, that doesn't mean his advisors aren't; I mean, Malkorok's name starts with Mal. Who else's name starts with Mal? THAT'S RIGHT, MAL'GANIS
    Good point. I did say 'influenced by' as a fallback, and it was meant to imply that it could be his advisors that are the demons or the ones that are being directly influenced by them and thus having an effect on Garrosh. I'd say that Malkorok is even more crazy than Garrosh. Everything he does seems to be purely violent.

    I still think having the legion involved and revealed at the end would be a great bridge (assuming that it is indeed). Mal'ganis was predicted for ICC if I recall as he said 'he'd be back', but never did return after the defeat in Northrend. Having him return now would seem a little odd but it would brush in nicely on both sides of him returning AND leading us to the next expansion (again, assuming next exp. is the legion).

    I do wonder if the dragon prince will reveal his true nature though. I've been sceptical since the beginning. Having him influencing players and being a pivotal character that's not yet had a major role in the expansion would be a good state of continuity if Garrosh is indeed being influenced by demons (for example, if the dragon had taken up sides with the legion). By using a dragon as opposed to a human, he can 'explain' the red eyes and not seem as suspicious, when the reality could run as deep as him being corrupted by the legion and told to influence the players to destroy the other side (as evidenced by the 5.1 quests). By also getting rid of the Thunder king, it makes the legion have one less potential enemy to deal with if they tried to invade.

    I just feel that the final fight will reveal a LOT of things to us that we should have seen all along as character (obviously as players we can speculate, but as characters in the game world, we can only assume the best from those that approach us, and only the most simple explanation makes sense when we talk about Garrosh -- again, that's only applying to characters and not to us as real people).

    One thing's for sure; They best no have touched Saurfang. That would just destroy the story. Not being seen since Northrend and a character no one wants to see killed off.
    [...]

  20. #80
    Since Pride will be the last head (Sha) we kill, the heroic-only encounter could be a fight against some visage of Y'Shaarj. I always liked the old gods the most and I would not mind if they brought back this dead one somehow

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