"Testing" something on PTR without actual players feedback - is not valid?

[AVPaul]

As you may know, Blizzard have "tested" 3rd spec on PTR and they've made a conclusion, that ingame action bar saver will be enough. But I think, that this is not a valid way to test something on public test realm, as their testers are not representing whole Wow community. For example they can be ortodoxal hardcores, oldfags or just never played three and more specs at once. So as ABS is perfectly working for me now, copypasting it into ingame UI won't make any sence. So what is this? Just another iteration in the endless loop of avoiding the simple truth - 3rd spec must be implemented?

What is your opinion?

[Anetulan]

I think what the data miners found on the PTR was a remnant of some internal testing. They may have wanted to see how it would work for themselves, perhaps from more a technical side than how it would work for the player.

Still...I want tri-spec.

[ablib]

As you may know, Blizzard have "tested" 3rd spec on PTR and they've made a conclusion, that ingame action bar saver will be enough. But I think, that this is not a valid way to test something on public test realm, as their testers are not representing whole Wow community. For example they can be ortodoxal hardcores, oldfags or just never played three and more specs at once. So as ABS is perfectly working for me now, copypasting it into ingame UI won't make any sence. So what is this? Just another iteration in the endless loop of avoiding the simple truth - 3rd spec must be implemented?

What is your opinion?

Some points:

1. The PTR (or the game for that matter) isn't a democracy where the voice of the whole community should be heard.

2. Blizzard releases content all the time, that people never get to test on the PTR.

3. What you think is a valid way to use their test realms is irrelevant.

4. And the last I heard, was that they haven't came to a conclusion.

[Flaks]

Some points:

1. The PTR (or the game for that matter) isn't a democracy where the voice of the whole community should be heard.

2. Blizzard releases content all the time, that people never get to test on the PTR.

3. What you think is a valid way to use their test realms is irrelevant.

4. And the last I heard, was that they haven't came to a conclusion.

I'm going to take this outside the scope of just tri-spec:

1. Accurate...but off: people on the PTR are just flat out ignored.

2. Wrong. Anything that isn't a heroic only or end boss is tested on the PTR/Beta.

3. What they say is the valid use of the test realm isn't what they actually use the test realm for. Like I said they flat out and repeatedly ignore player feedback. That issue with the role check for BGs that came up? It was reported on the PTR. As were hundreds if not thousands of other bugs/issues/imbalances that have constantly made it to live for years.

4. On tri-spec no they haven't. I honestly haven't seen it being tested on the PTR either so I'm not sure where OP's coming from.

[nazrakin]

Truth is that Blizzard does not rely on the PTR for balance testing; it is all about catching bugs/glitches that their internet teams may have missed. Its really not until a new expac alpha/beta do they become more open to community suggestion.

[ablib]

I'm going to take this outside the scope of just tri-spec:

2. Wrong. Anything that isn't a heroic only or end boss is tested on the PTR/Beta.

3. What they say is the valid use of the test realm isn't what they actually use the test realm for. Like I said they flat out and repeatedly ignore player feedback. That issue with the role check for BGs that came up? It was reported on the PTR. As were hundreds if not thousands of other bugs/issues/imbalances that have constantly made it to live for years.

4. On tri-spec no they haven't. I honestly haven't seen it being tested on the PTR either so I'm not sure where OP's coming from.

2. So by what you just said...that means I'm right? Which means you're wrong? Blizzard does release content all the time that never gets tested on the PTR, which includes heroic only, end bosses, and stuff they don't want to reveal because they don't want to spoil the story, such as scenarios or questlines.

3. Just because bugs make it to live that was previously reported on the PTR, doesn't mean feedback was ignored, it means they made a calculated decision that it was ok to ship the content bugged, with the intention to fix/hotfix/patch later, to get the content out faster.

4. The issue on tri-spec the OP is talking about is on the front page of MMO-C at the moment. The OP's feelings are hurt because Blizzard used the PTR to test something internally without the public getting a chance to test it.

[Rucati]

They can't really rely on player feedback in the middle of expansions to be honest.

Just look at the PvP burst thread, everybody gives 2-3 classes they think still have ridiculous burst, and by the end of the thread *every* class got mentioned at least a couple times. There are too many opinions, if you start taking feedback on what should/shouldn't be implemented you'll end up with people disagreeing on *literally* everything.

Personally, I don't see a need for tri-spec, completely useless feature in my opinion and would be a waste of their time to implement.

[ACES]

The in game ABS doesn't save key bindings per spec as I recall so for me that makes it useless.

[Kathranis]

They didn't test third spec on the PTR. MMO-Champion datamined some code regarding third specs from the PTR client.

Regarding bugs that slip through the PTR: Just because they aren't fixed doesn't mean Blizzard doesn't know about them. They fix bugs based on the priority of the bugs, and every time they find a new bug they assign it a priority. The higher priority bugs get fixed first. They have thousands upon thousands of tasks at any given time. I remember back during one of their GDC panels they actually listed how many bugs they have "in the queue" (so to speak) at any given time.

Bugfixing on a game as large as WoW is not always simple, and very rarely is fixing a bug as simple as finding it. Sometimes fixing one bug can even create several new ones.

[ablib]

They didn't test third spec on the PTR. MMO-Champion datamined some code regarding third specs from the PTR client.

Yes they did. It's on the front page right now.

[Deleted]

Well, they tested the public, so the name "public test realm" still does its job

Seriously, though: It was the best way to test it for them; they already knew players would want it, so they even explicitly told everyone it's NOT planned for live, but just for testing purposes.

[AVPaul]

Well, they tested the public, so the name "public test realm" still does its job

Seriously, though: It was the best way to test it for them; they already knew players would want it, so they even explicitly told everyone it's NOT planned for live, but just for testing purposes.

But we also can't trust their internal testers, as their opinion is affected by Blizzard's opinion and Blizzard is interested in not implementing 3rd spec. It just looks like another try to delay inevitable, by reporting, that problem is solved via copypasting ABS, as it happened with removing PVP specs from game.

[Flaks]

2. So by what you just said...that means I'm right? Which means you're wrong? Blizzard does release content all the time that never gets tested on the PTR, which includes heroic only, end bosses, and stuff they don't want to reveal because they don't want to spoil the story, such as scenarios or questlines.

3. Just because bugs make it to live that was previously reported on the PTR, doesn't mean feedback was ignored, it means they made a calculated decision that it was ok to ship the content bugged, with the intention to fix/hotfix/patch later, to get the content out faster.

4. The issue on tri-spec the OP is talking about is on the front page of MMO-C at the moment. The OP's feelings are hurt because Blizzard used the PTR to test something internally without the public getting a chance to test it.

2. No, scenarios and questlines and raids and new bgs and UI changes etc. etc. etc. ALL OF IT is tested except for heroic only/end bosses (as in literally only 2 bosses) aren't tested on the PTR.

3. When they flat out say "we didn't notice this bug on the PTR due to too little testing" and there's weeks old threads on the PTR forums about those same bugs, it's called IGNORING FEEDBACK.

3. It isn't testing internally if it's on the PTR. And it wasn't ever on the PTR. And the PTR is public which means if it WAS on the PTR then it would have been tested publicly.