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  1. #41
    On the point of feather and whatnot, going into next tier. We aren't even the worst of the situations. Stuff like Rune of Re-origination and Unerring Vision basically scale into the next infinite expansions. Those will likely get nerfed at some point, and I'd imagine ours probably will as well, but ours isn't going be good for as indefinite amount of time.

    DST 2.0?

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendenbarr View Post
    Well, let's look at the average hit in 541 gear. The reason I'm not taking DPET is because it includes KM procs, and the problem with spamming obit as DW frost is that, not only do you gain 0 extra KM procs from the bonus rune regen speed, you also LOSE KM procs to oblit usage that would of otherwise gone to FS. Ignoring that for the time being:

    FS: 120134
    HB: 104633
    OB: 83346

    Each obliterate in place of a HB (speaking from a GCD point of view, and assuming infinite runes) costs 21287 damage. The gain would be an additional 12 runic generated per GCD. An extra FS would be used at the cost of an obliterate. The gain would be 36788 damage. 12/20 (60%) of a FS is therefore a gain of 22073 damage, a pitiful 800 over the loss from using oblit. I highly doubt that the extra km procs wasted on oblit would not account for more than that, so it seems to be a loss even with infinite runes. It's surprisingly close though.
    you have per obli a 45% chance for a rime proc, wich equals 45% hb dmg per obli. for this numbers, a obli would deal 83346+104633*0,45 = ~130431 dmg.
    on the other side, you cant use the unholy rune for dnd wich is arround 60k dmg. as long as you have the unholy rune, dnd is on cd and you have blood plaque is on the boss, obli is definitely a dps gain.
    yes, you could lose a km proc to a obli, but you have so much of them, it doesnt really matter. overall you dont hit obli so much, because the case where you can do it happens like once every 30sec.

  3. #43
    Question: How do I properly build up resources to get the most out of DRW?
    Raid Leading - it's the next best thing to playing every class and spec, you just can't push the buttons or move the mouse. That's why they die.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Hafizah View Post
    you have per obli a 45% chance for a rime proc, wich equals 45% hb dmg per obli. for this numbers, a obli would deal 83346+104633*0,45 = ~130431 dmg.
    on the other side, you cant use the unholy rune for dnd wich is arround 60k dmg. as long as you have the unholy rune, dnd is on cd and you have blood plaque is on the boss, obli is definitely a dps gain.
    yes, you could lose a km proc to a obli, but you have so much of them, it doesnt really matter. overall you dont hit obli so much, because the case where you can do it happens like once every 30sec.
    Yes, oblit procs rime, but the question posed was "say we stop using runes on HB and use them on oblit instead when we have the tier set active" If we are not using RUNES on HB, then we will not be able to use rime procs either, and this in that particular case, the value of rime can be ignored.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ticktac View Post
    Question: How do I properly build up resources to get the most out of DRW?
    DRW can be used as both a defensive and an offensive CD. Defensive-wise, you get the most out of it by using it before a long string of melee damage, or pairing it with army for less damage taken.

    Offensive-wise, you can't really bank much runic due to it's high cost of 60(going away in 5.4!), but you can bank a 2-set of DSs, which slam pretty hard, and an outbreak, for double diseases. If you want to really bring the pain, popping ERW right after the first 2 DSs let's you machine gun off 4 DS and 3 RS, which fills up most of DRW and does a massive amount of damage, but ERW can be useful as a defensive as well. If ERW is on CD or you need it for something else, simply use DS and RS as much as possible, apply diseases, and otherwise follow your normal rotation.
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  5. #45
    Hey Mendenbarr, been a reader of yours for a while now, and was wondering about something you wrote on your blog. As you showed there, virtually no one in the world uses rolling blood as Dw frost. Why is that? You said it's because BB is not incorporated in the rotation - sure. But with the amount of fights this expansion where switching targets and frequent waves of many adds are quite common, i find that 1.5 min cd on UB is far from cutting it, so you throw in pestilences..... which cost 1 blood rune.

    With that in mind, am i nuts for advocating to always take Rolling Blood, as it has no CD and has the benefit of doing (some) dps? Am i missing something blatantly obvious? That one HB isn't going to outweigh the plague desease dmg on all the adds + additional dmg from having both up for the next HB will it?

    We're progressing on Tortos 10HC atm and that fight just makes it that much more obvious to me, how much better is than UB.
    The same can be said to varying degrees for Horridon, Council, Chi-Cken, Primo, and Leishen?

  6. #46
    Basically, the gain from RB as frost is 3 BBs every 1.5 minute. You would be spreading diseases with pestilence anyway, should the fight benefit from that, and RB simply lets you BB instead, every 30 seconds to keep diseases up. For me, without raid buffs, BB hits for 9k in 538 ilevel. It deals 50% more damage to targets inflicted with a disease, and everything should always be inflicted with FF, so let's bump that up to 14k. 3 times every 1.5 mins makes it 42k (per target)

    Compare this to HB, which is about 100k on the main target, and 50k on every other target. That one HB you save from applying diseases with UB. (or the 3 you save from PL, which is technically the best option) is worth far more damage than the blood boils. RB value only goes down as you get periods with no adds; while you're not gaining bonus damage from RB with no adds up, the CD on UB is still ticking.
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  7. #47
    Do you think you could add a list to some trinket pair combos for each specc? I think it'd stop questions like "is trinket X better than Y for festerblight or only for normal UH"

  8. #48
    Festerblight is Feather > 541/535 rage > shadopan > lower ilevel rage > everything else
    Unholy is at http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t131138-...nd_you:_Part_2
    DW and 2-hand trinkets can be found at http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t132171-...here/#Trinkets
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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendenbarr View Post
    Festerblight is Feather > 541/535 rage > shadopan > lower ilevel rage > everything else
    Unholy is at http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t131138-...nd_you:_Part_2
    DW and 2-hand trinkets can be found at http://elitistjerks.com/f72/t132171-...here/#Trinkets
    Where does HM Spark Fit in? I know normal is on the bottom of the list, but right now I've been running HM Feather 2/2 + normal gaze 0/2. I do have a HM Spark 2/2, should I be using both HMS or will the gaze still >.

    Sorry if im missing the obvious.

    Thanks.

  10. #50
    Anything that isn't feather, rage, or shadopan has next to no benefit for the FB play-style, and is ranked the same as unholy.

    Edit: Gaze is pretty crappy either way. If you don't want to grab the VP trinket, just run with spark, but know it only boosts unholy, not FB.
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  11. #51
    Looking for advice to assist me as I gear up my Death Knight. I recently converted from a Protection Paladin to a Blood DK. I've been reading a lot about Blood DK's and would like a little guidance. I'm in a 10 man Guild and we casually work our way through normal mode content. With that in mind I lean more towards a DPS Tanking build and try to keep my hit and expertise as close to 7.5% as possible. So long as my Healers are comfortable I don't worry to much about Stamina as I do the benefits of Mastery. I would feel uncomfortable right now going towards a Haste build like I see suggested on forums.

    Am I selling myself short by not regemming for Haste instead of Mastery?

    Also, out of the Shado-Pan Assault Rep Trinkets what's my best option if I were still pairing it with Lao-Chin's Liquid Courage

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  12. #52
    Mastery is the best survival option, by far. It improves your ability to take damage and control bursts much more than any other stat, but it does nothing for damage. If you truly are gearing towards a DPS Tanking build, you are sacrificing a lot of damage by gearing towards mastery. That being said, I gear towards mastery personally. Haste and crit are both very powerful DPS stats for blood, (scaling well with vengeance), and haste has the added benefit of offering about 20% of the survival of mastery (from more death strikes). Depending on the content you are doing, you can either afford to give up survival for damage, or you can't.

    As far as trinkets go, hell if I know what good tanking trinkets are. I suggest looking for an answer at http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...5-3-DK-Tanking, and if you can't find one, asking there.
    Best of luck!
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  13. #53
    Not sure if too specific for your thread, but Ill post here first anyway.

    Is horridan (normal or HM) supposed to be a fight in our favor, or against? As a fester/unholy?
    I seem to get no love here, and am wondering if I'm superbly failing or its just the mechanics themselves.
    I know without my logs you cant point me to specific areas I might need to work on, but a simplified answer will do.
    (Rough ilvl 530 and I average 130-155k. I feel this is extremely low)

    Thanks.

  14. #54
    Horridon is not super unholy friendly, but it's pretty unholy friendly. I would not advise running festerblight on it, but RB and disease spreading to all of the adds that come out, combined with proper DnD usage should do some pretty serious damage. Mix in some blood boils with SSs depending on how many adds are up, and when P2 starts, rip into the boss with army and CDs. You won't be able to compete with the padding mofos who tunnel the boss, but you'll be contributing more to the fight and should still do great damage.
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  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Mendenbarr View Post
    Horridon is not super unholy friendly, but it's pretty unholy friendly. I would not advise running festerblight on it, but RB and disease spreading to all of the adds that come out, combined with proper DnD usage should do some pretty serious damage. Mix in some blood boils with SSs depending on how many adds are up, and when P2 starts, rip into the boss with army and CDs. You won't be able to compete with the padding mofos who tunnel the boss, but you'll be contributing more to the fight and should still do great damage.
    I would disagree, I think Unholy is very good on Horridon if you play well. Your diseases will be ticking on the boss the entire fight, and you can essentially play with 4 Death 2 Unholy until wallsmashes and P2. Even with only 1-2 adds alive Blood Boiling or Festering Strike will be a better use of runes than SS in the long run as it allows you to keep 4 Death Runes. (2xBB or 1xFS>1xBB+1xIT).

    Unholy target swapping is also a breeze when you have some spare time between adds as you can just tab to the boss and do work.

    Our kills however, are getting shorter and shorter so we have to almost focus 100% on adds by the 3rd door in order to not push the boss early.

    Unholy doesn't really have any BAD fights this tier however it's stronger on a few fights with sustained AoE or 80%+ single target. (Durumu, Council, Ra-den...cont)

  16. #56
    I could have worded it better, but that's what I meant about "pretty" unholy friendly. If you look at a class like boomkin or spriest or warlocks putting DoTs on a ton of targets on a fight like horridon, and it proccing a ton of abilities for them, that's super friendly.
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  17. #57
    Hello Mendenbarr, I have recently rerolled Frost DK using 2 hander. I am having problems with my dps so I have come back to "Frost DK 101" so to speak and have a concern I don't know if anyone else have experienced or is it just me. I am finding KM proccing just as I hit FS so it gets wasted. Should I be pausing slightly to see if a KM will proc before using FS? Would a swing timer help me? Also should I use FS during KM if I don't have the runes for OB or should I wait for the rune?

  18. #58
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    If you do not use a swing timer, pausing does not help you. The loss of awareness and GCDs usually isn't worth the wait though. Unless you are lacking in haste and have lots of dry patches it's not worth waiting for procs.

    So basically: Ignore KM procs.

  19. #59
    Short answer:
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyanmaru View Post
    Ignore KM procs.
    Long answer:
    This issue, whether or not to hold off on using km procs in order to shift more of them over from FS to oblit received a lot of attention and discussion in 5.0-5.1. Euliat provided a fantastic mathematical analysis and rundown (which is quite a good read), and you can find it here.
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  20. #60
    Hello Mendenbarr, and got to give you props for all the nice work you are doing!

    DnD if i put it down at 10 stacks of feather does it tick with higher damage on targets or does it aswell update dynamically?

    "I'm putting up weaker diseases out of necessity, but, for example, if there is still a duration of 15-20seconds on the weaker diseases and you have the shado-pan trinket proc as well as a couple of stacks of primordius trinket (my current set up), would it be worth using a PS to put up these stronger diseases? I'd say yes, but wouldn't mind some confirmation on it?" asks splinternz from fix my dps thread cause im wondering this aswell.

    "Second question relates to maintaining these stronger diseases. Festerblight uses FeS to setup lengthy ones, but for a standard playstyle again, is it beneficial to use a FeS a couple of times with death runes if the diseases look like they may fall off before you can refresh with similar strength diseases (i.e. when Shado-Pan is back off cd)?" asks splinternz from fix my dps thread cause im wondering this aswell.

    And i have to ask aswell do u think we will recive any buffs for 5.4? will blizz nerf feather since i reckon it will be bis through 5.4 if nothing similar drops from seige of ogr?
    Last edited by Rambojantan; 2013-06-25 at 03:32 PM.

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