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  1. #1

    Are DK tanks OP prepatch? Or just SoO undertuned?

    I joined a heroic (previously normal) group for SoO. The group was terrible (yay for the new lfg tool!). But we got to protectors, and basically the whole group wiped on the first rook transition, apart from me.

    I was able to solo tank both rook and he, without a healer for over 2 mins, and I didn't go below 50% HP (at which point the RL was yelling at me to wipe).

    What is other DK tanks' experience so far with the patch?

  2. #2
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    I switched in a heroic run (trying to get a high lockout for my guild's team this Thursday) to tank and I watched DS heal me for 70% or more of my health when I was about to die.



  3. #3
    How is blood playing post patch? I'm aiming to go tank full time in WoD so want to get some practice in before the expansion. I'll probably quite rusty, so would be good to gauge common thoughts before I get home.

    Also what 75 talent are people taking? I thought Death Pact would again be standard. Is Death Siphon now better?

  4. #4
    Very overpowered in current gear. Do not expect it to be this way in WoD. Troxism had a great post on this a week or so ago but I don't have the link unfortunately. DKs with higher ilvl than content is tuned for are almost always op. Other tanks active mitigation is percentage based while ours is all about gear now. With death strikes being so powerful with this gear, bone shield is up longer which just makes us even better.

    For example, last night we did mythic up through Thok before raid end. On all 11 boss kills I only took about 10 mil healing from our healers. Our monk tank took over 30 mil healing from healers in that same time.

    Tl;dr - Death strike is op when overgearing content.

  5. #5
    lol @ the "DK Tanks left behind" thread from frontpage
    Capitalism, Ho!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    lol @ the "DK Tanks left behind" thread from frontpage
    haha. No shit. The perfect example of "sky is falling" hyperbole. Blizz did mention that some raid encounters might actually be easier under the new structure.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Eetabee View Post
    Very overpowered in current gear. Do not expect it to be this way in WoD. Troxism had a great post on this a week or so ago but I don't have the link unfortunately. DKs with higher ilvl than content is tuned for are almost always op. Other tanks active mitigation is percentage based while ours is all about gear now. With death strikes being so powerful with this gear, bone shield is up longer which just makes us even better.

    For example, last night we did mythic up through Thok before raid end. On all 11 boss kills I only took about 10 mil healing from our healers. Our monk tank took over 30 mil healing from healers in that same time.

    Tl;dr - Death strike is op when overgearing content.
    Pretty much a good summary of my post. I'll be honest, if DK wasn't horribly OP at 90 in this kind of gear (588 gear is COMPLETELY, massively outgearing Mythic SoO), that would actually indicate a tuning problem for 100. I won't repeat the whole massively long post here, but basically it won't be like this at 100. The reason is (and you can even see this at 90 as you are COMPLETELY resolve capped ATM) that Resolve has a cap + heavy DR, meaning you are almost completely reliant on gear scaling for Mythic content as a DK unlike other tanks who are less dependant on Resolve as their mitigation is not completely based around healing.

    On top of this, the way Death Strike scales has a lot of multipliers. Basically, your base heal is affected by AP, which is affected by STR and Bonus Armour, which is then multiplied by Mastery % AP, and then multiplied AGAIN by Mastery Blood Shield %, and then multiplied AGAIN by Resolve %, and the STR is also multiplied by Fallen Crusader, increased by trinket procs, and Kings buff.

    To give one example why it won't be like this; at 90 you get about 40-50% AP and 80-100% Blood Shield from Mastery on Death Strike. At 100 it will be more like 15-20% AP and 30-40% Blood shield until you are in full Mythic gear (which by definition won't happen on progression). Now, on the flip side, Resolve won't literally just sit at cap on every boss at 100, but the point is your multipliers won't be as strong. Your DS healing doesn't actually go up very much from 90 to 100, but your Max HP and Boss Damage goes up a lot, because of amount of rating per 1% going up massively, and even new gear won't make that up that difference until the 2nd or 3rd tier of WoD.

    TLDR: DK being OP at 90 in 588 gear SHOULD be happening with the way things work ATM. It's a really broken system overall, and you are seeing one end of the brokeness. On the flip side until you get geared expect to have some issues at 100 unless they overtune DK to compensate for being so gear reliant. Having said that, people who think the sky is falling without even having seen anything should calm down. It might end being 100% fine if they find the perfect tuning middle ground.

    Edit: It's actually interesting, because if you look around, there are Blood DKs complaining about being squishy as hell post patch, and all of them are in weaker gear (550-560); only further underscores this point.
    Last edited by Troxism; 2014-10-15 at 08:06 PM.
    I play Blood DK for Duality of Zul'jin; in my spare time I also answer help tickets and write articles on www.sentrytotem.com

    Feel free to ask me for help regarding to Blood DK play

  8. #8
    It was stated well above, but to put extra emphasis on the edit, gear is so important that going up 20-ilvls can make you go from feeling squishier than pre-patch to tougher than pre-patch. Sadly you won't be getting a full set of end-raid gear the moment you ding 100 in WoD, which is why there's actually room for concern. Granted the whole sky is falling attitude is silly to begin with, but so is ignoring the facts in front of your face to laugh at the sky is falling people.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Saxtorph View Post
    haha. No shit. The perfect example of "sky is falling" hyperbole. Blizz did mention that some raid encounters might actually be easier under the new structure.
    No it's not a good example, because the current raid tier and our current item levels are simply not the best yardstick here. I play beta and blood looks completely different there, especially compared to prot warri and pally.

  10. #10
    I am fine with DKs being on par at 100. At this point in SoO in my 575 gear, I can basically spam DS/DC every gcd, which takes away from the whole blood DK playstyle IMO.

    If they make it so that we actually have to try to stay alive (apart from just hitting our x cooldown for a mechanic) as a DK, I would much prefer it over current playstyle.

    Cheers folks.

  11. #11
    I never EVER seen myself heal for so much from a single death strike. I almost question myself if I even need take Death Pact
    Nyaaaa~

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Fincher View Post
    lol @ the "DK Tanks left behind" thread from frontpage
    I made that post and I am still correct. This is not WoD. This is still mists with different tuning than last week. Yes we are strong but that's because we are in content that is weaker than us at this point. Once we hit 100 and are in content that is made for us, we will be the weaker, less mobile tank. That's not an argument I am trying to make, that's a fact friend.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    Anyone else enjoying DK tanking? I'm not. I've tanked as a DK since the class existed and I am not enjoying it now. I don't like DC instead of RS. I don't like BB instead of HS. I get the mechanics changes but I feel like a flimsy piece of paper instead of a hulking, death-defying blood machine.



  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Darsithis View Post
    Anyone else enjoying DK tanking? I'm not. I've tanked as a DK since the class existed and I am not enjoying it now. I don't like DC instead of RS. I don't like BB instead of HS. I get the mechanics changes but I feel like a flimsy piece of paper instead of a hulking, death-defying blood machine.
    i like switch to DC and somewhat (not entirely) switch to BB.

    I don't like current rune tap and somewhat don't like DS
    Quote Originally Posted by warcraftmew View Post
    This is what a blizz blue said about charge and also they are putting pummel and disrupting shout on the same DR seriously blizzard its hard enough as a warrior to beat casters [...]
    in patch 5.4...

  15. #15
    I'm enjoying it. Death coil gives us something to do when mobs are out of range (ex Thok kiting phase) that hits for decent damage and blood boil is just a better heart strike. I guess I'm not big into aesthetics and stuff so to me it's all about how it plays and it plays mostly the same. Rune tap change is awesome. Down time is uncomfortable but it'll get better later in the expansion. Less buttons for me to worry about is more time I can spend paying attention to the fights.

    That said, if there are ever mobs we are not supposed to damage, we will be screwed since BB hits and spreads diseases automatically...

  16. #16
    Death Coils are fun, but getting time to adjust, over Rune Strikes. Blood Boiling bang getting annoying after a while though.

  17. #17
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    I'm getting more used to it, though I have to remember to stop hitting HoR and to keep up my BS. They changed it back from every other hit so in AoE situations my shield vanishes in moments it seems. Unless it's a bug.



  18. #18
    I really like the change to death coil, although the name of the spell should change when we are blood. I like have a ranged ability in blood.

    The only issue I have is that we are 100% aoe with blood boil. Why do we have to have a core ability that we can't not use be aoe?

  19. #19
    Did a full Mythic SoO clear yesterday, and it's honestly ridiculous how good blood dks are prepatch.
    I was competing top 3 on AoE fights with new blood boil, was pretty much immortal ( took the least damage out of 20 on heroic sha of pride, boss could not break my blood shield).

    So i can't argue over the fact i'm enjoying the prepatch .

  20. #20
    Super Moderator Darsithis's Avatar
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    We are OP. I soloed the end of both Thokk and Blackfuse after everyone died



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