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  1. #1

    2H Frost in WoD: Worse than ever?

    Let me preface this by saying that I play Unholy / DW Frost. I enjoyed the 2H playstyle until about halfway through MoP when I finally realized DW Frost > 2H Frost.

    What I don't understand is how 2H is SO terrible. It seems to me that 2H was Blizzard's intended subspec for Frost. Hence when you eat a savage feast, you are given Haste instead of Mastery. Also the reason the class trinket synergizes with Obliterate and is by far BiS for 2H Frost.

    My guild is working on Mythic Archy and I recently obtained a MWF 746 Maul of Tyranny so I thought to myself, "I've got all this mythic haste/multi gear laying around and a HWF socketed class trinket. Maybe 2H Frost isn't as terrible as people think because it's under-represented in parses". So I put all my haste gear on with my gnarly 746 blade and tried it out at the beginning of the night on Archy progression.

    It was absolutely horrid. The spec is *supposed* to be single target burst. I was easily last on damage, even on attempts where we wiped before all the adds came out. I would have really fallen behind at that point lol.

    How can it be this bad? I thought the addition of multistrike helped alleviate the "bad stats/scaling" issues?

    One thing I've noticed that I believe sets Unholy apart from Frost, is the 100 talents syngergize with Unholy a LOT better. The trinkets, too, even.

    I'm excited that the subspecs are being done away with in Legion and look forward to the new and hopefully improved design for Frost, but the next 4 months sure are going to be miserable being forced to play Unholy. If I have to play another week of dot management, pet management, or BoS setup, I'm going to cut myself. Long tier is long.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome Kraeth's Avatar
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    2H frost is like you experienced just rubbish. It's in no way viable. UH is just way better especially on M Archy.

    DW frost is alright as well, but 2h frost is just complete trash. Never go 2h frost.

    2h frost is just completely dependent on weapon damage. It scales kinda ok with haste but beyond that mastery, crit etc are poor. While DW gets a lot out of mastery.
    Last edited by Kraeth; 2016-05-07 at 01:42 PM.

  3. #3
    Blizz doesn't really want to fix it either, better to let it be barely played when Legion arrives and forces people to dual wield.
    Kind of like their intention behind the Demonology nerf.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Sixnalia View Post
    Blizz doesn't really want to fix it either, better to let it be barely played when Legion arrives and forces people to dual wield.
    Kind of like their intention behind the Demonology nerf.
    Still always irks me they let the spec rot this Expac for 1.5 Tiers, did not design an appropriate attunement stat, did not design any attunement stat effect (Necrosis), did not design an appropriate Class trinket, Im talking about for Frost.

    They told Demo locks the spec was not intended to work after BRF going into HFC (though that didnt pan out lol). But for Frost they litterally let it languish after week 3 of Highmaul. If you raided Mythic this entire Expac as a DPS DK you have litterally only had 1 spec to play.

  5. #5
    ^ That's the damn truth. While many people on the mmoc forums prefer Unholy, many others do not. I don't mind Unholy, it's a decent offspec and during fights like mythic gorefiend and mythic xhul, it's enjoyable to spread necroplague to everything and dump on meters. However, I MUCH rather play Frost. The fantasy of the spec appeals to me, the fast paced game play, everything about it is enjoyable and it hasn't been even half decent at all this xpac. Right out of the gates, Blood Boil being OP made Unholy the spec to raid as. Then Necroplague took over for BRF, and BoS for HFC. At no point, other than the first week (before nerfs) has Frost been ok. It gets really old. I tell myself at the end of the last few xpacs that I wouldn't play a DK in the next xpac, but I keep going back in hopes that they fixed it.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Hellborne87 View Post
    ^ That's the damn truth. While many people on the mmoc forums prefer Unholy, many others do not. I don't mind Unholy, it's a decent offspec and during fights like mythic gorefiend and mythic xhul, it's enjoyable to spread necroplague to everything and dump on meters. However, I MUCH rather play Frost. The fantasy of the spec appeals to me, the fast paced game play, everything about it is enjoyable and it hasn't been even half decent at all this xpac. Right out of the gates, Blood Boil being OP made Unholy the spec to raid as. Then Necroplague took over for BRF, and BoS for HFC. At no point, other than the first week (before nerfs) has Frost been ok. It gets really old. I tell myself at the end of the last few xpacs that I wouldn't play a DK in the next xpac, but I keep going back in hopes that they fixed it.
    OK = OP right?

    Frost was OP during the first week of HFC.

  7. #7
    6.2 Patch notes for frost

    Frost
    Frost Strike now deals 20% more damage.

    Howling Blast now deals 25% more damage and deals full damage to other enemies within range.

    Might of the Frozen Wastes now increases Frost Strike's damage by 100% (up from 50%) while dual-wielding.

    Obliterate damage has increased by 20%, but deals only 80% of normal damage against player-controlled targets.

    This would have put Frost squarely as the best Single target DPS Spec for DKs on HFC release and pretty much the strongest DPS while gearing up.
    however if the the bolded buff had remained in place Frost would remian today the best Single target spec for DKs while unholy would be better cleave and AoE.

    If you were too Double the dmg of the best Single target Frost DPS parses it would be slightly lower then Unholy is right now. That Frozen might buff which was taken away was not equal too doubling Frosts DPS.

    so yes 6.2 Frost would have been OP on progression and balanced on farm, its a funny thing how scaling works.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Baddok21 View Post
    If you raided Mythic this entire Expac as a DPS DK you have litterally only had 1 spec to play.
    Fingers crossed this doesn't happen again in Legion.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Sixnalia View Post
    Blizz doesn't really want to fix it either, better to let it be barely played when Legion arrives and forces people to dual wield.
    Kind of like their intention behind the Demonology nerf.
    it's dual wield, but it's basically the 2h frost rotation

  10. #10

    Horde

    Quote Originally Posted by Hellborne87 View Post
    Let me preface this by saying that I play Unholy / DW Frost. I enjoyed the 2H playstyle until about halfway through MoP when I finally realized DW Frost > 2H Frost.

    What I don't understand is how 2H is SO terrible. It seems to me that 2H was Blizzard's intended subspec for Frost. Hence when you eat a savage feast, you are given Haste instead of Mastery. Also the reason the class trinket synergizes with Obliterate and is by far BiS for 2H Frost.

    My guild is working on Mythic Archy and I recently obtained a MWF 746 Maul of Tyranny so I thought to myself, "I've got all this mythic haste/multi gear laying around and a HWF socketed class trinket. Maybe 2H Frost isn't as terrible as people think because it's under-represented in parses". So I put all my haste gear on with my gnarly 746 blade and tried it out at the beginning of the night on Archy progression.

    It was absolutely horrid. The spec is *supposed* to be single target burst. I was easily last on damage, even on attempts where we wiped before all the adds came out. I would have really fallen behind at that point lol.

    How can it be this bad? I thought the addition of multistrike helped alleviate the "bad stats/scaling" issues?

    One thing I've noticed that I believe sets Unholy apart from Frost, is the 100 talents syngergize with Unholy a LOT better. The trinkets, too, even.

    I'm excited that the subspecs are being done away with in Legion and look forward to the new and hopefully improved design for Frost, but the next 4 months sure are going to be miserable being forced to play Unholy. If I have to play another week of dot management, pet management, or BoS setup, I'm going to cut myself. Long tier is long.
    TLDR

    I play 2H Frost for fun in H 5 mans. Its fun to pop 3x OBs with M Vial, ERW, and 3 more OBs!
    business business number numbers!

    play for fun. in raid do it if you are bored wiping for 3.5 hour- just to see! I did it on M Manny for shits ang giggles and that attempt we saw sub 20%.... whoops lol

    few weeks ago someone posted 2H in UH presence with M Vial is awesome for Iron Reaver kills under 90 seconds. I can concur, it is!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Baddok21 View Post
    6.2 Patch notes for frost

    Frost
    Frost Strike now deals 20% more damage.

    Howling Blast now deals 25% more damage and deals full damage to other enemies within range.

    Might of the Frozen Wastes now increases Frost Strike's damage by 100% (up from 50%) while dual-wielding.

    Obliterate damage has increased by 20%, but deals only 80% of normal damage against player-controlled targets.

    This would have put Frost squarely as the best Single target DPS Spec for DKs on HFC release and pretty much the strongest DPS while gearing up.
    however if the the bolded buff had remained in place Frost would remian today the best Single target spec for DKs while unholy would be better cleave and AoE.

    If you were too Double the dmg of the best Single target Frost DPS parses it would be slightly lower then Unholy is right now. That Frozen might buff which was taken away was not equal too doubling Frosts DPS.

    so yes 6.2 Frost would have been OP on progression and balanced on farm, its a funny thing how scaling works.

    I'm pretty sure the Might of the Frozen Wastes buff was never took out.

    It was FS, OB and HB that got gutted week 1.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Antenora View Post
    I'm pretty sure the Might of the Frozen Wastes buff was never took out.

    It was FS, OB and HB that got gutted week 1.
    you would be wrong

    Frozen wastes only buffs frost strike by 50% down from 100%

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Antenora View Post
    OK = OP right?

    Frost was OP during the first week of HFC.
    So was Feral...what's your point? With how bad frost scales it needed to be OP to start....imagine if they didn't nerf it....It would still be a pretty good spec instead of a dumpster spec...however it wouldn't be beating rogues, warlocks, or mages.
    Last edited by RuneDK; 2016-05-10 at 12:58 AM.
    Rune - looking for a higher end guild

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Antenora View Post
    OK = OP right?

    Frost was OP during the first week of HFC.
    And your point? Everyone who knows anything about frost is that it scales poorly. Yeah it was good for ONE week, but like anything, blizzard overreacts so they overnerfed it into oblivion. It's been garbage pretty much the whole expansion. The numbers from BRF and now with HFC are outrageous. I doubt it would've lasted "OP" once people started gearing.

  15. #15
    Ugh, I suck at UH. I wish Frost was viable.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by pmgbro View Post
    And your point? Everyone who knows anything about frost is that it scales poorly. Yeah it was good for ONE week, but like anything, blizzard overreacts so they overnerfed it into oblivion. It's been garbage pretty much the whole expansion. The numbers from BRF and now with HFC are outrageous. I doubt it would've lasted "OP" once people started gearing.
    Being overpowered doesn't mean good.

    All people can do really is hope they fix the scaling.


    Quote Originally Posted by Mirem View Post
    Ugh, I suck at UH. I wish Frost was viable.

    You can play Frost but just don't expect to be high on the charts.


    Quote Originally Posted by Baddok21 View Post
    you would be wrong

    Frozen wastes only buffs frost strike by 50% down from 100%
    Oh? My mistake then :>

  17. #17
    I do miss 2h Frost. I was 2H Blood DPS back in the day. Then Cata came and I've been 2h Frost until finally making the switch to DW. My numbers are better, but I was to wield a giant 2her. And I abhor Unholy.

  18. #18
    Mechagnome Kraeth's Avatar
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    Might just want to get comfortable with the new frost. It actually plays almost like the 'old' 2h frost. Since DW frost played exactly like 2h in Cata, but 2h sucked so.

  19. #19
    Titan Chickat's Avatar
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    I dislike the dual wield playstyle so I go 2h, but the most I ever do is normal raids, so it hardly matters.
    Intel 6600k at 4.4ghz, 8gb DDR4 Ram @2400mhz, R9 380X, 500W EVGA 80+Bronze PSU, Corsair 200R case, Seagate 1tb Hyrbird HDD.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Vichan View Post
    it's dual wield, but it's basically the 2h frost rotation
    whaaaat not at all! you... don't use Obliterate ever as DW. for 2H its a big part of the rotation. only time you ever use Oblit as DW is if you get your free oblit/icy touch and you should be using the icy touch for a dispel


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